OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1

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Wudge said:
Yes, there would not be an expectation to find any 'touch' DNA. The only place a lab could hope to find touch DNA would be on tape that had been wrapped over itself; that is, if tape was, indeed, used on your Father's arms or hands.

Is there anyone in your family to whom LE has confided as regards some of this basic information on evidence they've obtained about your Father's murder?

It's one thing for LE to withhold letting out a critical piece of information or two that only the murderer would know, but it seems to me that they are keeping the family totally in the dark on most everything. If it were me, I would be forcing the issue -- as I described in prior posts. At a minimum, I would have an attorney make contact with whomever is heading up the case. You and your family have a right to know what progress they have made, if any. I would not wait for this to turn into a cold case.
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THANK YOU- I AM JUST WORRIED THAT IF I MAKE THE WRONG PEOPLE (LE) MAD THEN WHAT IF THEY DO NOT WORK ON MY DADS CASE AS HARD. I WOULD JUST DIE IF I WERE THE REASON THAT THE KILLER STAYED FREE. I WILL CONTACT OUR ATTORNEY AND SEE WHAT HE SUGGESTS. I DO FEEL LIKE I AM IN THE DARK FOR SURE AND IT IS TAKING FOREVER. I WAS SO HOPING THAT THE KILLER(S) WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY NOW. CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE WALKING AROUND AND COULD KILL AGAIN ANYDAY? I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A COLD CASE. I JUST DO NOT WANT TO MESS THIS INVESTIGATION UP. I AM SO AGGRAVATED. :furious:
 
yosande said:
mmd, i was wondering if you have talked to the customer who arrived before the gf/employee?

The impression i got was that the customer happened upon the scene, and went in search of your dad around the area, when the gf showed up. So having thought he saw the blood, i'm now thinking he couldn't get inside b/c the door was locked, so he went looking around outside. The gf showed up, unlocked the door, then they discovered the hat, blood, and whatever else caused them to think a scuffle occurred.
Also, did you talk to the gf about what she saw, or if she suspects anyone?
Also, is she still living in the area? Is she working somewhere?
I wonder if he had a life insurance policy with her as beneficiary, and if that might have been what was taken from the safe in the home?
Ok, that is a wild imagination, with no basis to think it so. Just covering all bases.

So do you know if she has bought a new car, or wearing nicer newer clothes.

I don''t have any reason to suspect her, and i don't, unless her and the customer have a history, moved there near the same time, and he has a new car and clothes too.

My thoughts and prayers are with you at this time. I'm truly sorry for your loss.
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the first customer was a regular and came often, the front door was unlocked-he walked right in. He saw dads truck there though. So he assumed dad was right there somewhere. He walked around a couple minuted then back out to dads truck back in again, then gf shows up, door still ulocked, door locks with dead bolt. I talked to gf she does not know anyone who didn't like dad either. She still lives in the same place and works in a local bar where all the bar maids from dads bar went to work after he was killed.she still drives the same vehicle too no i have not noticed her wearing any nicer clothes etc but i have not been around her. Or the customer either, i have not ever seen him again, but he still lives here, i think he has always lived around here. I have not seen gf but a couple of times over last 4 months.
 
vegas bride said:
during the time when your father was missing and everyone was looking for him, thinking back on it now, was there anybody who seemed overly annimated, putting themselves front and center of the search, someone who went above and beyond anyone else?
Someone wanting to know all the details of the search? Or someone who kept coming around after your father was found to perhaps find out all the information they could about how the investigation was going?

Vb
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very good question, but i was so out of my mind. I remember bits and pieces and then there are some things i can remember like it was 10 minutes ago. I remember standing at the bar door on friday, we all met there and were searching again. I stood there looking through the glass as if to just get one more glimpse of anything that would remind me of my dad. I was looking for blood or anything, i do not know why but i stood there and i remember sliding down the door. My legs totally gave out and i sat there and cried like a baby. And i did not even care about the world- all i cared about was my poor dad and where he was. He never would have left and made us worry, never, and i knew it. So i knew that it was something bad. I just didnt know what. I certainly didnt think someone would have killed him and dumped him. That is just sick. Who would do that? What kind of twisted person?
Anyway i do not think any one really made a spectacle of themselves, i think that anything suspicious my friends would have pointed that out to me later. Or family would have mentioned. So far i have not heard anything like that. I just wish i could remember the days right after, but maybe it is best that i don't remember. I just want to know who would do this.
 
I wish that the le would tell us more. The only thing i can think of is that maybe they think it is one of the family members and if too much info gets out then it will go to the killer. We obviously do not want them to have any extra info. But i want to know more details so bad. I don't know why i think it will be better once i know. Knowing the details is not going to bring my dad back but it could get the crazy person off the street. I will call the attorney and just ask what is legal for me to find out. Then i will call and see what they tell me. Usually it is they are still following up on leads or whatever but nothing detailed. Even when i ask specifics i get very vague answers and i do not know where to direct the conversation from there. Aahhhh!! Drives me crazy, please wish me luck everyone, thanks!
 
missingmydad said:
the first customer was a regular and came often, the front door was unlocked-he walked right in. He saw dads truck there though. So he assumed dad was right there somewhere. He walked around a couple minuted then back out to dads truck back in again, then gf shows up, door still ulocked, door locks with dead bolt. I talked to gf she does not know anyone who didn't like dad either. She still lives in the same place and works in a local bar where all the bar maids from dads bar went to work after he was killed.she still drives the same vehicle too no i have not noticed her wearing any nicer clothes etc but i have not been around her. Or the customer either, i have not ever seen him again, but he still lives here, i think he has always lived around here. I have not seen gf but a couple of times over last 4 months.
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For your own piece of mind, maybe you are ready to speak to both of them about the blood/bar? You do not have to share it here; but if you knew how much blood was there; and where it was located, it might help you to know that yes, he passed there or no he did not.

The longer you wait, the less they will remember.

HUGS.


.
 
missingmydad said:
THANK YOU- I AM JUST WORRIED THAT IF I MAKE THE WRONG PEOPLE (LE) MAD THEN WHAT IF THEY DO NOT WORK ON MY DADS CASE AS HARD. I WOULD JUST DIE IF I WERE THE REASON THAT THE KILLER STAYED FREE. I WILL CONTACT OUR ATTORNEY AND SEE WHAT HE SUGGESTS. I DO FEEL LIKE I AM IN THE DARK FOR SURE AND IT IS TAKING FOREVER. I WAS SO HOPING THAT THE KILLER(S) WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY NOW. CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE WALKING AROUND AND COULD KILL AGAIN ANYDAY? I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A COLD CASE. I JUST DO NOT WANT TO MESS THIS INVESTIGATION UP. I AM SO AGGRAVATED. :furious:
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I appreciate your concern.

At a minimum, have your attorney request a review of the evidence upon which LE based their decision that your Father's safe had been robbed. His estate has a right to know how much LE deems to have been stolen -- your Father's home insurance policy might well cover some or all of the amount stolen.

It would also be excellent if they would confirm whether or not his hands or arms were taped and, if so, did LE recover the roll of tape.
 
Missingmydad, has LE ever said positively that the blood in the bar was your father's blood?
 
Wudge said:
At a minimum, have your attorney request a review of the evidence upon which LE based their decision that your Father's safe had been robbed. His estate has a right to know how much LE deems to have been stolen -- your Father's home insurance policy might well cover some or all of the amount stolen.
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Very good point

Wudge said:
It would also be excellent if they would confirm whether or not his hands or arms were taped and, if so, did LE recover the roll of tape.
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One thing I have to say is I highly doubt recovering the roll would do anything. What we see on TV with them comparing how the tape was ripped or cut; doesn't happen in real life from what I know.


.
 
wudge said:
i appreciate your concern.

At a minimum, have your attorney request a review of the evidence upon which le based their decision that your father's safe had been robbed. His estate has a right to know how much le deems to have been stolen -- your father's home insurance policy might well cover some or all of the amount stolen.

It would also be excellent if they would confirm whether or not his hands or arms were taped and, if so, did le recover the roll of tape.
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i did call the insurance company just to check if any amount would be covered and they only cover up to $200.00 if it was cash stolen. Funny huh? The deductible is more than that. We still do not have medical examiner report. I have called and they stated that it cold take anywhere from 3-6 months, but we are over that now. The toxicology reports are not finished. So who knows. I figure that a lot of details may be in that but some i may not want to hear. I am afraid to see it when it does get released.
 
yellowdog said:
missingmydad, has le ever said positively that the blood in the bar was your father's blood?
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i do not think i ever heard them say but i did offer dna the day he went missing and they already had the info they needed. So i assume they know for sure. I know i have heard it somewhere, but i would have to ask to be certain where i heard it.
 
missingmydad said:
i do not think i ever heard them say but i did offer dna the day he went missing and they already had the info they needed. So i assume they know for sure. I know i have heard it somewhere, but i would have to ask to be certain where i heard it.
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speak to the new task force. Ask why they don't need your DNA and how they know who's blood it was.
 
Roselvr said:
Very good point



One thing I have to say is I highly doubt recovering the roll would do anything. What we see on TV with them comparing how the tape was ripped or cut; doesn't happen in real life from what I know.


.
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I don't disagree. However, my interest in the tape is, first, to verify that tape was, indeed, used to retrain Mr. Neff's arms. Second, I want to know if they found the roll of tape and if so, where? Was it tape that was kept in the bar?

If the murderers brought the tape with them, we can cancel out any thought that what took place -- murder and a likely kidnapping and home robbery -- did not stem from a plan.
 
You had mentioned that your father had recently sold his trash business. What are the folks like that he sold it to? Are they from that area?
 
Wudge said:
I don't disagree. However, my interest in the tape is, first, to verify that tape was, indeed, used to retrain Mr. Neff's arms. Second, I want to know if they found the roll of tape and if so, where? Was it tape that was kept in the bar?

If the murderers brought the tape with them, we can cancel out any thought that what took place -- murder and a likely kidnapping and home robbery -- did not stem from a plan.
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Thanks; wasn't sure which way you were going with wanting to know about the tape.

Depending on what type of tape it was; it could have been in someone's car. I'm pretty sure I have a roll of duct tape in mine.

If his hands were taped; I'd also want to know if his hands were behind his back; because to me, I'd think someone put him in a trunk and wanted to make sure he did not use his hands to get out. I also wonder if it was the gunshot that killed him or if he was wounded and the water finished it.

To me, I'd imagine he would kick whatever was on top of him (such as truck bed cover) to try to get out if he was conscious. I can't see them driving with him at that time of the day in the open.



Missingmydad, sorry to be so graphic. Writing it is not easy for me; it rips my heart out just trying to find the words to type, knowing that you are here reading. I can't imagine how hard it is for you to read. Please know that whatever I do type; I do so with a very heavy heart. These are the 1st holiday's without your dad which is hard enough on you; to try to come here, read and give input really has to wipe you out emotionally. You know where to "find me" if you need to talk.

picture.php



.
 
Wudge said:
I don't disagree. However, my interest in the tape is, first, to verify that tape was, indeed, used to retrain Mr. Neff's arms. Second, I want to know if they found the roll of tape and if so, where? Was it tape that was kept in the bar?

If the murderers brought the tape with them, we can cancel out any thought that what took place -- murder and a likely kidnapping and home robbery -- did not stem from a plan.
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very true, if they planned it they would have brought all items they needed with them ex: gun, whatever...so then we would know if they had arranged the meeting, not just an argument gone bad.
 
sameole said:
You had mentioned that your father had recently sold his trash business. What are the folks like that he sold it to? Are they from that area?
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my sister and her husband bought it several years ago. so its not about that.
 
roselvr said:
thanks; wasn't sure which way you were going with wanting to know about the tape.

Depending on what type of tape it was; it could have been in someone's car. I'm pretty sure i have a roll of duct tape in mine.

If his hands were taped; i'd also want to know if his hands were behind his back; because to me, i'd think someone put him in a trunk and wanted to make sure he did not use his hands to get out. I also wonder if it was the gunshot that killed him or if he was wounded and the water finished it.

To me, i'd imagine he would kick whatever was on top of him (such as truck bed cover) to try to get out if he was conscious. I can't see them driving with him at that time of the day in the open.



missingmydad, sorry to be so graphic. Writing it is not easy for me; it rips my heart out just trying to find the words to type, knowing that you are here reading. I can't imagine how hard it is for you to read. Please know that whatever i do type; i do so with a very heavy heart. these are the 1st holiday's without your dad which is hard enough on you; to try to come here, read and give input really has to wipe you out emotionally. You know where to "find me" if you need to talk.

picture.php



.
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don't worry. Yes it is very hard but i am determined to figure this out. Any questions, please ask. I know that it is graphic, but the reality is this monster shot and killed my dad and dumped him like trash. I know it, i would rather know the truth than wonder, even though the truth is terrible. The horrible things i imagine are worse
ok- the death certificate states that cause of death was gunshot wound to head. So water did not do it. I don't have me report but the dc indicates he was dead when he hit water, praise god. I worried about that day and night for weeks, scared they threw him in the water and drowned him, horrible. We had heard a few witnesses saw red truck, no word of bed cover etc, but no mention of car, i wonder if a car did come and he was put in trunk. I find it hard to see how they made it all that way with dad in bed of truck..?..! I thank you all for your efforts, keep them questions coming, i will do my best to answer. Thank you so much to all of you from the bottom of my heart.
 
missingmydad said:
very true, if they planned it they would have brought all items they needed with them ex: gun, whatever...so then we would know if they had arranged the meeting, not just an argument gone bad.
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Exactly.

This is why I previously asked for an understanding of how LE determined that the safe in the house was truly robbed as well as how LE determined exactly how much was taken.

As regards the duct tape, if you talk to the barmaids, they would likely know if duct tape was kept in the bar.

Someone in the family should try to independently collect all the information they can on behalf of the family. It's absurd that LE is keeping most everything in the way of probative or inferential evidence from the family and not providing progress reports to boot.

FWIW
 
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