Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #6

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Allusonz said:
From the length of the ruler i would gather that this had cm (metric) on one side and if you flip it has the inches on the other side. This a very common type of ruler
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It wouldn't matter how you flipped the ruler, the length of the knife has been officially measured to be 31 cm, or 12 inches.
 
Allusonz said:
They would state contamination and here is just a brief synopsis why:

We are supposed to believe that the knife was taken from RS's kitchen, used to kill MK, then returned back to RS's apartment but luminol testing in RS's apartment revealed no evidence of any clean up. No evidence of any kind was found in RS's apartment

1.Officer that testified at the trial said he used "police intuition" when choosing the knife from Raffaele's drawer but took nothing else out of the drawer for CONTROL EXPERIMENTS

2. No control experiments were run to follow the handling of the item from the field through to the laboratory. Remember this knife was collected from RS's appartment by the police, taken to the police station, sat there, then put in a open brown box and taken to the lab. The box was not tested. We have no idea how long the knife was actually at the police station, who had access to it etc.

3. Patrizia Stefanoni testified that it had tiny scratches on the side, compatible with intense scrubbing with bleach. Bleach destroys DNA. If you clean an item, you will remove the DNA before the blood and we know the knife tested negative for blood so if it had been cleaned how did the DNA get there?

Elizabeth A. Johnson, Ph.D

“If someone had a knife covered in blood and they tried to clean it very well, they would remove their ability to detect the DNA before they removed the ability to detect the chemical traces of blood.” Therefore, the lack of blood makes it impossible for there to be DNA on the knife, so the DNA that was observed has to arise from contamination."

Patrizia Stefanoni stated under oath that there is NEVER CONTAMINATION in her lab. Every expert i know states that contamination is an ongoing issue in their labs but in HER LAB NO CONTAMINATION EVER

I wont even go into the problems with the lab i think i have posted enough on the lab.
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Why doesn't Elizabeth, who has no connection with the case, mention the point about the knife being selected because it was on top of other things in the drawer, was particularly shiney (enough to stand out) and that one officer reported a smell of bleach? Why does Elizabeth claim that the knife was taken to the police station, left there and then put in an open box? The knife was bagged and boxed at the scene ... and because photos of the knife in the box during evidence collection were so well circulated, there has even been discussion about whether the knife was found in a box rather than in the kitchen drawer.

Did Elizabeth actually say those things? It seems to me that the only point E. Johnson and G. Hampikian are making is that the DNA results could be a result of contamination.

This is what the report says regarding the knife:

The kitchen knife:

The prosecution claims that DNA testing shows the presence of Amanda’s DNA on the handle and Meredith’s DNA on the blade. The following information pertains to the knife:

1. The knife was selected from among several knives in the kitchen drawer of Raffaele’s apartment. It was the only knife collected from the kitchen, although it had no visible stains or notable characteristics.

2. Testimony has been given in court that this knife could not have made two of the three slash wounds to the victim’s neck, but that a smaller knife could have made all three wounds. Furthermore, this knife did not match a bloody knife imprint left on the bed.

3. An extremely sensitive chemical test for the presumptive presence of blood, tetramethyl benzidine (TMB, a chemical capable of detecting at least a 1:10,000 dilution of blood), was negative for both the handle and blade.

4. A swabbing of the handle revealed the presence of Amanda’s DNA. This is not unexpected since she had used the kitchen knives to prepare food at Raffaele’s apartment.

5. A swabbing of the center portion of the flat edge of the blade was taken for further analysis. This sample tested negative for blood with TMB.

a. An extremely low level, partial DNA profile was developed for the blade swabbing using the Identifiler kit. The alleles detected were consistent with the DNA of the victim. The highest peak in the electropherogram was approximately 100 relative fluorescence units (rfu), while 21 of the 29 peaks that were detected and labeled as alleles fell between 20 and 50 rfu.

b. This DNA does not originate from blood. A highly sensitive chemical test for blood was negative, and it is unlikely that all chemically detectable traces of blood could be removed while retaining sufficient cells to produce a DNA profile consistent with the victim.

c. Numerous samples were collected from the crime scene that were tested and shown to contain high quantities of the victim’s DNA. There exists the real possibility that the low level, partial profile attributed to the knife blade is a result of unintended transfer in the laboratory during sample handling. Numerous examples of this have been documented by other laboratories.

d. Electronic (.fsa) files that would allow independent analysis of the data have not been disclosed.

e. Neither the extraction nor amplification of the low template DNA from the kitchen knife blade was duplicated. The test can not be reproduced as the swab and DNA extract were consumed during testing.
 
Here we go ... the knife, in a box, with a 12 inch ruler that measures both inches and centimeters.

knoxknife.jpg
 
Things that I have found to be true, even though the lies are repeated and used to suggest guilt:

1. There were no proven "bloody" footprints of RS or AK anywhere. None.
2. No evidence of "blood" on the 12in knife from RS's apartment.
3. No one purchased bleach on the morning after.
4. No evidence of a clean up at the cottage. No bleach used (which luminol would react with and show as smears).
5. AK never had phone contact with RG
6. No forensic evidence had been processed when Mignini boasted his
"sex games gone bad" theory.
7. RS computer actually did watch the movie Amelie
8. No fingerprints, shoeprints, footprints, hair, or DNA of AK in MK's room
9. No CCTV footage of AK going to the cottage that night.
10. No one was involved in a satanic cult.
11. Amanda did not take a shower in a room covered in blood. There were a few small drops and a diluted half-footprint on the bathmat.
12. AK never offered any serious theory that RS put a knife in her hand to implicate her in the murder. She was stating an impossible scenario as can be seen by the context of her writing.
13. RS called the police BEFORE the postal police or the carbinieri got there. (why else would they be waiting outside?)
14. RS and AK were not "surprised" at the cottage holding a mop and bucket. The mop was not involved at all.
15. AK had not put her own laundry in the wash that night or morning, it was MK's.

I'm sure there are many I missed. Feel free to add and rearrange. I'm just so sick of hearing lies and half-truths perpetuated even after all this time.
 
I read Amanda and her attorneys are going to sue Lifetime if they don't cancel the movie/commercials and internet ads. They also sent letters to Google and you-tube asking them to pull the ads.

What I posted above, the possibility of stirring up negative publicity in hopes of advertisers pulling out, i was actually thinking along the lines of how people campaigned against Fox over G. Beck, isn't this sort of what happened?

and Didn't Obama sign a new law protecting US citizens right to free speech abroad. In other words, doesn't the First Amendment take priority (over foreign laws) and protect a US defendant from a foreign lawsuit regarding libel issues ... how exactly does this law work?

are the attorneys trying to stall the movie from airing or do they have actual grounds for a lawsuit? and Wasn't she given an extra year plus a fine for defamation - does this new law protect her in any way and does it prevent her from filing defamation suits in the future?


I apologize for all the ques. - tia
 
miley said:
I guess they could start creating bad press, full page ads or however it's done.. basically start lobbying hard against the movie in hopes of stirring up enough negative publicity that the sponsors back out of advertising.
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They could try, but I think it takes a public figure such as Ronald Reagan to galvanize enough support to affect advertising. Yes, we're very interested in the case here, but even at WS, I doubt more than a small minority could tell you anything about it.

And at some point, if you raise a big enough fuss, you end up looking like you have something to hide.

I don't know whether or how often American TV movies are shown in Italy; nor do I know how much time passes between American and foreign premieres. So it's not as though a jury pool will be tainted (and, of course, unless a new trial is ordered (and I'm not even sure that's how Italian appeals work), there won't even be another jury).
 
trillian said:
I'm just so sick of hearing lies and half-truths perpetuated even after all this time.
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AMEN, Trillian! Excellent list too. Rumors presented as facts is so very tiring. Justice for MK is important, but throwing people into jail for 25+ yrs if they are innocent is a travesty. And I'm sad to say I think that very well may have happened in this case. I'm sure about RG's guilt. 100%. I'm not at all sure about AK or RS's involvement and I also believe the chief prosecutor is corrupt.
 
otto said:
The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.
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Sorry, I didn't mean the knife got longer, obviously. I just meant seeing it next to the ruler dramatized the knife's size.

Most Americans own a 12" ruler, I suspect, and one can imagine carrying it out for the evening. Really inconvenient. Now imagine it had the weight of a steak knife...
 
It's laughable that someone would choose to carry a 12" knife out with them if they didn't have to. And really, why would AK or RS have needed to? RS had his own (folding) knife.
 
Allusonz said:
From the length of the ruler i would gather that this had cm (metric) on one side and if you flip it has the inches on the other side. This a very common type of ruler
Click to expand...

Folks, folks, folks! I am an American, but old enough to have learned the metric system back when we were supposed to be converting.

I swear I recognized the markings in the photo as centimeters and nothing about the photo changed my understanding of the knife's size (12").

I merely meant that the photo dramatized my skepticism that AK or anyone else would carry such a knife out of RS' apartment as a plaything.
 
otto said:
The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.
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<mod snip> Nobody has questioned the length of the knife.

I went back to my original post: all I said was that seeing the knife next to a ruler confirmed my certainty that the knife is too big to make a convenient toy. I said nothing to indicate I had confused centimeters with inches, nor did Allusonz.

12" is a good sized knife, several inches larger than the steak knives we use at my house. Now that means nothing in itself; but when the prosecution claims the knife was taken from RS' apartment and used to murder MK, one has to wonder why?

Unless and until somebody proves there was a shortage of knives at AK/MK's cottage, I don't believe AK or RS took that knife over there.
 
SleuthyGal said:
AMEN, Trillian! Excellent list too. Rumors presented as facts is so very tiring. Justice for MK is important, but throwing people into jail for 25+ yrs if they are innocent is a travesty. And I'm sad to say I think that very well may have happened in this case. I'm sure about RG's guilt. 100%. I'm not at all sure about AK or RS's involvement and I also believe the chief prosecutor is corrupt.
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Since NONE of that stuff was used against AK or RS at trial to find them guilty it is not important IMO. Rumors were not what got them convicted.
 
dgfred said:
Since NONE of that stuff was used against AK or RS at trial to find them guilty it is not important IMO. Rumors were not what got them convicted.
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It matters to this discussion because many of those claims have been made here. Not by you, I'm sure, but made here nonetheless.
 
dgfred said:
Since NONE of that stuff was used against AK or RS at trial to find them guilty it is not important IMO. Rumors were not what got them convicted.
Click to expand...

You need to re-read that list then, dgfred. Points 1, 3, 4, 6, 13 were all part of the trial. Additionally, most of the other points may have had an impact on the jury and public opinion in general on Amanda's guilt. The well could have been poisoned as those jury members were fed all this false information before the trial and may have entered the courtroom with preconceived notions.
 
trillian said:
Things that I have found to be true, even though the lies are repeated and used to suggest guilt:

1. There were no proven "bloody" footprints of RS or AK anywhere. None.
2. No evidence of "blood" on the 12in knife from RS's apartment.
3. No one purchased bleach on the morning after.
4. No evidence of a clean up at the cottage. No bleach used (which luminol would react with and show as smears).
5. AK never had phone contact with RG
6. No forensic evidence had been processed when Mignini boasted his
"sex games gone bad" theory.
7. RS computer actually did watch the movie Amelie
8. No fingerprints, shoeprints, footprints, hair, or DNA of AK in MK's room
9. No CCTV footage of AK going to the cottage that night.
10. No one was involved in a satanic cult.
11. Amanda did not take a shower in a room covered in blood. There were a few small drops and a diluted half-footprint on the bathmat.
12. AK never offered any serious theory that RS put a knife in her hand to implicate her in the murder. She was stating an impossible scenario as can be seen by the context of her writing.
13. RS called the police BEFORE the postal police or the carbinieri got there. (why else would they be waiting outside?)
14. RS and AK were not "surprised" at the cottage holding a mop and bucket. The mop was not involved at all.
15. AK had not put her own laundry in the wash that night or morning, it was MK's.

I'm sure there are many I missed. Feel free to add and rearrange. I'm just so sick of hearing lies and half-truths perpetuated even after all this time.
Click to expand...

I think many people could write the same list with the heading "things that I have found to be untrue".
 
Nova said:
Sorry, I didn't mean the knife got longer, obviously. I just meant seeing it next to the ruler dramatized the knife's size.

Most Americans own a 12" ruler, I suspect, and one can imagine carrying it out for the evening. Really inconvenient. Now imagine it had the weight of a steak knife...
Click to expand...

A regular dinner knife is between 9 and 12 inches, depending on the style, just like the knife in question, and similar in length to the knife that was found on the ground outside of Filomina's bedroom. Regardless of how "big" or "heavy" someone may believe the knife to be, it does match one of the injuries to Meredith.
 
Does anyone have a timeline for the evening of Nov. 1 that you consider reliable?

I'm very curious about the 10pm call to MK's bank. I have read that call described both as an attempt to access her accounts and a mere misdial.

If it was the former, then I don't see how AK or RS could have committed the murder, since RS's computer was in use until 9:46pm, a mere 14 minutes before somebody tried to call MK's bank.

At 10:13pm there is a 9-second call from MK's English phone which may have been an attempted internet connection. I have read that this was somebody attempting to access her account via computer, but failing to figure out the password. I cannot confirm this, however.

After that call, most timelines jump to 11pm, when a witness claims he saw AK and RS together in public. Does anyone know how that witness remembered the time and whether we should consider it exact?


http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C441/
 
otto said:
A regular dinner knife is between 9 and 12 inches, depending on the style, just like the knife in question, and similar in length to the knife that was found on the ground outside of Filomina's bedroom. Regardless of how "big" or "heavy" someone may believe the knife to be, it does match one of the injuries to Meredith.
Click to expand...

To say "it does match" is (unintentionally) misleading, otto. The most any expert could testify is that it might have made a particular wound. But even that much is controversial: some experts think it far more likely that wound was made by a smaller knife.

But my point isn't whether that knife could have made one of the wounds, my point is that it is ridiculous to believe AK or RS was carrying that knife around town. Or that that knife was specially chosen to kill MK and was brought to the murder scene for that purpose.

The court concluded the murder was not premeditated, so one has to believe AK or RS chose to carry that huge knife for "fun"? Preposterous.

If you want to argue premeditation, then you have to explain why AK or RS chose that particular knife, and why they chose to carry any knife from RS' apartment rather than simply using one of the knives at AK/MK's house.
 
dgfred said:
Since NONE of that stuff was used against AK or RS at trial to find them guilty it is not important IMO. Rumors were not what got them convicted.
Click to expand...

The list certainly doesn't reflect the evidence presented in court, nor the findings in the motivation report.
 
Nova said:
Does anyone have a timeline for the evening of Nov. 1 that you consider reliable?

I'm very curious about the 10pm call to MK's bank. I have read that call described both as an attempt to access her accounts and a mere misdial.

If it was the former, then I don't see how AK or RS could have committed the murder, since RS's computer was in use until 9:46pm, a mere 14 minutes before somebody tried to call MK's bank.

At 10:13pm there is a 9-second call from MK's English phone which may have been an attempted internet connection. I have read that this was somebody attempting to access her account via computer, but failing to figure out the password. I cannot confirm this, however.

After that call, most timelines jump to 11pm, when a witness claims he saw AK and RS together in public. Does anyone know how that witness remembered the time and whether we should consider it exact?


http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C441/
Click to expand...

The phone records are in the Motivation report ... towards the end.
 
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