Trayvon Martin's Autopsy

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ANd TM would be alive if he had just stayed in his HOME that night. What's that you say, he had a RIGHT to leave his home? Well, GZ had a RIGHT to leave his vehicle. And you can keep repeating that ALL DAY LONG, but the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle was NOT grounds for TM to attack him, and ALL the evidence points in that direction, IMO.

BBM

No to me it doesn't. I don't know if or when I will hear the reason Trayvon felt the need to fight off GZ. Simply put, Was Trayvon just the kind of kid to fight off someone for no reason or did something happen he felt the need. Something is missing.

JMO
 
BBM

You cannot convict the man of 2nd degree murder simply because he got out of his car. I don't understand how any jury is going to convict primarily based off the fact he got out of his car.

Once you get beyond the 'getting out of the car', what other evidence is there that shows that GZ started or instigated the confrontation. Saying 'getting out of his car' is a reason for the confrontation makes no sense to me and IMO there is no way that is going to hold up in a courtroom as the reason TM is dead.

Well we'll have to see how the state takes this at trial...

New George Zimmerman documents:

Police call shooting 'avoidable'The documents include the original report by Christopher Serino, the investigator who investigated the shooting. The report said the entire incident, from Zimmerman's initial call to when he was taken into custody, only took about eight and a half minutes.

Among the witness statements is one from a man who said he saw a dark-skinned man in a hoodie who was on top of a Hispanic man and punching him. The man yelled that he was going to call the police, and then he heard a "pop." However, the man admitted that he did not see the beginning of the scuffle. Another witness said he heard someone say "I've got a gun, I've got a gun," and "take my gun from me."


Serino concluded, however, that there was enough evidence to charge Zimmerman was manslaughter.


One of the Sanford police reports concluded the whole incident was avoidable had Zimmerman stayed in his car and waited for law enforcement.

snipped........


Meanwhile, DNA forensics of the gun used that night show that Zimmerman's DNA is on the firearm, except for the trigger.

According to the report, another individual's DNA was on the gun, but experts could not identify whose it is.

Zimmerman claimed Martin reached for the gun and that's when he fired.

But there are different descriptions of the gunshot wound to Martin. The Volusia County Medical Examiner said the shot was at a "intermediate range."

However, the FDLE report notes residue from the gun is consistent with a "contact shot
http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cf...icles/cfn/2012/5/17/zimmerman_discovery_.html


So, anyone can take the words of a liar,evidence doesn't lie... but I believe the state and the state knows GZ could have avoided this entire scenario had he stayed in his vehicle and let LE handle it..but we now understand what GZ thinks of SPD and was adamant and determined to not let another a&&hole get away...GZ's own words will get him convicted...
 
Well we'll have to see how the state takes this at trial...

http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cf...icles/cfn/2012/5/17/zimmerman_discovery_.html


So, anyone can take the words of a liar,evidence doesn't lie... but I believe the state and the state knows GZ could have avoided this entire scenario had he stayed in his vehicle and let LE handle it..but we now understand what GZ thinks of SPD and was adamant and determined to not let another a&&hole get away...GZ's own words will get him convicted...

That's an ambiguous statement though. Yes he could of avoided the scenario but that doesn't mean he's the ultimate cause of the confrontation. He could of avoided the situation if there was evidence that showed that TM did in fact jump him, beat him, etc. Doesn't make him guilty of murder in that scenario though.

How is that any different from saying a woman could of avoided being robbed/raped if she didn't walk down that dark alley all by herself?
 
That's an ambiguous statement though. Yes he could of avoided the scenario but that doesn't mean he's the ultimate cause of the confrontation. He could of avoided the situation if there was evidence that showed that TM did in fact jump him, beat him, etc. Doesn't make him guilty of murder in that scenario though.

How is that any different from saying a woman could of avoided being robbed/raped if she didn't walk down that dark alley all by herself?

bbm

A smart woman wouldn't.
 
Actually Inv. Serino made a statement that Zimmerman told him that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. I have pointed this out before and even linked to the exact page and I pasted the exact phrasing of this before. Serino did not pull this out of his hat or his arse. Even though the vast majority of Zimmerman's statements to SPD that night were redacted there was one nugget of info in the autopsy report of Trayvon.

Pg 138 of 183
Medical Examiner Case Report
Case Summary:
ECC contacted Fl Malphurs of an apparent death in Sanford in the courtyard behind 2861 Retreat View Circle. Person of contact (POC) was SPD Inv. Serino. POC advised of an unknown B/M who had been shot by a resident of the complex. POC stated the following:

At approximately 1910 hours on 02/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. That resident advised of a B/M who was at the complex between the townhomes. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch. Shortly after the call the resident confronted the male and the two began to physically fight. Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him in the chest. The male fell to the ground. SPD and SFD arrived on scene. The male was pronounced dead at 1930 hours. The identity of the male was unknown.

Link for the above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/S...-by-prosecutor


So, does this mean that Zimmerman was lying then or now? And since Zimmerman himself claimed to have confronted Trayvon can we now conclude that he did in fact instigate the confrontation?

MOO
 
The guy would still be guilty of robbing/raping her though.

Nope......if she never walked down that alley to start with, there would not have ever been a rape. Using common sense will keep peeps out of a lot of trouble.
 
Actually Inv. Serino made a statement that Zimmerman told him that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. I have pointed this out before and even linked to the exact page and I pasted the exact phrasing of this before. Serino did not pull this out of his hat or his arse. Even though the vast majority of Zimmerman's statements to SPD that night were redacted there was one nugget of info in the autopsy report of Trayvon.

Pg 138 of 183
Medical Examiner Case Report
Case Summary:
ECC contacted Fl Malphurs of an apparent death in Sanford in the courtyard behind 2861 Retreat View Circle. Person of contact (POC) was SPD Inv. Serino. POC advised of an unknown B/M who had been shot by a resident of the complex. POC stated the following:

At approximately 1910 hours on 02/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. That resident advised of a B/M who was at the complex between the townhomes. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch. Shortly after the call the resident confronted the male and the two began to physically fight. Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him in the chest. The male fell to the ground. SPD and SFD arrived on scene. The male was pronounced dead at 1930 hours. The identity of the male was unknown.

Link for the above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/S...-by-prosecutor


So, does this mean that Zimmerman was lying then or now? And since Zimmerman himself claimed to have confronted Trayvon can we now conclude that he did in fact instigate the confrontation?

MOO

You understand that report was what was initially told to the ME's office when they arrived at the scene? At that point, Serino (nor anyone else) had not even interrogated GZ yet on what his story was. Serino was probably getting his information from both dispatch and the officer on the scene.
 
Nope......if she never walked down that alley to start with, there would not have ever been a rape. Using common sense will keep peeps out of a lot of trouble.

So in other words, if it does in fact happen, you don't bother to prosecute the perp in that instance?

In this case, it did happen, he did get out of his car. Does that make him guilty of murder, because he got out of his car? I don't think so.
 
That's an ambiguous statement though. Yes he could of avoided the scenario but that doesn't mean he's the ultimate cause of the confrontation. He could of avoided the situation if there was evidence that showed that TM did in fact jump him, beat him, etc. Doesn't make him guilty of murder in that scenario though.

How is that any different from saying a woman could of avoided being robbed/raped if she didn't walk down that dark alley all by herself?

rape and manslaughter/murder are not the same crime. Both are heinous. But your analogy only makes sense if you pose the question thus: how is that different from saying a woman could have avoided killing her potential rapist if only she hadn't followed him down that dark alley?

Otherwise it is apples and oranges. both are fruit, both are round, that is about the end of the similarities.

moo
 
So in other words, if it does in fact happen, you don't bother to prosecute the perp in that instance?

In this case, it did happen, he did get out of his car. Does that make him guilty of murder, because he got out of his car? I don't think so.

The act of getting out of his car does not make him guilty of murder on its own. There are other factors that added to that act that make him guilty of murder.

Unfortunately for Zimmerman he neglected to do what he had been advised by not only the non-emergancy dispatcher but also by the official that was in charge of the Neighborhood Watch Volunteer training class.

This is not a case of one simple act being the reason behind the charges. There are (apparently) numerous things added up that resulted in his arrest. Zimmerman admitted to starting or instigating the confrontation. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. Zimmerman has (apparently) not been truthful in his version of events that occured that night. Zimmerman's account of events do not (apparently) match up to the evidence of what occured that night.

Now, as some have pointed out, all of this could have very easily been avoided had Zimmerman simply waited in his car for SPD to arrive and allow them to handle Trayvon. Zimmerman getting out of his car was simply the first step in the list of things that got the ball rolling.

MOO
 
So in other words, if it does in fact happen, you don't bother to prosecute the perp in that instance?

In this case, it did happen, he did get out of his car. Does that make him guilty of murder, because he got out of his car? I don't think so.


Aww city look........we are OT. It can't happen if she didn't put herself in that position. She didn't walk down the dark alley so no crime was commited. There is no perp to prosecute. GZ had called LE, when he CHOSE to get out of his car, he started the ball rolling. People need to take responsibility for the dumb chit they do.
 
Aww city look........we are OT. It can't happen if she didn't put herself in that position. She didn't walk down the dark alley so no crime was commited. There is no perp to prosecute. GZ had called LE, when he CHOSE to get out of his car, he started the ball rolling. People need to take responsibility for the dumb chit they do.

You're right. That's why this was always a possible manslaughter case, not a 2nd degree murder case.
 
Actually Inv. Serino made a statement that Zimmerman told him that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. I have pointed this out before and even linked to the exact page and I pasted the exact phrasing of this before. Serino did not pull this out of his hat or his arse. Even though the vast majority of Zimmerman's statements to SPD that night were redacted there was one nugget of info in the autopsy report of Trayvon.

Pg 138 of 183
Medical Examiner Case Report
Case Summary:
ECC contacted Fl Malphurs of an apparent death in Sanford in the courtyard behind 2861 Retreat View Circle. Person of contact (POC) was SPD Inv. Serino. POC advised of an unknown B/M who had been shot by a resident of the complex. POC stated the following:

At approximately 1910 hours on 02/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. That resident advised of a B/M who was at the complex between the townhomes. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch. Shortly after the call the resident confronted the male and the two began to physically fight. Witnesses observed the two fighting in the yard and then the resident fired a handgun at the male striking him in the chest. The male fell to the ground. SPD and SFD arrived on scene. The male was pronounced dead at 1930 hours. The identity of the male was unknown.

Link for the above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/S...-by-prosecutor


So, does this mean that Zimmerman was lying then or now? And since Zimmerman himself claimed to have confronted Trayvon can we now conclude that he did in fact instigate the confrontation?

MOO


As far as has been reported, GZ was not "walking his neighborhood watch" either. And since we don't have GZ's statement(s) to check against, we'll have to wait till they come out to know whether this is departmental miscommunication or if GZ really said he was walking his neighborhood watch and that he confronted TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO
 
The act of getting out of his car does not make him guilty of murder on its own. There are other factors that added to that act that make him guilty of murder.

Unfortunately for Zimmerman he neglected to do what he had been advised by not only the non-emergancy dispatcher but also by the official that was in charge of the Neighborhood Watch Volunteer training class.

This is not a case of one simple act being the reason behind the charges. There are (apparently) numerous things added up that resulted in his arrest. Zimmerman admitted to starting or instigating the confrontation. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. Zimmerman has (apparently) not been truthful in his version of events that occured that night. Zimmerman's account of events do not (apparently) match up to the evidence of what occured that night.

Now, as some have pointed out, all of this could have very easily been avoided had Zimmerman simply waited in his car for SPD to arrive and allow them to handle Trayvon. Zimmerman getting out of his car was simply the first step in the list of things that got the ball rolling.

MOO

BBM

That is not a fact until I see that GZ did in fact say that to investigators. Taking a sentence from an ME's report that was given to him as 2nd (3rd?) hand information when GZ wasn't even interrogated at that point isn't proof he confronted TM.
 
You understand that report was what was initially told to the ME's office when they arrived at the scene? At that point, Serino (nor anyone else) had not even interrogated GZ yet on what his story was. Serino was probably getting his information from both dispatch and the officer on the scene.

I don't believe that Serino received any information from the dispatcher that said that Zimmerman told him that he was walking his neighborhood watch or that he confronted Trayvon. Neither of those are on the recording. In fact on the recording you can clearly hear that Zimmerman exited a vehicle. So there goes the walking his watch idea. Also at the point in time when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon he was no longer on the phone with the dispatcher, so there goes that one. Serino received this information from somewhere. It apparently did not come from the dispatcher, there were no other witnesses to what occured from beginning to the end, so that leaves Zimmerman to tell the tale.

MOO
 
Zen, you taking the words of a liar, there was nothing to show that TM attacked him at all...everything is pointing to GZ and GZ alone..

The state will drive that fact home, had he not left the security of his vehicle, TM would be alive today...that is the first premise the state took into consideration...he never should have left his vehicle as told to not follow...why is everyone not taking that into consideration....everything the state has written the first sentence is, TM death could have been avoided if GZ stayed in his vehicle..

So, you can drive the fact home that it was TM who started this, yet the DNA evidence states otherwise...NO DNA of GZ on TM's hands...so he must have been quite the magician to beat him to a bloody pulp and not get his DNA onto GZ...and this alleged struggle over the gun, no DNA of TM there either..Hmmmmmm GZ is a liar, is my belief.

It's looking more and more like it was GZ who started the entire scenario...

So if NO DNA on TM means he didn't attack him, then I guess no DNA on GZ means he didn't attack TM, right? The reason people are not taking the fact that GZ left his car into consideration is because it was PERFECTLY LEGAL.

As far as GZ lying, YOU have NO proof of that, it is merely speculation, based on SUPPOSED contradictions in his statements, which HAVEN'T been released yet.
 
I don't believe that Serino received any information from the dispatcher that said that Zimmerman told him that he was walking his neighborhood watch or that he confronted Trayvon. Neither of those are on the recording. In fact on the recording you can clearly hear that Zimmerman exited a vehicle. So there goes the walking his watch idea. Also at the point in time when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon he was no longer on the phone with the dispatcher, so there goes that one. Serino received this information from somewhere. It apparently did not come from the dispatcher, there were no other witnesses to what occured from beginning to the end, so that leaves Zimmerman to tell the tale.

MOO

Read Serino's report starting on page 20. I don't see anywhere in the beginning where he started talking to GZ.
 
So then Serino lied to the ME office and allowed that lie to be put onto an official report?
 
So then Serino lied to the ME office and allowed that lie to be put onto an official report?

IDK. Maybe it was an assumption, maybe it was relayed to him by someone else. All I know is in his own report, he doesn't mention that he spoke to GZ about what happened that night and I would think that would be in his report if he did.

It's not like this investigation was by the book from day one.
 
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