FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

Pias said:

Within the story between Dale Jr and his 'still friend' (the friend f's his wife, and they stay buddies? And she dies? And they stay friends? Really now?... How often does THAT happen?) What we see is one person reporting they realized she was unconscious and unresponsive upon waking. The other indicates the person went to sleep knowing she was unconscious and unresponsive. Interesting that no matter how you slice it, you can't prove a crime, unless it can be found within those autopsy photos, notes, police reports, and recollection of events, including by those willing to step forward in the name of what is right and to tell the untold truths, if they be. It is quite plain to see, IMO, that a crime took place, if the only crime was that no charges of any kind were filed against anyone involved, regardless of when or where along the line, the crime was committed. JMO

I'll go out on a limb here and recon to guess, Dale either did not love Shannon at the time of her death, or he loved his friend more. MOO

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Great theory Pias...Let's carry this out a little further.

Well it has been suspected that Dale has had encounters with men via MSM reports if I recall. IMO he was looking for male dates on Craig's List. Dale may still be "in the closet" so we don't really have any proof so...maybe Dale and KC were FWBs (friends with benefits)? They would do anything for each other...even kill for one another?

Any way you slice, I bet Dale had Shannon killed and I wouldn't be surprised if Dale's "friend" somehow helped in what transpired with Michelle as well. All JMO

Pias said:

Try searching again.

If computer(s) and phone(s) were seized during the search, then one can safely say, at the time of that report, LE did not know WHAT they had, so it is safe to say that nothing was REPORTED.


We see LE removing items in the videos, snapshots, and read of computers and other items being removed, if the visual isn't enough. http://youtu.be/1g310Djl5rI This will give you what you want to hear.

Dale admits LE has taken his phone and suggests his friends will need to get in touch with him using alternate method(s) until he gets it back per fb.

While there is no specific mention of PC's being removed in this news report, we are able to see that items are being carried by LE on Dale's property and it is referenced that items were removed or taken. http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/search-for-missing-mother-of-3/vFJnD/

More importantly, and less discussed, is the information one can find within this story. Happy sleuthing!

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Thank you for your link of the videos about boxes being taken out of DS's condo during the search, I clearly had missed them.

If computer(s) and phone(s) were seized during the search, then one can safely say, at the time of that report, LE did not know WHAT they had, so it is safe to say that nothing was REPORTED.

I'm not clear on that ... since boxes were apparently taken out of DS's condo during the search, I think it reasonable that the PC and the cell phone were among the items that had been seized since IMO that would be standard procedure about evidence gathering and all but surely included in the search warrant, however the news reports stated that nothing had been reported by LE and presumably by any sources from inside the PD about any evidence being found as it pertains to MP's disappearance and a possible involvement of DS in it so I presume that you believe that at the time of the search LE did not know WHAT they had as you put it, but as they analyzed what they had they discovered evidence implicating DS in the crime and that is, at least in part, why they named him the prime suspect, and that is an opinion not a fact as far as I know, my opinion is actually quite the opposite here, since more then 8 months have passed without DS being charged with anything, since the police have never stated they had direct evidence implicating DS, my guess would be that no such direct evidence exist at least until LE makes any evidence public. The only statements made by LE (as far as I know) are that they consider DS to be the Prime Suspect (not sure what that means exactly since we know of no other suspect) and that they have "limited information and limited evidence", and based on that I have a really hard time personally in forming an opinion about guilt or innocence here and an even harder time when I read about opinions that sometimes seamlessly get lumped together with evidence and facts, to the point where I'm not able to clearly distinguish between the two.

Thank you again for your kindness in answering my questions and the video links you have provided.

I wish only to imply, that during a search, regardless of what was taken, one does not always know what evidence they have collected until further investigation/analysis of the items taken, and that it would be fair to say, at that time, LE did not know what they had, evidence or otherwise, and therefore, no evidence was reported as having been collected, despite the fact that items were, which are reported/described by both MSM, and/or Jr himself, to include his computers and cell phone. To conclude anything further would be total conjecture. One can ascertain, from the course of events, that something lead LE to name him as Prime Suspect. What that was, or what they were, is something known only to investigators, but is likely supported by evidence of some sort, not excluding Dale Jr being in possession of the children, indicating the children went from Michelle's custody, to Jr's, but does not clearly support that there was no other person involved during some course of the transaction. Even to say it is Michelle pulling up to the condo would be an assumption I am not prepared to make. It may be true her Hummer arrived, but did she? And even if she did, was she still under her own control? If you can answer those questions, then you have valuable information, wouldn't you agree?

May I add, time means nothing. Facts do. In time, it is possible, that the facts now known, combined with the possibility of future discovery, could instantly bring the case to an arrest. This remains to be seen, or you could say, seeing the remains could change everything in an instant. It's all relative, really.

Pias said:

I wish only to imply, that during a search, regardless of what was taken, one does not always know what evidence they have collected until further investigation/analysis of the items taken, and that it would be fair to say, at that time, LE did not know what they had, evidence or otherwise, and therefore, no evidence was reported as having been collected, despite the fact that items were, which are reported/described by both MSM, and/or Jr himself, to include his computers and cell phone. To conclude anything further would be total conjecture. One can ascertain, from the course of events, that something lead LE to name him as Prime Suspect. What that was, or what they were, is something known only to investigators, but is likely supported by evidence of some sort, not excluding Dale Jr being in possession of the children, indicating the children went from Michelle's custody, to Jr's, but does not clearly support that there was no other person involved during some course of the transaction. Even to say it is Michelle pulling up to the condo would be an assumption I am not prepared to make. It may be true her Hummer arrived, but did she? And even if she did, was she still under her own control? If you can answer those questions, then you have valuable information, wouldn't you agree?

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Yes, I unequivocally agree with you here but wasn't that also my point? And yes, it is logical to assume LE does have some kind of evidence, I just very much doubt they are direct evidence, the reason for which I have stated before. In any case the issue was not at all about opinions and facts per se, but how they both get sometimes represented, perhaps you might want to consider my point in the context of my original reply to post #219 by GrammaMaybe and by this observation I made: " even harder time when I read about opinions that sometimes seamlessly get lumped together with evidence and facts, to the point where I'm not able to clearly distinguish between the two" which was included in my last reply to you but still in reference to post # 219 and that also represent my personal frustration in always assuming the worst where DS is concerned, not because I don't understand it and in a sense even share it, but because from my point of view, conflicts with basic standard of fairness which should be accorded to anyone and especially to people we don't necessarily like and even more especially where the issue is as grave as being guilty of murder, and that is also my opinion.

Do not confuse my replies with anything other than to present you with requested information you were unable to locate. Where we agree or disagree is of no consequence to solving this case. I do not wish to cloud what is important by that which is not.

See not the smoke and the mirrors.

I didn't confuse (I think), and I certainly concur with you that agreeing or disagreeing here is of no consequence in solving the case, it was only to pick up on recurring issues in this case in a way that is widely practiced here either as replies or as new posts, and most importantly in keeping with the logical flow of the original posting, but I thank you again for your information which you kindly provided.

Oh my God, sorry Pias, I undertand now what you meant, ... I made a terrible mistake in in post #314 ... I did in fact got confused there, I was not referring to you in that post ... you were just giving information I know, I was referring to the original post and the original poster but I did write it clearly so that unintentionally I was referring to you, I'm mortified and please accept my sincerely felt apologies, you must have thought I went off the reservation (so to speak) in that post and that's in keeping with what all my ex-wives contend about me in just about everything else. Seriously, I'm often multitasking too much and clearly I'm not getting any younger. Sorry again.

Might I suggest, that if one wishes to seek strictly evidence, one will better find it somewhere else. To be here would indicate a desire to be here, and heard, for those who speak, to and for whatever personal reason, motive, or agenda. Tossing around ideas, out loud, such as we do here, can often lead to light bulb moments of potential discovery, therefore and likewise, holding potential value. To speculate without a combination of the facts would be impossible and could hinder potential advancement of the case by not daring to delve into the imaginable. It is indeed this process, which has lead to many a discovery of fact. It is the design of these boards to bring our thoughts and ideas together in search of truths. I find it troubling that you find it troubling here, when it is all part of the design.

Case isn't solved, yet. After pages and pages and pages of "ideas". Main problem. Nobody here knows what LE has or doesn't have.

If Michelle is found deceased, either in water or buried, would there still be a any DNA or evidence to say who killed her? If she is buried I do remember some things from CA's trial, that the body is more protected if found in the earth then in the water, but what could they get at this point in time? Hoping someone with forensic knowledge could chim in. Poor Caylee was out in the elements for 6 months and her little bones were scattered and there was no way to tell how she died. Even with duct tape wrapped around her little head, hair tangeled into it, they found her mom "not guilty". So if Michelle is dead and someone killed her, is there any way science would be able to say Who, What, Where and When, How?

Bern said:

If Michelle is found deceased, either in water or buried, would there still be a any DNA or evidence to say who killed her? If she is buried I do remember some things from CA's trial, that the body is more protected if found in the earth then in the water, but what could they get at this point in time? Hoping someone with forensic knowledge could chim in. Poor Caylee was out in the elements for 6 months and her little bones were scattered and there was no way to tell how she died. Even with duct tape wrapped around her little head, hair tangeled into it, they found her mom "not guilty". So if Michelle is dead and someone killed her, is there any way science would be able to say Who, What, Where and When, How?

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JMO - I think they know the 'Who', 'What' and 'When'. They just need the 'Where' and 'How'. I think that is what we have been trying to figure out ourselves (where/how)

MOO of course

Ouch! Nobody is saying (I think) here that one should seek only established evidence as objects of discussions if I understand you correctly here, as the thousands of posts here are not already an indication that this is not the case. We have discussed here for a long time theory after theory about this case. What I sometime objected to is the melting of opinions with facts so that the two are scarcely distinguishable from one other and that is only my opinion and others may disagree ... and if the issue is fairness then we all decide what's fair or unfair every time we engage in this debate by saying what we say, do we not?.

In sum, the fact that people sometimes refer to evidence and facts it is not to deny others the right to say whatever they choose, and it is certainly true that if we relied only on facts or specific evidence there would be IMO not much to talk about in this case, and yes there are obvious reasons to speculate, theorizing, and all that, although ultimately IMO all the theories and opinions in the world are only as good as the facts they uncover as well as the evidential foundation they rest upon when all has been said and done.

Thor said:

Yes, I unequivocally agree with you here but wasn't that also my point? And yes, it is logical to assume LE does have some kind of evidence, I just very much doubt they are direct evidence, the reason for which I have stated before. In any case the issue was not at all about opinions and facts per se, but how they both get sometimes represented, perhaps you might want to consider my point in the context of my original reply to post #219 by GrammaMaybe and by this observation I made: " even harder time when I read about opinions that sometimes seamlessly get lumped together with evidence and facts, to the point where I'm not able to clearly distinguish between the two" which was included in my last reply to you but still in reference to post # 219 and that also represent my personal frustration in always assuming the worst where DS is concerned, not because I don't understand it and in a sense even share it, but because from my point of view, conflicts with basic standard of fairness which should be accorded to anyone and especially to people we don't necessarily like and even more especially where the issue is as grave as being guilty of murder, and that is also my opinion.

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I disagree with you on this one....when someone uses JMO and IMO they are entitled to their own opinion. If it's fact they should back it up with a link. I know we often agree to disagree on this point but much of what we discuss is opinion because we simply do not know the details...as it has not been released by LE (for obvious purposes)...

As far as given Dale some leniency. Murderers should get ALL the public pressure in the world. Just because he hasn't been charged yet doesn't mean most of the world doesn't believe Dale did it. In fact if you were to poll people who follow the case I wager that 90% or better believe Dale did (including his so called friends). He is a s guilty as sin and we will keep sleuthing him until either:

1. new evidence is released that clears Dale (doubt it exists)
2. a new suspect is named (doubt he or she exists)

So until we see 1 or 2 come about we will find out all we can on Dale and rehash his past over and over again until we find one clue to nail him...JMO! It's too bad Dale has to be a wimp and hide behind his high powered attorney. What a complete ball-less man Dale is...just saying!

Jazzmaster said:

I disagree with you on this one....when someone uses JMO and IMO they are entitled to their own opinion. If it's fact they should back it up with a link. I know we often agree to disagree on this point but much of what we discuss is opinion because we simply do not know the details...as it has not been released by LE (for obvious purposes)...

As far as given Dale some leniency. Murderers should get ALL the public pressure in the world. Just because he hasn't been charged yet doesn't mean most of the world doesn't believe Dale did it. In fact if you were to poll people who follow the case I wager that 90% or better believe Dale did (including his so called friends). He is a s guilty as sin and we will keep sleuthing him until either:

1. new evidence is released that clears Dale (doubt it exists)
2. a new suspect is named (doubt he or she exists)

So until we see 1 or 2 come about we will find out all we can on Dale and rehash his past over and over again until we find one clue to nail him...JMO! It's too bad Dale has to be a wimp and hide behind his high powered attorney. What a complete ball-less man Dale is...just saying!

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On point 1, I agree. On point 2, I guess that depends on which capacity you qualify a suspect. I suspect, no less than 2 were involved during at least some phases of the crime. That leaves at least one more than 1. MOO? Perhaps. It is mathematically improbable that anyone acted alone during the entire commission of this crime.

Jazzmaster said:

I disagree with you on this one....when someone uses JMO and IMO they are entitled to their own opinion. If it's fact they should back it up with a link. I know we often agree to disagree on this point but much of what we discuss is opinion because we simply do not know the details...as it has not been released by LE (for obvious purposes)...

As far as given Dale some leniency. Murderers should get ALL the public pressure in the world. Just because he hasn't been charged yet doesn't mean most of the world doesn't believe Dale did it. In fact if you were to poll people who follow the case I wager that 90% or better believe Dale did (including his so called friends). He is a s guilty as sin and we will keep sleuthing him until either:

1. new evidence is released that clears Dale (doubt it exists)
2. a new suspect is named (doubt he or she exists)

So until we see 1 or 2 come about we will find out all we can on Dale and rehash his past over and over again until we find one clue to nail him...JMO! It's too bad Dale has to be a wimp and hide behind his high powered attorney. What a complete ball-less man Dale is...just saying!

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Hi Jazz, yep we agree to disagree a lot Although we don't really disagree on DS being guilty, now do we? You think he's guilty and I don't know whether he is or he's not, that doesn't make much of a disagreement now does it?. May be we disagree just a little about calling DS a wimp or ball-less ... ouch! (like you just did) , or the many other adjectives :loveyou: used to describe DS, but again just a little anyway, if anything I question the strategy, since for many, poor DS being hit over the head with anything but the kitchen sink may espouse a bit more or a lot more sympathy for him that it otherwise would have been there in the first place, and isn't somebody eying the kitchen sink already as a possible next move? :floorlaugh: As you are fond to say ... just saying!

Pias said:

On point 1, I agree. On point 2, I guess that depends on which capacity you qualify a suspect. I suspect, no less than 2 were involved during at least some phases of the crime. That leaves at least one more than 1. MOO? Perhaps. It is mathematically improbable that anyone acted alone during the entire commission of this crime.

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"It is mathematically improbable that anyone acted alone during the entire commission of this crime ..."

How so?

Do your own math. I did, based on available information. Not impossible, just time consuming. I recon that be something you have on your hands, or you wouldn't be here :wink: and time better constructed. Be well.

Thor said:

Hi Jazz, yep we agree to disagree a lot Although we don't really disagree on DS being guilty, now do we? You think he's guilty and I don't know whether he is or he's not, that doesn't make much of a disagreement now does it?. May be we disagree just a little about calling DS a wimp or ball-less ... ouch! (like you just did) , or the many other adjectives :loveyou: used to describe DS, but again just a little anyway, if anything I question the strategy, since for many, poor DS being hit over the head with anything but the kitchen sink may espouse a bit more or a lot more sympathy for him that it otherwise would have been there in the first place, and isn't somebody eying the kitchen sink already as a possible next move? :floorlaugh: As you are fond to say ... just saying!

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But wouldn't you at least admit you discount all of the circumstantial evidence released thus far? It seems that if they found a murder weapon with Michelle's blood and Dale's fingerprints you may attempt to explain away how Dale could have been involved. That is how it SOMETIMES comes across. I know you like healthy debates but I still haven't seen any good theories on someone other than Dale nor have I seen ANY supporting evidence to clear Dale. If what Dale is saying is true....Michelle came and went as Dale described and Dale went directly to his parents AND stayed their the WHOLE time Michelle went missing he WOULDN'T be the PRIME suspect after dozens and dozens of LE reviewed the case. The reason he is the suspect is he lied over and over again IMO and his story doesn't hold water. Furthermore Michelle's normal activity ceases immediately upon arrival at Carter Glen and Dale has long periods of time where he cannot be accounted for. Dale is as stupid as they come if he thinks he can get away with MURDER but given his track record it's already a PROVEN fact he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

mikkismom said:

JMO - I think they know the 'Who', 'What' and 'When'. They just need the 'Where' and 'How'. I think that is what we have been trying to figure out ourselves (where/how)

MOO of course

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Thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. I am interested in the probability of there being any solid evidence to solve this case; ie DNA, evidence of drugging a victim, fibers left behind....

I fear that if Michelle is found dead somewhere in the area, it will remain a mystery and there will not be an arrest. JMO

If they REALLY wanted to, they could watch the whole thing unfold before their eyes, if only they would change some laws. It's not that the technology isn't there, it's just not used because somehow, we all have more rights than the deceased. Sad, really, how our priorities get so messed up, isn't it?