AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

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PAXIMUS said:
Well I am a former US Marine and I dont panic, in fact I was trained to ALWAYS keep my cool during any crises and THAT is basic training that is also offered by most police and fire departments and other crises workers, if you ever take such training or listen to such people talk the first thing they tell you and the one thing they ALWAYS stress is the IMPORTANCE of keeping your head during an emergency/crises.


I am certain it would be suggested I am a sociopath if someone seen me in the midst of a crises. If I were to have lost my cool during the emergencies and crises I have been in I would have been brought back from Iraq/Afghanistan in a body bag.


Granted not everyone has had such training but it really isnt out of the norm for some people to be able to remain calm during the most frenzied times.
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I understand that, I worked as an EMT and I did just do what I was trained to do, whether the patient was alone, with terrified family members, etc., however when it came to my own kids getting hurt I did not remain as calm..I have seen another EMT respond to a call in which a member of his family was involved and he needed to be removed from the scene. So sometimes no matter what a persons training, when it involves their child they may find it impossible to maintain that level of calmness.
 
spoiledmom said:
I know for all of you that don't live in Arizona/Texas states that border to Mexico, it is hard to believe that a cartel would be involved. For most of us that live here, it is easier to believe. It is getting worse and worse and sadly, they do take kids. Some of it is not reported in the media. They are not afraid of cops and they really aren't secret. They are so powerful that sadly, they get away with a lot. If this is happening, there would be a reason that we are not hearing about it. Some things need to be kept quiet until all is said and done. A good thing is that if this is true, most likely Isabel is alive. Otherwise I think it would have been all over the media. These are all my own Theories/Opinions.
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If gangs/cartels or groups are abducting kids and this is not being publicized, I sure hope someone takes the initiative and creates a website to focus on this cartel-snatching epidemic and highlight the names, pictures and bios of the kids that are missing. This is scary stuff! I'm not as concerned about the adult population, or custody issues, but children being abducted from the U.S. by cartel groups, and this is happening and people don't know about it?

Children must be protected AND missing children who have been abducted by these cartel groups need to be identified and ultimately found.
 
Donjeta said:
IMO the Chief made a point in the last presser to say that they haven't ruled any lines of inquiry out.

From ingra's transcription:

But we also want to emphasize that this doesn't mean that we have settled on a path in this investigation. As we've said from the very beginning we are open to multiple paths on this investigation. We're closing the door on any possibilities. We are following up on all the leads and we have investigators and detectives, probably about 12-15 detectives that are assigned to follow external viewpoints on this investigation. The possibility of a stranger abduction or something of that like . And then we have probably 4 detectives or so that are following the possibility is there inside the family involvement. And that's what we have been saying from the beginning. That we're not closing our minds to anything about this investigation.
Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said investigators have eliminated one theory. "She didn't get up and leave the house on her own," Hawke said. She declined to discuss the evidence that led investigators to make that conclusion or reveal details about who they suspect took her.

AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14 - Page 52 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6


The other quote that is in all the articles that say LE confirmed an abduction merely says that they've confirmed she didn't run away on her own but there was somebody else involved. It does not imo rule out custodial parent involvement.


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6
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So LE has more detectives (12-15) working on the external part of the investigation and only have 4 assigned to the internal investigation.

Interesting.
 
~n/t~ said:
If anything, I would think RC would be the one with the more calm disposition considering she's a registered nurse who works in the ER. I'm sure she's had her share of very traumatic experiences in her job.

Sergio is a dental hygienist (or assistant). Sorry still don't know what he is.
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But Rc is her MOTHER!
A big difference!
 
Madeleine74 said:
If gangs/cartels or groups are abducting kids and this is not being publicized, I sure hope someone takes the initiative and creates a website to focus on this cartel-snatching epidemic and highlight the names, pictures and bios of the kids that are missing. This is scary stuff! I'm not as concerned about the adult population, or custody issues, but children being abducted from the U.S. by cartel groups, and this is happening and people don't know about it?

Children must be protected AND missing children who have been abducted by these cartel groups need to be identified and ultimately found.
Click to expand...

Are they kidnapping 6 year olds right out of their own homes? Do they ask for ransom?

imo
 
Mod Note: Sleuthing minors is off limits. No exceptions have been made in this case. Do not spin theories around a minor's involvement in Isa's disappearance.
 
Am I the only one who thinks it was neither Sergio, Rebecca, OR a cartel?

Just seeing if I'm completely out in left field - seems like the two biggest "camps" of theories are SC or cartel (whether drugs or weapons).
 
Donjeta said:
IMO the Chief made a point in the last presser to say that they haven't ruled any lines of inquiry out.

From ingra's transcription:

But we also want to emphasize that this doesn't mean that we have settled on a path in this investigation. As we've said from the very beginning we are open to multiple paths on this investigation. We're closing the door on any possibilities. We are following up on all the leads and we have investigators and detectives, probably about 12-15 detectives that are assigned to follow external viewpoints on this investigation. The possibility of a stranger abduction or something of that like . And then we have probably 4 detectives or so that are following the possibility is there inside the family involvement. And that's what we have been saying from the beginning. That we're not closing our minds to anything about this investigation.
Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said investigators have eliminated one theory. "She didn't get up and leave the house on her own," Hawke said. She declined to discuss the evidence that led investigators to make that conclusion or reveal details about who they suspect took her.

AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14 - Page 52 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6


The other quote that is in all the articles that say LE confirmed an abduction merely says that they've confirmed she didn't run away on her own but there was somebody else involved. It does not imo rule out custodial parent involvement.


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6
Click to expand...


I remember listening to that presser and thinking holy smokes! IMO, 4 or more detectives dedicated to look at the possibility of family involvement is a big deal!! That is a lot of resources to look at the family and then 15 officers to look at external.

I've never followed a case where LE admits putting manpower to look at the family involvement. Has anyone?
 
Donjeta said:
IMO the Chief made a point in the last presser to say that they haven't ruled any lines of inquiry out.

From ingra's transcription:

But we also want to emphasize that this doesn't mean that we have settled on a path in this investigation. As we've said from the very beginning we are open to multiple paths on this investigation. We're closing the door on any possibilities. We are following up on all the leads and we have investigators and detectives, probably about 12-15 detectives that are assigned to follow external viewpoints on this investigation. The possibility of a stranger abduction or something of that like . And then we have probably 4 detectives or so that are following the possibility is there inside the family involvement. And that's what we have been saying from the beginning. That we're not closing our minds to anything about this investigation.
Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said investigators have eliminated one theory. "She didn't get up and leave the house on her own," Hawke said. She declined to discuss the evidence that led investigators to make that conclusion or reveal details about who they suspect took her.

AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14 - Page 52 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6


The other quote that is in all the articles that say LE confirmed an abduction merely says that they've confirmed she didn't run away on her own but there was somebody else involved. It does not imo rule out custodial parent involvement.


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ssing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/#ixzz1v3Hnq5l6
Click to expand...


The part I put in bold above makes me wonder if they do have an idea of who took her? Why would she decline to comment on who they believe might have taken her if they didn't have an idea?

Wouldn't the normal response be something like, "We don't know who took her and that is what we are trying to find out".

Makes me wonder if they are getting closer. I hope.:banghead:
 
Gardenlady said:
Am I the only one who thinks it was neither Sergio, Rebecca, OR a cartel?

Just seeing if I'm completely out in left field - seems like the two biggest "camps" of theories are SC or cartel (whether drugs or weapons).
Click to expand...

Yesterday and today I'm in the "creeper stranger did it". That could change at any moment!
 
Shelby2 said:
I understand that, I worked as an EMT and I did just do what I was trained to do, whether the patient was alone, with terrified family members, etc., however when it came to my own kids getting hurt I did not remain as calm..I have seen another EMT respond to a call in which a member of his family was involved and he needed to be removed from the scene. So sometimes no matter what a persons training, when it involves their child they may find it impossible to maintain that level of calmness.
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That is true and goes to my larger point all along: everyone is different.
 
PAXIMUS said:
I understand some people's concern with the 911 call but I have followed hundreds of cases and I have yet to see the public NOT rip every 911 call to shreds, has there ever been a perfect 911 call where everyone is in agreement that the person did what "they were supposed to do and acted like they were supposed to act?" (Whatever the hell that means)
I have a simple rule of thumb when looking at any unknown and that is if the majority of people believe A to be true it is very likely A is false and B, C or D being the more unpopular choices, are more than likely true.

This is of course evidenced all through history with angry mobs doing things like killing the very few people who had the balls to suggest the world wasnt flat.
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BBM

Not that I have ever witnessed and I have been a member here since Jan 2004.

IMO
 
Eileen730 said:
If there were threats of any kind they would all be in protective custody!
Or out of harms way for the time being!

All jmo!

LE wont let a man receiving death threats walk around if he gets shot
they get a hugeeeeee law suit!
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I'm not so sure about that, LE did not feel it necessary to provide Casey Anthony with protection once she was let free even though we all know she was getting death threats.
 
~n/t~ said:
I don't know if he harmed her or not but in the 911 call, I can clearly notice SC distancing himself from his daughter.

Talking to TPD, he says , I need to report a missing child. I believe she was abducted from my house. TPD had to ask him if he was referring to his daughter and then he says yes.

He mispells her name. It appears he gave the wrong birth date. When asked for Isabel's height, he gives TPD his wife's height, etc etc etc.

He then goes on to talking about himself and what I would consider setting up an alibi.

:moo:

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf
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You know, when you put this list up, and compare it to the comments that he seemed very cool and collected when he called 911, I have to disagree with those who felt he was too calm. I will admit his tone of voice was carefully modulated and he ATTEMPTED to appear calm, but the numerous inappropriate answers listed above (and telling the operator that "no, only the window was open and the screen was out" when asked if Isabel had any marks or scars) makes it seem as if he was a little preoccupied or flustered at the time he was on the phone. NOT the cool customer he tried to sound like.
 
Gardenlady said:
Am I the only one who thinks it was neither Sergio, Rebecca, OR a cartel?

Just seeing if I'm completely out in left field - seems like the two biggest "camps" of theories are SC or cartel (whether drugs or weapons).
Click to expand...

No I'm still open to all possibilities. As a matter of fact, I asked about the other case yesterday and if they had caught the perp who molested the 3 girls.

I'm also open to someone who knew the Celis family. Be it a neighbour, coach or an acquaintance.

And of course anyone in their extended family......uncles, cousins, etc.

The list is endless but the focus still seems to be towards the parents specifically SC.


ETA: Add Registered Sex Offenders to my list
 
Gardenlady said:
Am I the only one who thinks it was neither Sergio, Rebecca, OR a cartel?

Just seeing if I'm completely out in left field - seems like the two biggest "camps" of theories are SC or cartel (whether drugs or weapons).
Click to expand...

I am not in any camp, I got my tent pitched outside the gates where I sit alone, starving for a friend or companion to come join me in my madness.


At this point anything is possible.
 
Regarding the questions of why Isa might be wearing shorts and tank top instead of her pajamas:

My little princess Richman has a large selection of sleepwear. She has princess long nightgowns, princess shortie nightgowns, long pants and top pajamas, short pants and top pajamas.

What does she often choose to sleep in? A pair of soccer shorts and an old (super soft) tshirt of mine.

I don't think there is anything nefarious in her choice of sleepwear for the night she was abducted. Kids are kids and six years old is old enough for her to have formed her own ideas of "fashion and comfort".:moo:
 
~n/t~ said:
I remember listening to that presser and thinking holy smokes! IMO, 4 or more detectives dedicated to look at the possibility of family involvement is a big deal!! That is a lot of resources to look at the family and then 15 officers to look at external.

I've never followed a case where LE admits putting manpower to look at the family involvement. Has anyone?
Click to expand...

I dont think that is a lot. LE has already said they are continuing to investigate extended family members.

imo
 
oceanblueeyes said:
BBM

Not that I have ever witnessed and I have been a member here since Jan 2004.

IMO
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I have heard of this perfect 911 call but never witnessed it myself, it seems to be as fleeting as a bigfoot or lochness monster sighting.
 
LisaB said:
You know, when you put this list up, and compare it to the comments that he seemed very cool and collected when he called 911, I have to disagree with those who felt he was too calm. I will admit his tone of voice was carefully modulated and he ATTEMPTED to appear calm, but the numerous inappropriate answers listed above (and telling the operator that "no, only the window was open and the screen was out" when asked if Isabel had any marks or scars) makes it seem as if he was a little preoccupied or flustered at the time he was on the phone. NOT the cool customer he tried to sound like.
Click to expand...

Preoccupied with what he was going to say next? Is that what you mean? Attempting to get it right but instead messed it up?
 
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