2008.07.22 Joyce and Bailey Dickens Interview

Wudge said:

In a complicity or an accessory-after-the-fact defense where evidence suggests others could be involved or be part of a cover-up and no physical evidence links the defendant to the alleged crime, such a defense would not be outlandish (not a twinkie defense). And more than a few things in your post would aid such a defense.

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So then are you saying that George and Cindy should be charged? Or could be charged? Or are you referring to the friends that I said have been helpful? And as far as I know we do not have all of the evidence before us yet to determine if there is any physical evidence linking the defendant to the crime.

missmybaby said:

The Dicken's surely did throw the A's under the bus, IMO they evidently heard KC and CA having verbal interactions, I actually had the feeling they may have gone out of their way to listen if the opportunity presented. (not accusing them of doing anything wrong, or even exaggerating, but there is certainly no love lost between the families...) it just seemed a little catty when they were describing the sale of Caylee's out grown clothes. Were they thinking it would have been better to hold on to all those items?

They are friends of Kiomarie, they believed her when she said Cindy doesn't like Hispanic's. (another thing we've seen no proof of and could have been another KC un-truth)


Caylee was 2!!!

sorry, slightly OT but on topic of what you are arguing about.

2 year olds are quickly overwhelmed at a park like Disneyland!! She should have had her whole life ahead of her to do Disney, Universal etc!!

It didn't sound to me like KC had been doing much of anything with Caylee except when she had a boyfriend, then she dragged her around. (While Cindy worked and Zany was unavailable -)

Her old friends, even the guys at the tat parlor said they hadn't seen Caylee since her 2nd BDay or before. Most of her friends said the same. KC had spent a few months with Ricardo, they didn't go out; I don't think he could remember 1 time where they went somewhere except for food ie; movies, theme park, etc.. they simply hung out at his house.

School/church carnivals, McD's play-park, are much closer to being the right speed for a two year old. Jesse G was asked where would Caylee be the happiest, his answer was right here at home, playing with her little toys, her little house. Or the park.

The A's were in the middle of financial collapse when all this went down. Those theme parks are very costly, (CA spent $10.00 parking the day she went to Universal) granted if KC was actually employed there, she would have had 10 free trips a year to share with friends and family... But food, extras all add up, a lot of money to blow when a) you can't afford it, b) you are totting a 2 yr old, who would rather be at home... :mears:

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I doubt that the Dickens had to strain their ears very much to hear those 2 (Cindy&Casey) going at each other.
No one really knows for sure exactly how Cindy feels towards Hispanics, so that is up in the air.
Caylee was practically 3 and she should have had some children at her birthday party instead of just Casey's friends all boozing it up.
Yes, Casey took Caylee to Ricardos, even letting her child sleep in the same bed with him, guess that's ok too?
When I lived in FL, I began taking my kids to DW at age 2, they loved it and we took tons of pictures. We have seen no pictures of Caylee anywhere having FUN! Of course she loved playing at home because that is all she knew.
If the A's were in the middle of financial collapse it sure wasn't obvious by Cindy's spending habits, (see receipts from June-08).
IMO, Caylee was a possession lavished with toys and clothes, but had no normal childhood in a real sense.

When I was growing up we had a neighbor with 3 teenage daughters and a teenage son. If my family called the police everytime a fight broke out with one of the daughters and the mother they would have been there on a daily basis.

cecybeans said:

We are all just venting here - I don't think for a minute that anyone is suggesting throwing the grandparents under a bus during the trial. It is certainly irrelevant to the case. The pictures tell us that Caylee was spared nothing material but they do not prove the quality of life she had emotionally. I would think that three adults who admittedly screamed at each other (CA's line to coworkers that KC was now yelling at GA more than she did), certainly enough for neighbors to overhear on quite a few occasions, make me think that a lot of things in that family were window dressing.

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Yes that's what bugs me so much - a lot of families fight, some louder than others - but they makeup and don't end up killing each other. But the A's try to act like "what?, we're perfect - never any fights." Then, it turns out, this is contrary to other peoples' testimonies.

Quiet families can have big problems going on too - it's not about that - it's about BEING HONEST ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE TIME even if it is embarrassing. We all have embarrassing in our lives (I think anyway). When I was a teenager, I ran down my street with my mom chasing after me because she was trying to ground me. Imagine her horror. Neither of us can even remember what that was about exactly but, at the time, it felt like the end of the world to her. She didn't deserve that from me; I was acting like a brat. I've since made it up to her.

If the A's had not been caught in so many lies, noone would be thinking ill of them today imo.

TorisMom003 said:

So then are you saying that George and Cindy should be charged? Or could be charged? Or are you referring to the friends that I said have been helpful? And as far as I know we do not have all of the evidence before us yet to determine if there is any physical evidence linking the defendant to the crime.

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No. I was just playing off the other poster as regards their noting the possibility of throwing someone under the bus, and that is certainly not inconceivable.

No one knows the circumstances of Caylee's death. And if Casey's attorneys were to adopt such a defense -- in whole or in part -- the Judge would likely be forced to instruct the jury on a non-included lesser offense. And they would also likely be further required to instruct the jury that it must acquit Casey if Casey were to be found guilty of that lesser offense.

notthatsmart said:

I think those pics are probably being held in fear of the media using them to make another circus. I am sure the family has a lot of those pics.

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If they do, they should release them then. They are all about promoting their own positive image to the world. Pictures like these may actually help their case (not Casey's). I admit that they are on trial in my own mind. I can't help it; I don't trust them. Something is not right with their stories - neither GA or CA - neither one. Something is just not right.

What would be their reason for keeping pictures like these under wraps?

Daylight/1257 said:

I keep thinking that CA sees an out and really won't have to divorce GA. All she has to do is throw him under the bus and she gets to keep it all for herself. House, book deals, everything. Even DC.

It's sort of a toss up to see which one of them gets their throwing arm warmed up first.

Sad end to what must have at one time been a loving family. The D family seems to think CA is the monster, but who can tell at this point?

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Well I wish someone would start swinging so we could get to the bottom of the woven web.

notthatsmart said:

I was refferring to the Bailey's throwing Ga and Ca under the bus. Staying on topic here. Their interview according this thread was July 22 08. We all know a lot more now, but at that point 7 days after the police got involved, the Bailey's went out of there way to bad mouth the Anthony's. I would not do such a thing. I think most people would not do such a thing. btw Did all the neighbors do this?

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I agree that they were not shy about expressing their opinions - especially Mr. D.
By the way, do we know where they live? Is it the house right next door to the A's or several houses down the block?
Plus I'd be interested to know if they even knew the A's personally or not. I tend NOT to get too worked up over people I don't even know or I'd be mad all the time!

notthatsmart said:

I think this is exactly what the defense wants. They want the neighbors to throw GA and CA under the bus. And if you are falling for this, you are playing right into their hands. This is prolly why it took so long to see this interview. I am not even sure where it came out in discovery or even if it did come out in discovery. The LE do not like these kind of statements because it points away from Casey.

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I have formulated my opinion about the A's without the Dickens help. That said, I want to know the truth and if asking questions upsets LE (which I doubt it does) then sobeit.

The situation points to KC - but there is a lot of other weird stuff going on here imo. I hope we get to find out why.

Woe.be.gone said:

If they do, they should release them then. They are all about promoting their own positive image to the world. Pictures like these may actually help their case (not Casey's). I admit that they are on trial in my own mind. I can't help it; I don't trust them. Something is not right with their stories - neither GA or CA - neither one. Something is just not right.

What would be their reason for keeping pictures like these under wraps?

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I think if there are pic's like this the A's would have sold them by now or are waiting to sell them.

I think the Dickens' are down to earth people who just wanted to help find Caylee. If I were the Dickens' and Kio had told me the same thing I would have been dialing the police before Kio even left my house. I could care less about KC or the A's and YES I would throw the lot of them under the bus as I would anyone if I had that kind of information to share with the police.

Horace Finklestein said:

Furthermore, to the topic - The Dickens and the other neighbors have absolutely no reason on Earth to lie or say anything untrue to about the situation. Talk about 'falling into their hands' - good lord that is so backwards! We'd be falling into the Anthony's trap to believe that not only the OCSO LE, FBI, Media, and casey's friends and extended family, Zanny, Casey's high school teachers were plotting against her and out to get her for no reason, now some people want to add the neighbors to this list? She must be the most persecuted person on the planet! What luck!

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Snipped bm - If we are to be totally honest, the Dickens were egged on by Kio. She had already filled their heads with her opinions for some reason - just saying. There is no way to know how the Dickens would have sounded regarding the A's if they had not already been "versed". moo.

Fair is fair.

ZsaZsa said:

It sounds to me that the Anthonys fear this man- he is privy to a lot of information about them that they would rather not be made public- including his conversation with Kio where she remarked that Caylee was most likely dumped over by the school - Casey's old habits let her down yet again. His testimony would really be worth watching.

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Isn't his testimony based on hearsay? Kio's?

I'm a little confused here. I think LE went to talk to the Dickens after they found out that Kio had been there - no?

Mr. Dickens sounded like a blue-collar LP (cowboy) to me (no offense but that's my sense of humor). He was grandstanding. I wouldn't put much weight into what he said quite honestly. Plus I didn't appreciate that he kept rolling over his wife's words. Talk about opposites - she's all sweet and demure and he's all bold and boisterous. It was funny but carried little weight imo. (Any of us can say anything about anyone - we all hear/see it differently.)

notthatsmart said:

I disagree. Casey took Caylee everywhere and is why all her friends knew Caylee. I can understand why Casey isn't in all the pics since Casey took the pics. Cindy George and Casey all had their own car seats. Cindy took Caylee to see her father for Fathers day. I think they took very good care of Caylee. I don't think throwing George and Cindy under the bus is going to fly to well with a jury that wants to hear the truth. There is plenty of evidence in the house pics to show me that Caylee lived under very favorable conditions. This is my opinion only.

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You are entitled to your opinion, of course. It is my opinion that Casey probably only had Caylee in many of those circumstances because she simply did not have a babysitter during the day.
Casey used Caylee as a prop, that is why there are so many pictures of the two of them where Casey held the camera out and plastered the plastic smile.

Besides other friends and family, I am always taking pictures of my sister with her kids when she is not expecting it. I try capturing those spontaneous loving moments and the beautiful bond between mother and children.
When she sweeps their hair back, looks at them lovingly, when they are being tickled or the babies come up behind her and hug her...

The ones Casey staged were down right creepy. It seemed she didn't have many other people taking pictures of her with her daughter. But I am sure if and when the camera came out, were the few times Caylee got interaction from her mom. All for show.

Like the one video we have seen of Casey balancing Caylee on her shins and George and Cindy are discussing the cameras video mode. "We're going to be all over the camera, we both are!"
It was extremely transparent and phony. It was clear both mother and child were not sure how to play with one another. Look at the way Caylee looks at her, to me it is almost disbelief.
Casey even sort of loosens her grip and let's Caylee roll off of her lap and onto the floor when she's done playing with her, as wipes her face she says "I need to.." and the video cuts out.

She surrounded herself for short periods of time with those she could fool with that phony exterior. That happened to be mostly other party kids who are so into themselves as well, they wouldn't notice that little but extremely important something missing. JMO

Woe.be.gone said:

I agree that they were not shy about expressing their opinions - especially Mr. D.
By the way, do we know where they live? Is it the house right next door to the A's or several houses down the block?
Plus I'd be interested to know if they even knew the A's personally or not. I tend NOT to get too worked up over people I don't even know or I'd be mad all the time!

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The Dickens live at 4913 Hopespring.
Mr Dickens sounds like a one man Neighborhood Watch. He doesn't seem to miss much that goes on.

Woe.be.gone said:

Isn't his testimony based on hearsay? Kio's?

I'm a little confused here. I think LE went to talk to the Dickens after they found out that Kio had been there - no?

Mr. Dickens sounded like a blue-collar JP (cowboy) to me (no offense but that's my sense of humor). He was grandstanding. I wouldn't put much weight into what he said quite honestly. Plus I didn't appreciate that he kept rolling over his wife's words. Talk about opposites - she's all sweet and demure and he's all bold and boisterous. It was funny but carried little weight imo. (Any of us can say anything about anyone - we all hear/see it differently.)

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He got on the phone pronto and told LE some good information (Kio and the area by the school) and some details of the Anthony family dynamic.. I don't think it was just his opinion at the time,as what he said has been found to be true. He was doing his civic duty, with a flourish.

ZsaZsa said:

He got on the phone pronto and told LE some good information (Kio and the area by the school) and some details of the Anthony family dynamic.. I don't think it was just his opinion at the time,as what he said has been found to be true. He was doing his civic duty, with a flourish.

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He called LE?

Woe.be.gone said:

He called LE?

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They came to interview him at his request is the way I recall. I will have to think where I read that and come back with it, but yes, he wanted to make sure they knew about Kio's statement.

The interview can be found in the All Interviews link on WS, post no. 1.
The man's first name is Bailey. I kept getting confused because Dickens is the last name - so they are JD and BD.

BD called Burner and got the number of Appey Wells from him. BD decided that Kio's info must be relayed to LE as he was unsure if Kio was going to relay it as he advised her to do.

Things I noted - BD knows Kio well (what's her last name umm Torres?) but spells her name Keo.

He reported to LE that KC liked to party. How does he know this? Because Kio would see her in the clubs. Anything wrong with this picture? (that cracked me up.)

Interesting that he has a son who is one year behind KC and went to school with her "all the years".

Kio's father (Raffeal) lives three doors down. LE says he will go there right after he finishes with the Dickens. Where is that interview? Have we seen it?

whiteangora said:

I doubt that the Dickens had to strain their ears very much to hear those 2 (Cindy&Casey) going at each other.
No one really knows for sure exactly how Cindy feels towards Hispanics, so that is up in the air.
Caylee was practically 3 and she should have had some children at her birthday party instead of just Casey's friends all boozing it up.
Yes, Casey took Caylee to Ricardos, even letting her child sleep in the same bed with him, guess that's ok too?
When I lived in FL, I began taking my kids to DW at age 2, they loved it and we took tons of pictures. We have seen no pictures of Caylee anywhere having FUN! Of course she loved playing at home because that is all she knew.
If the A's were in the middle of financial collapse it sure wasn't obvious by Cindy's spending habits, (see receipts from June-08).
IMO, Caylee was a possession lavished with toys and clothes, but had no normal childhood in a real sense.

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IIRC These are neighbors who have lived across the street from each other for years yet, have never spoken beyond a hello. Not even that, to CA.

This is not something I just read or just heard; this was in the very first doc drop a year or so ago. Statements that have nothing to do with anything, stuck in the back of my mind and colored not the A's but the person who said it, in an unfavorable light because it was gossip.

"No one really knows for sure exactly how Cindy feels towards Hispanics, so that is up in the air."

Exactly, but what did it or does it have to do with Caylee being missing and why then, was it repeated to LEO looking for a lost child? The same for the baby clothes CA sold at a garage sale; they may have all been gifts, hand-me-downs, consignment store purchases or things that were put out on a table that belonged to someone else.


If they saw or heard an argument absolutely; take notes or whip out a v-cam and catch it for posterity! I don't care, but repeating gossip and neighborhood drivel takes away from what they actually could have said, something that had some importance to it...

I also doubt that the Dickens had to strain, since apparently KC & CA take their disagreements to the driveway. Even GA was let in on the party, when KC f-ing gave him the f-ing gas cans, out of the back of her f-ing car! No way do I think that this was a isolated event. Little exchanges like this, if witnessed had a lot more to do with the dynamics of this family than what Caylee wore or not, that later ended up in a garage sale.

If my kid goes missing, I don't want to be judged on what some neighbor thinks about the clothes my kids have out grown...

"Yes, Casey took Caylee to Ricardos, even letting her child sleep in the same bed with him, guess that's ok too?"

Wait, wait, wait. I have never said I thought it was OK that Caylee was sleeping in RM's bed! Who around here has said anything about what was going on with Caylee; is OK? I merely commented on what RM said he and KC did with their time together.

I don't find it surprising that there are no theme park photo's of Caylee; I found my own kids had more fun at Disneyland after their third or fourth BDays, depending on which kid we are talking about.

I raised my kids in SO CAL, 1½ hours from Buena Park. Disney-Knott's was an annual trip. The youngest was only a couple months old her first time; she slept in her snuggly, woke up, ate, went back to sleep.

I remember very vividly, when she was 2½ trying to get her out of the stroller and on to the tram, to get back to the hotel, as she told me; "no-one-more-ride, mama, no-one-more-ride," in her sleep. The difference that a year makes, the next trip and ever after, she's always the last to want to leave.

KC dragged Caylee around, as it suited KC, not for the benefit of Caylee and there was nothing OK about KC dragging her daughter from one bf, to the next and the next, over a couple hours; Tony certainly showed more sense than KC by telling her "No, Caylee can't sleep here."

The lack of boundaries in this family is appalling, the way CA mauled the former body guard at JB Park was almost an assault, but it wasn't the first time. The night KC was taken out of the house in cuffs, JB showed up at the house for a late presser. The whole time he was speaking, he had CA pressing herself against his back. We don't have to look far, to understand KC's way's.

"Caylee was practically 3 and she should have had some children at her birthday party instead of just Casey's friends all boozing it up."

You must be referring to Caylee's 2nd BDay and I agree. Although I actually thought Christine, Holly and another friend with kids was there too, it just wasn't set up to be a kids party.

KC acted like some other mothers I have known; first in the group of friends to have a baby, so the baby is treated like a mini adult or a side show act. But in KC's case, several girls who had been close friends all had babies around the same time and still lived fairly close by. I guess their life-style just wasn't all that exciting and KC had bigger plans than potty training, on her mind.
My guess is KC just found their baby lust to be boring compared to hanging with boys. I would still love to know what KC and Christine talked about, the last time Christine saw Caylee at JB Park a few days before Father's Day.

"IMO, Caylee was a possession lavished with toys and clothes, but had no normal childhood in a real sense."

I absolutely agree with this, but I wonder if there is an underlying psychological condition (aside from KC being a lying-psycho-baby killer) that causes CA to have the issues she does. One Lost Girl and Brini have put a couple of books worth information and possible psychological profiles here that fit both CA and KC.

Little Angel Caylee, is not short of little friends in heaven.