The Marines are not charging Laurean with Murder, Rape, Desertion, Adultery, or anything else for that matter. At this point in time, all the USMC claims to have done is list Laurean as UA. (The penalty for UA is a slap on the hand and then all is forgiven and forgotten.) No military or civilian LE has made any statement as to Laurean's whereabouts. One reporter claims to have interviewed someone in Mexico, but that has not been substiantiated by any LE or the USMC. The only step I have seen taken by LE/USMC (who knows who is in charge here??), was to place some kind of electronic billboards up in Maria's hometown. As if Laurean would flee there?? Something stinks to high heaven of High Treason.:furious:
The Rape Allegations/Investigation
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The Marines are not charging Laurean with Murder, Rape, Desertion, Adultery, or anything else for that matter. At this point in time, all the USMC claims to have done is list Laurean as UA. (The penalty for UA is a slap on the hand and then all is forgiven and forgotten.) No military or civilian LE has made any statement as to Laurean's whereabouts. One reporter claims to have interviewed someone in Mexico, but that has not been substiantiated by any LE or the USMC. The only step I have seen taken by LE/USMC (who knows who is in charge here??), was to place some kind of electronic billboards up in Maria's hometown. As if Laurean would flee there?? Something stinks to high heaven of High Treason.:furious:
Seven
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It definitely stinks. Something doesn't jibe.
There's something wrong when Americans can see, before their very eyes on 01-22-08 (as was replayed tonight), Harris Whitlock (the CNN bureau chief in Mexico City) interviewing CL's cousin in Guadalajara. I thought it might be a bit presumptuous of Whitlock when he asked the cousin for his ID, and the cousin showed it to him (while the cnn camera was rolling), but then while the story was being broadcast, they showed a close-up of the cousin's ID.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): We`re in the city of Guadalajara where Laurean`s family originally was from. We just spoke to a young man by the name of Juan Antonio Ramos who it says he is a cousin of Cesar Laurean. And he told us that his cousin visited him here in Guadalajara just about one week ago.
(On camera) Have you been in touch with your cousin lately?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes. The other day.
WHITBECK: He called you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, he stopped by.
WHITBECK: Cesar Armando? The one who lives in the United States. He came to see you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, just a few days ago. Last week.
WHITBECK: Is this he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, this is he.
WHITBECK (voice over): We asked him if at the time he knew of the charges that have been levied against his cousin, and he said no. Shortly after that visit, he saw the news on CNN that his cousin was being looked for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/22/ng.01.html
Wait a minute, Truly .... I just thought of something .... when you said neither LE nor the marines have substantiated it ... are you thinking they might claim it was a ruse cooked up by CL's cousin to point the arrow at Mexico while CL was actually in, say, Canada?
IOW, they can't deny what the cousin said,
but they could deny that the cousin was being truthful?
No, Seven, I am suggesting that the USMC may have cooked up a ruse suggesting CL is in Mexico, while he (and xtina) are actually in...say...Afghanistan.
Seven
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Woah doggies! <she said sounding like rosco p. coltrane from dukes of hazard>
Not that it couldnt happen to a nicer pair <wink>
If that did happen, would USMC be under obligation to notify Onslow County sheriff's department?
I'm sure the other deployed Marines would be delighted to get their hands on the two!Seriously, though, I don't think the troops involved in that announcement have left LeJeune yet.
The marines would have listed him as UA when he didn't report to work on 1/11,once the whole nine yards came out and it was apparent he wasn't coming back they would upgrade it to desrter.Then they can issue a DD553 and get assistance from other agencies in tracking him down.About Quantico.I know that it is classified first as a Marine Corps base,but I'm not sure if the FBI is a subordinate comand there.
I honestly don't think Maria was going to leave the area.She was 8.5 months pregnant.If she leaves the area she's leaving her free medical care.I know the Marines do have day care on base.I'm not sure how it would effect her deployment status.At eight and a half months and being bed ridden quite a bit I doubt she was doing a bus trip to Texas.I used the bus station she did to come home to NJ once.It takes 8-10 hours if I drove.On the bus it left at 8am and got to NJ at 230am.About 15 hours and that's just a 370 mile trip.
Another thing,she was being harrassed on base and was lonely and felt left out.If she goes to Texas she's really alone and is going to have no one to help her with the baby.She'll be a fugitive basically and have no medical or pay coming in.If she goes to Mexico to meet up with CL she's really gonna stick out there and still be alone.
Another thing,she was being harrassed on base and was lonely and felt left out.If she goes to Texas she's really alone and is going to have no one to help her with the baby.She'll be a fugitive basically and have no medical or pay coming in.If she goes to Mexico to meet up with CL she's really gonna stick out there and still be alone.
Welcome aboard, davenj!
You just brought up an interesting question. If Maria and Cesar were in the same formations, etc., would they have been able to stay "1000 feet apart" at all times, as they had been ordered by 1) company commander; 2) regimental commander?
Military Protective Order, according to the Marine Timeline:
05-12-07 .... Verbal order to Cpl Laurean to "stay a minimum of 1000 feet from" Maria.
09-20-07 .... written MPO (for 9/20 thru 12/23) issued by regimental commander.
http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html
I ask because, if there were daily situations that would require them to be less than 1000 feet apart, then the orders were knowingly contradictory and logically and physically impossible to follow.
There is no way that you would be able to avoid someone in a formation.You also have to figure his buddies would be in the same barracks as her,you also would have the chowhall,PX and unit briefings/meetings where they would have been in close proximity.I really wish I could remember what show interviewed the JAG.I saw that before I started looking around and found this site..ugh!!
I agree. I don't know why she bought the bus ticket to El Paso. El Paso has nothing to do with her, but it has something to do with Laurean, since it's on the border with Mexico. Maybe Laurean told her that HE would leave if she bought him a bus ticket, just to get her to buy the ticket -- to help create his smoke screen that she had run away.
Thanks, davenj, your insight is very much appreciated. The reason I distrust the military timeline is that 'the whole nine yards' were grusomely revealed when Maria and her baby were dug out of the Laurean's backyard on Saturday, Jan 12. Before then, if fact, as LE had Laurean's note confessing to burying Maria at 8am on Jan 11th. Yet, as of the 15th, and to this day, there has not been one scrap of documentation that he has been listed as a deserter. There was an inexcusable 17-day delay of even starting the process of having him arrested. How many tries at a first down does this guy get? Is anybody even looking for him besides TV personalities? I think the USMC knows exactly where he is. And they are under no obligation to tell any LE in America what they know.
Seven
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I never realized that before, davenj, and it gets me really :furious:
Correct me if my math is wrong: 1000 feet.
There are 3 feet in a yard, so 1000 feet = 333 yards.
A footbal field is 100 yards, so 333 yards = 3 football fields!
From what you're saying, it was logically and physically impossible for Maria and Cesar to remain even 1 football field apart, let alone 3 football fields, right?
So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars, they knew blankety-blank well that the protective orders they issued would not be followed because they COULD NOT be followed ............ AND the very fact that they issued orders of that kind shows the Protective Orders were ........ nothing more than CYA--something to say to anyone who might question them on the alleged rape (or even in a press conference) to make it appear as though they had actually responded appropriately, taking Maria seriously, when what they were ACTUALLY DOING was throwing her to the wolves on a daily basis.
disgusting!
:laugh: :laugh:
(OT, Seven, you crack me up! )
I honestly think that there is an attempt to sweep this whole thing under the rug. I am hoping that some of the Marines who knew the Laureans, went to their big parties on Maria's grave, or have experienced the way the US military always deals with rape as a good ol boy sport, will develop a backbone and speak out. 'Course, everyone can plainly see what happened to Maria when she attempted to seek justice. But surely there are some Marines who posess the quality of courage? Has the $25,000.00 reward been splashed prominently across the front page of every paper that enlisted troops receive? That kind of money goes a long way in the communities which are heavily recruited. So far, I haven't heard a peep. I think the USMC knows where he is, and no LE has the authority to challenge them.
So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars
(OT, Seven, you crack me up!
)I honestly think that there is an attempt to sweep this whole thing under the rug. I am hoping that some of the Marines who knew the Laureans, went to their big parties on Maria's grave, or have experienced the way the US military always deals with rape as a good ol boy sport, will develop a backbone and speak out. 'Course, everyone can plainly see what happened to Maria when she attempted to seek justice. But surely there are some Marines who posess the quality of courage? Has the $25,000.00 reward been splashed prominently across the front page of every paper that enlisted troops receive? That kind of money goes a long way in the communities which are heavily recruited. So far, I haven't heard a peep. I think the USMC knows where he is, and no LE has the authority to challenge them.
I never realized that before, davenj, and it gets me really :furious:
Correct me if my math is wrong: 1000 feet.
There are 3 feet in a yard, so 1000 feet = 333 yards.
A footbal field is 100 yards, so 333 yards = 3 football fields!
From what you're saying, it was logically and physically impossible for Maria and Cesar to remain even 1 football field apart, let alone 3 football fields, right?
So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars, they knew blankety-blank well that the protective orders they issued would not be followed because they COULD NOT be followed ............ AND the very fact that they issued orders of that kind shows the Protective Orders were ........ nothing more than CYA--something to say to anyone who might question them on the alleged rape (or even in a press conference) to make it appear as though they had actually responded appropriately, taking Maria seriously, when what they were ACTUALLY DOING was throwing her to the wolves on a daily basis.
disgusting!
Formations aren't that big,a typical platoon is maybe 40-50 people.If CL was in Maria's work section he would know where she was daily.He was a corporal,she was a lance corporal so he would at least know someone who could tell him where she was.I knew where all my people where daily when I was a squad leader and could easily find out where other people where.He'd know when she went to NCIS,base legal and medical.
Dave, the Marine Corps has listed the "stellar" Laurean as UA. They have not charged him with desertion. The Marine Corps never listed the "solid" Maria Lauterbach as UA; instead they immediately charged her with desertion. Why is that, in your estimation? Are the strict rules followed in some circumstances, and completely disregarded in others?
Seven
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(OT, Seven, you crack me up!
I honestly think that there is an attempt to sweep this whole thing under the rug. I am hoping that some of the Marines who knew the Laureans, went to their big parties on Maria's grave, or have experienced the way the US military always deals with rape as a good ol boy sport, will develop a backbone and speak out. 'Course, everyone can plainly see what happened to Maria when she attempted to seek justice. But surely there are some Marines who posess the quality of courage?
You know, Truly, the more I think about this aspect of it, the more science fiction it seems well, some kinda fiction anyway. Dont they have a class for people who are in a position to be appointed to commander something basic like commanding 101? or commanding for dummies? you know, a class where they explain that its not practical to give orders that cannot be carried out?
OTOH, maybe their final class before being given advancement to commander is the art of the coverup. They apparently cant handle the truth.
The word cowardice is coming more frequently to mind. Facing up to the truth and doing something about it sometimes takes a lot more courage than going to war w/a group. .... Sad! :twocents:
Maria was listed as deserter immediatly because she was so far along in her prgnancy.This way they could get help from other agencies in locating her.CL is listed as UA from what I've seen/read.From personal experience though..when it becomes apparent a person isn't coming back and there are circumstances,especially like this one he'd go straight to deserter status.Command has final say on it.This way they can get outside help,stop his pay and whatever else they are allowed to do.I've seen people go UA,and desert just not with all the twists and turns like this.
Wouldn't Maria and CL be in seperate formations since she was moved across base? I would hope they would seperte them. From my experience this is the first thing you try to do - I had to investigate a much more minor allegation at an AF base - first thing I did was suggest the two parties involved be kept seperate and not allow them together without supervision. This case was not rape, just some acusation of one guy using his position as computer support team lead to harrass the other guy. Interesesting to note that the acusser was labeled by most as a very paranoid person kind of like the labels put on Maria. The accussed in my investigation was very charismatic and moved up chain fast. In the end, I could not prove for sure what had happend, only proved that soemthing happened on the day which the paranoid guy claimed. Commanders put note in these two civil service employees files to not allow them to be assigned together and to not have them in room alone together. Later, the CC of that unit told me that the acussed had been fired for unrelated reasons - pretty-much unheard of to fire a GS14. Military CCs handled wth whole thing well. I was dealing with JAG and IG not OSI (AF version of NCIS) and not SP (AF version of MP).
Note that one problem in this case is that NCIS is purposely seperate from MP and Maria and CL's command. NCIS is kept seperate so they can investigate without predjudice, etc. BUT, this is where communication was dropped both by USMC and by LE. From my experience, any LE around a military base would know to contact NCIS, MPs, and various folks in command chain - sherrif Brown's folks dropped the ball here ealry on in the missing person case...
Note that one problem in this case is that NCIS is purposely seperate from MP and Maria and CL's command. NCIS is kept seperate so they can investigate without predjudice, etc. BUT, this is where communication was dropped both by USMC and by LE. From my experience, any LE around a military base would know to contact NCIS, MPs, and various folks in command chain - sherrif Brown's folks dropped the ball here ealry on in the missing person case...
I'm a former Marine and I agree,the Marines did drop the ball big time.Sherrif Brown's people also dropped the ball.I personally find the level of non urgency and not taking the issue seriously on both sides disgusting.If they were both on the same page who knows what the outcome could have been.
Crime-Dreamer
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Does anyone know if a Marine on active duty has ever been convicted of murder? In civil court? Has a Marine on active duty ever been executed for a crime? For murder? Where could I find this information?
Maybe NG would find that one out for me?
Maybe NG would find that one out for me?