John's Blue Bathrobe....

Ames · Jun 27, 2007

20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And when you
21 woke up, where was John?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: He was up already.
23 He had gotten up, I think he was in the
24 bathroom.
25 TOM HANEY: And his bathroom --
0014
1 okay.
2 Did you see him or hear him at that
3 time?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think I saw
5 him. I think I heard his shower on.

<SNIPPED>

21 PATSY RAMSEY: That's John's study,
22 back --
23 TRIP DeMUTH: To the right?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Where you turn
25 right, uh-hum.
0303
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you know what this
2 is? It's hard to see, in the back lower corner?
3 Does that look like his bathrobe?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Looks
5 like a sweater or something.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would it be unusual
7 for John to put his bathrobe down on the floor
8 in that area?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Because he
10 usually hangs it up in his bathroom. Unless,
11 you know, he was starting to put it on when I
12 screamed for him and he dropped it or something.

According to the houseplans...the study was on the first floor....John's bathroom is on the third floor...so, how did John drop the robe onto the floor of the study, when he was in his bathroom, getting out of the shower, when Patsy yelled for him????

http://crimeshots.com/RamseyFloor.html

UKGuy · Jun 27, 2007

Ames said:
20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And when you
21 woke up, where was John?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: He was up already.
23 He had gotten up, I think he was in the
24 bathroom.
25 TOM HANEY: And his bathroom --
0014
1 okay.
2 Did you see him or hear him at that
3 time?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think I saw
5 him. I think I heard his shower on.

<SNIPPED>

21 PATSY RAMSEY: That's John's study,
22 back --
23 TRIP DeMUTH: To the right?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Where you turn
25 right, uh-hum.
0303
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you know what this
2 is? It's hard to see, in the back lower corner?
3 Does that look like his bathrobe?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Looks
5 like a sweater or something.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would it be unusual
7 for John to put his bathrobe down on the floor
8 in that area?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Because he
10 usually hangs it up in his bathroom. Unless,
11 you know, he was starting to put it on when I
12 screamed for him and he dropped it or something.

According to the houseplans...the study was on the first floor....John's bathroom is on the third floor...so, how did John drop the robe onto the floor of the study, when he was in his bathroom, getting out of the shower, when Patsy yelled for him????

http://crimeshots.com/RamseyFloor.html

Ames,

More than likely because Patsy is making it all up. John had his shower ok, to wash away any forensic traces, then probably went to his study to make a few last minute phone calls?

What this suggests is that similar to their version events on returning from the White's, the version of events after they allegedly arose that morning is fabricated!

.

BOESP · Jun 27, 2007

Ames said:
...
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Because he
10 usually hangs it up in his bathroom. Unless,
11 you know, he was starting to put it on when I
12 screamed for him and he dropped it or something.

According to the houseplans...the study was on the first floor....John's bathroom is on the third floor...so, how did John drop the robe onto the floor of the study, when he was in his bathroom, getting out of the shower, when Patsy yelled for him????

http://crimeshots.com/RamseyFloor.html

That is bothersome isn't it? Regardless of what imaginary scenes come to mind, if the transcription is correct, it suggests John was in the study when he heard Patsy scream. Somehow, I can't see Patsy planting John's bathrobe there, even if she was the one who wore it. I can't think of a good reason he would take his bathrobe off in the study unless .....

Linda Arndt's statement about knowing who the killer was the moment John brought JonBenet up from the basement has always bothered me. Wasn't her specialty child abuse/molestation investigations?

Interesting piece of testimony whatever the situation.

Ames · Jun 27, 2007

UKGuy said:
Ames,

More than likely because Patsy is making it all up. John had his shower ok, to wash away any forensic traces, then probably went to his study to make a few last minute phone calls?

What this suggests is that similar to their version events on returning from the White's, the version of events after they allegedly arose that morning is fabricated!

.

Oh for sure...I know that she is making it all up as she goes along. I wonder though, if the blue fibers found on JB genital area....Remember, there supposedly were blue fibers found, and black fibers ...from John's Israeli shirt....found on her. Could John have been wearing his Israeli shirt, while he was wiping JB down with the blue robe? Just a thought..

Ames · Jun 27, 2007

BOESP said:
That is bothersome isn't it? Regardless of what imaginary scenes come to mind, if the transcription is correct, it suggests John was in the study when he heard Patsy scream. Somehow, I can't see Patsy planting John's bathrobe there, even if she was the one who wore it. I can't think of a good reason he would take his bathrobe off in the study unless .....

Linda Arndt's statement about knowing who the killer was the moment John brought JonBenet up from the basement has always bothered me. Wasn't her specialty child abuse/molestation investigations?

Interesting piece of testimony whatever the situation.

Bothersome... to say the least...

JMO8778 · Jun 28, 2007

BOESP said:
Linda Arndt's statement about knowing who the killer was the moment John brought JonBenet up from the basement has always bothered me. Wasn't her specialty child abuse/molestation investigations?

I don't know,but I do believe her initial feeling was correct.It was gut instinct when she looked into his eyes, and I think she was right on the money with it.(more than $118,000 btw,lol).JR was in high self -defense mode,and facial expressions during such times don't lie...IOW,it was a high stress time and he couldn't fake it.And I think it was his whole expression overall...not just his eyes.

JMO8778 · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
Oh for sure...I know that she is making it all up as she goes along. I wonder though, if the blue fibers found on JB genital area....Remember, there supposedly were blue fibers found, and black fibers ...from John's Israeli shirt....found on her. Could John have been wearing his Israeli shirt, while he was wiping JB down with the blue robe? Just a thought..

good thought...so if he was in the study w the robe on..he likely made a phone call or two b/f going to take a shower.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

JMO8778 said:
good thought...so if he was in the study w the robe on..he likely made a phone call or two b/f going to take a shower.

IF he even TOOK a shower. These people lie so much, who knows whats the truth anymore. I just found it really REALLY odd..that Patsy would say that John might have been putting on the bathrobe, when he got out of the shower...and that he could have dropped it when he heard her scream. Well...that sounds good in theory, but....the problem with THAT ....is.....the study (where the robe was found on the floor) and John's bathroom...(where he took a shower) ...were two whole floors away. HMMMMM :liar:

UKGuy · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
Oh for sure...I know that she is making it all up as she goes along. I wonder though, if the blue fibers found on JB genital area....Remember, there supposedly were blue fibers found, and black fibers ...from John's Israeli shirt....found on her. Could John have been wearing his Israeli shirt, while he was wiping JB down with the blue robe? Just a thought..

Ames,

Could John have been wearing his Israeli shirt, while he was wiping JB down with the blue robe?

He could have been, or he may have removed it to wipe down JonBenet, or JonBenet was in the same location where he dropped his shirt and someone else picked it up to wipe down JonBenet?

I understand why he would want to do it, but would he actually use his own shirt to wipe JonBenet down, that seems strange given items such as the flashlight being wiped clean of fingerprints.

Not unless he was attempting to hide JonBenet's injuries fast, say after she screamed, and before Patsy arrived to see what was going on?

If Patsy used his shirt was she trying to frame him along with a fake vaginal assault? Did he reckon whatever was going on that looked bad for him e.g. a domestic sexual assault, so vetoed it in favor of a kidnapping scenario, hence the covering up of the sexual assault?

.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

UKGuy said:
Ames,

He could have been, or he may have removed it to wipe down JonBenet, or JonBenet was in the same location where he dropped his shirt and someone else picked it up to wipe down JonBenet?

I understand why he would want to do it, but would he actually use his own shirt to wipe JonBenet down, that seems strange given items such as the flashlight being wiped clean of fingerprints.

Not unless he was attempting to hide JonBenet's injuries fast, say after she screamed, and before Patsy arrived to see what was going on?

If Patsy used his shirt was she trying to frame him along with a fake vaginal assault? Did he reckon whatever was going on that looked bad for him e.g. a domestic sexual assault, so vetoed it in favor of a kidnapping scenario, hence the covering up of the sexual assault?

.

You know....that's the part that gets me. I also believe that John, for whatever reason...."vetoed the sexual assault in favor of a kidnapping scenario", but, what I can't figure out is WHY? Otherwise, the wiping down and the re-dressing makes absolutely no sense at all. John...(thinking to himself)..."Hmmmm, now we could make this look like a sexual assault, ...how would I go about doing that? Let's see....I will insert this paintbrush, and then....let's see....what else could I do to make it look like a sexual assault? Hey, I know....I will wipe her down, put clean panties on her, redress her...and for a special effect, wrap her like a papoose in her blanket. Oh yes, definately....for sure, if that doesn't point to a sexual assault, then I don't know what will". UMMMM...I don't THINK so!

UKGuy · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
You know....that's the part that gets me. I also believe that John, for whatever reason...."vetoed the sexual assault in favor of a kidnapping scenario", but, what I can't figure out is WHY? Otherwise, the wiping down and the re-dressing makes absolutely no sense at all. John...(thinking to himself)..."Hmmmm, now we could make this look like a sexual assault, ...how would I go about doing that? Let's see....I will insert this paintbrush, and then....let's see....what else could I do to make it look like a sexual assault? Hey, I know....I will wipe her down, put clean panties on her, redress her...and for a special effect, wrap her like a papoose in her blanket. Oh yes, definately....for sure, if that doesn't point to a sexual assault, then I don't know what will". UMMMM...I don't THINK so!

Ames,

The other option is of course that initially John was sexually assaulting JonBenet, he may have been using some instrument, this led to the bleeding and an angry reaction from JonBenet, then she was strangled then the head blow or vice versa, then John attempts to wipe away the blood using his shirt, cleaning her up. At some point she was redressed in those size-12's, and her size-6's were possibly washed out, later she was moved to the basement and the kidnapping staging was put into place, imo that is more consistent than creating a fake sexual assault then hiding it?

.

Rino · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
IF he even TOOK a shower. These people lie so much, who knows whats the truth anymore. I just found it really REALLY odd..that Patsy would say that John might have been putting on the bathrobe, when he got out of the shower...and that he could have dropped it when he heard her scream. Well...that sounds good in theory, but....the problem with THAT ....is.....the study (where the robe was found on the floor) and John's bathroom...(where he took a shower) ...were two whole floors away. HMMMMM :liar:

Also, if he puts a robe on after a shower, hears a scream and drops it, are we to understand that he ran out nude??? Not trying to be silly, but he was a father to two young children who too could have heard the scream. There are defininatley holes in this version of events.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

Rino said:
Also, if he puts a robe on after a shower, hears a scream and drops it, are we to understand that he ran out nude??? Not trying to be silly, but he was a father to two young children who too could have heard the scream. There are defininatley holes in this version of events.

LOL...now theres an image that I would rather forget....gross.

Well, heres the weird thing.....okay....the study, where the robe was found on the floor..is on the first floor....John's bathroom, where he was supposedly taken a shower, is on the third floor. IF...he went to put on the robe, after getting out of the shower in his bathroom....how did it end up on the floor of his first floor study? Okay...suppose....he was putting on the robe...heard a sceam....ran down two flights of stairs to the study....and dropped his robe. WELLL....he would have had to have passed Patsy on the way. John (running down the stairs past Patsy)..."Patsy...what are you screaming for? I am heading to the study on the first floor, so that I can drop my robe on the floor....you screaming alarmed me....so, I will be right back, after I drop my robe". It makes no sense at all. The only thing that would make sense...is that John was putting on the robe, after he got out of the shower...he heard Patsy scream...and he dropped his robe on the bathroom floor. Somehow...either the robe grew feet...or by some sort of magic...it made its way down to the first floor study. It probably did this, while Patsy was writing the fake ransom note, and John was finishing up the staging.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

UKGuy said:
Ames,

The other option is of course that initially John was sexually assaulting JonBenet, he may have been using some instrument, this led to the bleeding and an angry reaction from JonBenet, then she was strangled then the head blow or vice versa, then John attempts to wipe away the blood using his shirt, cleaning her up. At some point she was redressed in those size-12's, and her size-6's were possibly washed out, later she was moved to the basement and the kidnapping staging was put into place, imo that is more consistent than creating a fake sexual assault then hiding it?

.

You could be right...but, I.. for some reason....don't ask my why....I just don't think that it happened that way. I just don't believe that John was molesting her. We, or course...will never know. But, I for some reason....cannot grasp that. Funny though, I can see Patsy slinging her into the side of the tub or sink, in a violent rage, but I just can't imagine John molesting JB...especially on Christmas night, when they had to get up early the next day. I know that this happens every single minute of every single day...molestion/incest.....but, I don't know...I just don't believe that John was doing that to her. Shoot...he was never home long enough to do that....maybe someone else in the family was. Who knows...this case just drives me NUTS!

Solace · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
You could be right...but, I.. for some reason....don't ask my why....I just don't think that it happened that way. I just don't believe that John was molesting her. We, or course...will never know. But, I for some reason....cannot grasp that. Funny though, I can see Patsy slinging her into the side of the tub or sink, in a violent rage, but I just can't imagine John molesting JB...especially on Christmas night, when they had to get up early the next day. I know that this happens every single minute of every single day...molestion/incest.....but, I don't know...I just don't believe that John was doing that to her. Shoot...he was never home long enough to do that....maybe someone else in the family was. Who knows...this case just drives me NUTS!

It drives everyone nuts AMES. Just the fact of what happened to her in that house with these two people is insane. Just the fact that Burke heard noises - he heard them talking. Does that give you the creeps or what? Sounds like a horror movie. If he heard them talking, he had to have heard something. Because of course they sounded crazy and he did not go to listen, it is possible. The kid seems like he is not dealing with all the necessary screws anyway.

trixie · Jun 28, 2007

Ames said:
You could be right...but, I.. for some reason....don't ask my why....I just don't think that it happened that way. I just don't believe that John was molesting her. We, or course...will never know. But, I for some reason....cannot grasp that. Funny though, I can see Patsy slinging her into the side of the tub or sink, in a violent rage, but I just can't imagine John molesting JB...especially on Christmas night, when they had to get up early the next day. I know that this happens every single minute of every single day...molestion/incest.....but, I don't know...I just don't believe that John was doing that to her. Shoot...he was never home long enough to do that....maybe someone else in the family was. Who knows...this case just drives me NUTS!

I agree with you. It's just something you can't quite put your finger on but it's a hunch or a feeling that he wasn't doing that to her. Wasn't the open bible with the page creased and pointing to the word incest also found in the study where the bathrobe was found?

Dru · Jun 28, 2007

trixie said:
I agree with you. It's just something you can't quite put your finger on but it's a hunch or a feeling that he wasn't doing that to her. Wasn't the open bible with the page creased and pointing to the word incest also found in the study where the bathrobe was found?

One thing I've learned about those 'hunches' is that they're not all that reliable when it comes to abuse.

Time and time again a tearful mother, or tearful parents, say about an abuser: "We just didn't know. We thought "X" was a terrific guy. We thought the kids were perfectly safe with him/her." The woman on TV whose husband was selling kiddie *advertiser censored* of him abusing their own eight year old daughter had no idea her husband was doing anything of the kind.

How many young male students have been abused by female teachers? How many times have stunned parents said, "We never saw anything wrong? We never saw any warning signs? We thought she was a good teacher?" Same thing for the priest scandal, for sports coaches everyone liked, for that nice older gentleman down the street. There just isn't a "type" of molester that can always be identified, and ruling out either of the adult Rs on the grounds of a hunch or feeling is something I don't think we can afford to do.

That said, I don't think actual molestation occurred Christmas night. I think something happened, and someone snapped, and whether it was PR or JR I think it did have something to do with the chronic abuse that seemed to show up in the autopsy.

If JBR had been a better reader, I'd wonder very much about that dictionary entry--if she was caught looking up that particular word by someone in her family who was abusing her, then the murder might have take place right there in the study! But from everything I've read looking up a word like that would have been beyond her very early reader skills.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

trixie said:
I agree with you. It's just something you can't quite put your finger on but it's a hunch or a feeling that he wasn't doing that to her. Wasn't the open bible with the page creased and pointing to the word incest also found in the study where the bathrobe was found?

I know...its just women's intuition, I guess. I just don't feel like he was molesting her. Yes, it was a dictionary, and the corner of the page was turned down, and pointing to the word incest. Could have been a coincidence....OR...Burke knows more than he is saying...maybe he looked up the word, for some reason. Patsy and John would have known what that word meant without having to look it up or mark the page. Maybe Burke heard them talking....and maybe John was saying something like..."they are going to accuse me of incest"....or something like that. Which THEY did.

Ames · Jun 28, 2007

Solace said:
It drives everyone nuts AMES. Just the fact of what happened to her in that house with these two people is insane. Just the fact that Burke heard noises - he heard them talking. Does that give you the creeps or what? Sounds like a horror movie. If he heard them talking, he had to have heard something. Because of course they sounded crazy and he did not go to listen, it is possible. The kid seems like he is not dealing with all the necessary screws anyway.

Shoot...ain't THAT the truth...did you read the interview that Burke gave. One of the posters ....either here, or FFJ...I am thinking it was here.....posted it. Yes, he has several screws loose. He is as cute as beans...have you seen him lately? But.....not playing with a full deck.

DeeDee249 · Jun 28, 2007

Dru said:
One thing I've learned about those 'hunches' is that they're not all that reliable when it comes to abuse.

Time and time again a tearful mother, or tearful parents, say about an abuser: "We just didn't know. We thought "X" was a terrific guy. We thought the kids were perfectly safe with him/her." The woman on TV whose husband was selling kiddie *advertiser censored* of him abusing their own eight year old daughter had no idea her husband was doing anything of the kind.

How many young male students have been abused by female teachers? How many times have stunned parents said, "We never saw anything wrong? We never saw any warning signs? We thought she was a good teacher?" Same thing for the priest scandal, for sports coaches everyone liked, for that nice older gentleman down the street. There just isn't a "type" of molester that can always be identified, and ruling out either of the adult Rs on the grounds of a hunch or feeling is something I don't think we can afford to do.

That said, I don't think actual molestation occurred Christmas night. I think something happened, and someone snapped, and whether it was PR or JR I think it did have something to do with the chronic abuse that seemed to show up in the autopsy.

If JBR had been a better reader, I'd wonder very much about that dictionary entry--if she was caught looking up that particular word by someone in her family who was abusing her, then the murder might have take place right there in the study! But from everything I've read looking up a word like that would have been beyond her very early reader skills.

Amen to that! It's nearly ALWAYS who you least expect.

Actually, I classify all the IDI explanations as "Alpine Lace" (full of holes).That said, LA suspected something wasn't right.
She wasn't a child abuse specialist, though. I believe she was a rape victim specialst. So she was trained to be sympathetic to women and view them as victims. That may be why she felt PR was innocent and JR was guilty.

John's Blue Bathrobe....

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