What if there was no ransom letter?

I think JR said he was in JAR's room when he saw the van, but am not certain. I know he wasn't in the basement.

I don't find going to the basement as a starting point odd - what I find odd is JR heading to the window right away once he got down there, cementing that story to FW, then making a beeline for the wine cellar.

I agree, John found her because he *had* to find her. I think the Rs thought the police would find her right off, and probably felt panic and trepidation mounting with each passing hour that they didn't.

Is that right about staged scenes and finding the body, UKGuy? Wow.

I also think JR wanted that plane to still be ready to go,which was his original plan,IMO,bc the first thing he did after finding her was try to get that plane ready to leave town,asap.
 
I'll have to cop out on this one. I'd prefer not to go over what-ifs. All I can say is, the staging of the body created a crime. That crime needed a criminal. The note was supposed to provide one.
 
All I can say is, the staging of the body created a crime. That crime needed a criminal. The note was supposed to provide one.
My thoughts exactly. The note served its purpose as a red herring to camouflage the true nature of the crime. It created an 'outside' element and threw sand in the police's eyes. It made officer French leave the wine cellar door closed, for he, due to the ransom note, had the picture in his mind that JonBenet had been abducted from the home.
When later the crime had abruptly turned from a kidnapping to homicide, the police were obviously still so paralyzed that they let the Ramseys go away instead of taking them to the police station at once. Imo this was one of the biggest mistakes in the whole investigation.
 
My thoughts exactly. The note served its purpose as a red herring to camouflage the true nature of the crime. It created an 'outside' element and threw sand in the police's eyes. It made officer French leave the wine cellar door closed, for he, due to the ransom note, had the picture in his mind that JonBenet had been abducted from the home.
When later the crime had abruptly turne from a kidnapping to homicide, the police were obviously still so paralyzed that they let the Ramseys go away insted of taking them to the police station at once. Imo this was one of the biggest mistakes in the whole investigation.


rashomon,

Well put! Is it not curious how many times, at various critical points, the Ramsey's were issued a Get Out Of Jail Card?


.
 
When later the crime had abruptly turne from a kidnapping to homicide, the police were obviously still so paralyzed that they let the Ramseys go away insted of taking them to the police station at once. Imo this was one of the biggest mistakes in the whole investigation.


Hi Rash - I truly enjoy reading your posts and thought you might be interested in this information. Once the Ramseys refused the request to come to the station for an interview, the police couldn't take them in for an interview without a warrant stating they were material witnesses. The police could only ask them to go to the station for questioning (and, imo, most parents would have done just that, upset or not). I don't remember reading about exactly what happened at that point but somewhere I read that John and Patsy refused because they said they were too distraught. At that point, the only option for the police was to work with the DA to compel the Ramseys. That, obviously, didn't happen, but why?

My understanding is the DA dragged their feet and let the Ramseys and their lawyers wait until April. Once the Ramseys refused to voluntarily help detectives by giving prompt and spontaneous interviews, as opposed to orchestrated interviews tailor-made to Ramsey specifications four months after JonBenet's death, the onus was on the DA to compel John and Patsy to comply ASAP.

No parent would go on television a week after their daughter's death without having talked with detectives first. That is called being uncooperative with law enforcement, not cooperative.
 
The Rs needed the ransom letter to explain how their daughter ended up dead in their basement..
Ransom note does no such thing.
The RN didn't do them much good anyway - FBI spotted it as bogus and suspicious right off.
Any FBI agent at the secene that morning failed to control a crime scene they had every reason to take over. I still wonder why such a power hungry organization steped back on that fateful morning.
They knew they'd be finding a body. French didn't open the wine cellar door when searching the basement early that morning because he was searching for an entry/exit for the kidnapper - had he been searching for a missing child, he would have opened that door and found her right away.
HOGWASH! How would French know the layout of the Ramsey basement on his frist trip downstairs? How would he know which door was which? Lets face it theres no good excuse for anyone R or LI not to have looked in that room.
.
I can't believe they didn't search the house top to bottom regardless of whether an RN was found or not. The fact that they claim not to have searched leads me to believe they already knew she was dead in the wine cellar.
The only question is which "they" knew she was down there. LI or R's.
 
I'm not sure how they could have known she was already dead in the basement. Unless things went down VERY differently from what we know. Either someone from LE was there when she was killed (extremely unlikely), the Rs called their high-powered political cronies who called the LE before any officer was sent and they were ordered to pretend it was a kidnapping or they were told immediately upon arriving at the R home that morning, and ordered to pretend it was a kidnapping. We already know that very early that day, the DAs office was TOLD by a higher power to "treat those people like victims and NOT as suspects. One thing the latter scenario explains is why there wasn't more shock and horror when a dead JBR was brought up from the basement. To be honest, since none of us were there, we base our opinion on what happened that day and who did what and who reacted how on the testimony of a few people- LA primarily, and the "breakfast club" of R friends and supporters invited in that morning. None of them are really forthcoming about a whole lot. And LA now has "amnesia".
 
Ransom note does no such thing.

Not for lack of trying.

Any FBI agent at the secene that morning failed to control a crime scene they had every reason to take over. I still wonder why such a power hungry organization steped back on that fateful morning.

They had a lot of reason to play it safe.

Lets face it theres no good excuse for anyone R or LI not to have looked in that room.

I think that was NP's point.
 
Ransom note does no such thing.
Any FBI agent at the secene that morning failed to control a crime scene they had every reason to take over. I still wonder why such a power hungry organization steped back on that fateful morning.
HOGWASH! How would French know the layout of the Ramsey basement on his frist trip downstairs? How would he know which door was which? Lets face it theres no good excuse for anyone R or LI not to have looked in that room.
.The only question is which "they" knew she was down there. LI or R's.

4Sure.

The FBI did arrive and JonBenet had been found. Since it was now a murder and not a kidnapping, their services had to have been ASKED for. They were told by Eller I believe, "no thank you". Also fyi, when Agent Wood ARRIVED ON THE SCENE he checked out the basement and on his way out, he said "look at the parents". John Ramsey swears the FBI was not there that morning. Why would Ron Wood lie? He wouldn't. John just needs a reason not to take a lie detector test administered by the FBI and this is it.
 
][/B]I would start looking in the room that she was kidnapped from...Linda A. told them to look for anything out of place. She was kidnapped from her bedroom, not the basement. So, why would he START LOOKING there first?
AMES,

Every person I asked the exact same question said they would start looking in the bedroom where she was last seen.
 
I would start looking in the room that she was kidnapped from...Linda A. told them to look for anything out of place. She was kidnapped from her bedroom, not the basement. So, why would he START LOOKING there first?
I don't think it would have been possible for him to have looked in JonBenet's bedroom at that point in time, Ames, because the room had been sealed off with crime scene tape at 10:30 a.m.


-Tea
 
I don't think it would have been possible for him to have looked in JonBenet's bedroom at that point in time, Ames, because the room had been sealed off with crime scene tape at 10:30 a.m.


-Tea


But the point is he went straight to the basement. There is no mention at all that he even tried to go the bedroom and was turned away. Knowing idiot Arnt, she would have let him go in anyway.

My five year old neighbor could have done a better job.
 
I don't think it would have been possible for him to have looked in JonBenet's bedroom at that point in time, Ames, because the room had been sealed off with crime scene tape at 10:30 a.m.


-Tea

Then why didn't he scour her room before the police arrived? Shoot...why not have those people that they invited over for a tea pary, help look?? My question was, why did he go directly to the basement, looking for things that were out of place? I am sure that since LA told him to search the house, she probably would have let him step over the crimescene tape...He could have even searched the garage....first, or JAR's room....why the basement?
 
Good points, all. The child's room is where any innocent person would look, not where someone who KNEW where she was would look. That person would look where he knew she was. And he did.
You're right about LA allowing them to go in the room. After all, the home was swarming with people who shouldn't have been there, all of them contaminating the crime scene and destroying evidence. (like wiping down the kitchen counters) This is exactly the effect the Rs wanted.
Has anyone here ever seen the movie (or read the book) "Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil"? It's a good movie- it involves a murder, and a contaminated crime scene along with sloppy LE work. And the defendant gets acquitted, because of the sloppy police work. There is a memorable scene where the defense attorney shows a set of crime scene photos to a witness at the trial. He points out a cat wandering in and out of the blood on the floor, and a reporter walking in and out of the room as well. There were so many people there who didn't belong there that there was no way the crime scene was pristine. And there were also mistakes made in handling the body as well (I recall it was an error in bagging the hands, which is done to prevent loss of evidence on the hands and under the fingernails - and which I believe WAS done with JBR. ) This movie reminds me of the JBR case- a wealthy man goes free after committing a murder. The difference is in that case, the murderer admitted the killing but said it was in self-defense.
 
Good points, all. The child's room is where any innocent person would look, not where someone who KNEW where she was would look. That person would look where he knew she was. And he did.
You're right about LA allowing them to go in the room. After all, the home was swarming with people who shouldn't have been there, all of them containating the crime scene and destroying evidence. (like wiping down the kitchen counters) This is exactly the effect the Rs wanted.
Has anyone here ever seen the movie (or read the book) "Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil"? It's a good movie- it involves a murder, and a contaminated crime scene along with sloppy LE work. And the defendant gets acquitted, because of the sloppy police work. There is a memorable scene where the defense attorney shows a set of crime scene photos to a witness at the trial. He points out a cat wandering in and out of the blood on the floor, and a reporter walking in and out of the room as well. There were so many people there who didn't belong there that there was no way the crime scene was pristine. And there were also mistakes made in handling the body as well (I recall it was an error in bagging the hands, which is done to prevent loss of evidence on the hands and under the fingernails - and which I believe WAS done with JBR. ) This movie reminds me of the JBR case- a wealthy man goes free after committing a murder. The difference is in that case, the murderer admitted the killing but said it was in self-defense.

I KNOW...can you believe it?? And the victims advocate folks, were wiping off the fingerprint dust!!! Now, what if they had removed evidence while they were doing that. John Ramsey could have gotten into JB's room, if he had wanted to look there...(crime scene, or no crime scene)...he knew her body was in that cellar, thats why he went directly to her. Linda Arndt even mentions this...she even thought it was weird.
 
You know, one of the things that I am so curious about is what caused LA to do a complete turn-around in her belief that JR killed his daughter. I know she resented being portrayed as the one who botched the case. (though she had plenty of help in botching the case, it was she who failed to contain the crime scene) and she touched/moved the body herself. She violated nearly every known procedure that came into play that day.
While I totally sympathize with the fact that her superiors left her without back-up, but let's face it- she was the one with a gun. She could have ordered them all out and kept the Rs in her sight.

I know she is writing a book- and I know she isn't going be portray HERSELF as being responsible for botching the case. So I wonder whether she'll use this as payback to her then-superiors.
As a rape victim specialist, she was trained to view the woman as a victim, so I can almost understand why she might see PR as innocent, but in her own words she accused JR. I hope her book will offer some explanation for her reversal.
 
Good points, all. The child's room is where any innocent person would look, not where someone who KNEW where she was would look. That person would look where he knew she was. And he did.
You're right about LA allowing them to go in the room. After all, the home was swarming with people who shouldn't have been there, all of them contaminating the crime scene and destroying evidence. (like wiping down the kitchen counters) This is exactly the effect the Rs wanted.
Has anyone here ever seen the movie (or read the book) "Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil"? It's a good movie- it involves a murder, and a contaminated crime scene along with sloppy LE work. And the defendant gets acquitted, because of the sloppy police work. There is a memorable scene where the defense attorney shows a set of crime scene photos to a witness at the trial. He points out a cat wandering in and out of the blood on the floor, and a reporter walking in and out of the room as well. There were so many people there who didn't belong there that there was no way the crime scene was pristine. And there were also mistakes made in handling the body as well (I recall it was an error in bagging the hands, which is done to prevent loss of evidence on the hands and under the fingernails - and which I believe WAS done with JBR. ) This movie reminds me of the JBR case- a wealthy man goes free after committing a murder. The difference is in that case, the murderer admitted the killing but said it was in self-defense.

Ahhh, Kevin Spacey and John Cusak! Love, love, love that movie! My favorite character is the african american transvestite, Ms. Chabli? (I don't know how to spell it. It's like the wine, I think.) Beautiful scenery. I want to go visit there because of that movie!
 
Damn skippy.

SuperDave, since the police could not compel them to come into the station and talk the day JonBenet's body was found, what is your view on what could have been done to get a statement sometime before the Ramseys went on television a week after JonBenet's death? In my mind, the Ramseys failure to cooperate for four months suggests they were somehow involved and needed that time to form a plan.

I understand the Ramseys say they were taking their counsel's advice to remain quiet. I think that's a ruse but then I haven't seen actual evidence or case papers so my opinion isn't worth much. :twocents:
 
You know, one of the things that I am so curious about is what caused LA to do a complete turn-around in her belief that JR killed his daughter....

DeeDee, I didn't know she had changed her mind about John Ramsey. What have I missed? TIA
 

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