CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #1

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I happened across some wedding photos of the handyman and they surely weren't professional. I would think that if Ms. Gleave was friends with a well known photographer, that would have been a fitting gift for her friend and employee.

I imagine the fact that the dogs were taken in by the vet's son, a shepherd breeder, after initially being taken to the shelter, must have been due to finding a will--probably the same document which named LV as the executor. The vet has stated that they will be evaluated and placed for adoption. That's a bit different than setting up some sort of care plan for them. This is an excellent time to point out how important that is. I cannot tell you how many dogs we've adopted who were left homeless when their owner passed and the children didn't want the dog. It's best to spell out your wishes.

Possibly adoption with a new family was Ms. Gleave's choice as none of her friends seemed to get on with the dogs.
 
sillybilly said:
<snip>

Although Audrey was retired, given her intellect, her love of teaching, I wonder if she did any tutoring. Could explain why she had different computers in her home.

Pondering Audrey's friendship with the well-known wedding photographer JH. Could just be old money, old connections, but i'm wondering if he was the photographer at the handyman's wedding last year and that's where they met. Or, maybe Audrey had professional photos taken of her beloved dogs, but i would think she could have found a photographer closer to home and less expensive.

Or, maybe Audrey just happened to know a photographer. That's a novel concept sillybilly. :crazy:
Click to expand...

According to the condolence message he met her at a web design course at Mohawk College.
 
Snoopster said:
According to the condolence message he met her at a web design course at Mohawk College.
Click to expand...

Thanks Snoopster ... Brain drain here .. i knew that at one time and had forgotten.

Doesn't negate the potential connection to DK that i'm interested in. Will keep plodding.
 
I checked and this statement has only been highlighted on our thread one time. I think it's an important one to revisit:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309473--that-s-so-audrey

Jan. 6, 2011

"....Gleave's beaten, stabbed and sexually assaulted body was found in her Indian Trail home last Thursday morning. Staff Sergeant Steve Hrab who was one of a few Hamilton police homicide detectives at the memorial &#8211; has called the murder the most vicious he's seen in 10 years...."

and

".....While private was the word many people used to describe Gleave, LV said she was many things: animal lover, someone who loved her smokes and candies, coffee groupie, bargain shopper, car-buff, funny and stubborn...."

more at link


So, she was beaten--not just stabbed and sexually violated in some way. I wouldn't think that a killer would beat a person once they were dead. Given the fact that her closest friend describes her as "stubborn", I have a feeling that Ms. Gleave put up quite a fight. It leaves me wondering if her assailant has some injuries from the attack. I know the woman was 73 but she'd been a golfer, tennis player and a coach (years ago). I don't think of her as frail.

This article also makes clear that "the abandoned barn [was] about a five-minute drive down the road, across the border to Brant County".
 
Ditto for this article.
http://www.simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2912906
Hrab said Friday the victim was likely attacked by a stranger.

Neighbours suspect it could be a young man who often helped Gleave with odd jobs around her house.

"The friend found Audrey in the house, obviously dead, obviously the victim of a very horrific, vicious assault," Hrab said.

She had been sexually assaulted, stabbed several times and suffered other injuries that were examined during an autopsy Friday.

"Stranger, sexual component , vicious, vicious assault. It was something very bad," a tired and disturbed Hrab said. "The crime is horrendous."
 
what's the connection between David Kuntz & Audrey?
 
Missizzy said:
So, she was beaten--not just stabbed and sexually violated in some way. I wouldn't think that a killer would beat a person once they were dead. Given the fact that her closest friend describes her as "stubborn", I have a feeling that Ms. Gleave put up quite a fight. It leaves me wondering if her assailant has some injuries from the attack. I know the woman was 73 but she'd been a golfer, tennis player and a coach (years ago). I don't think of her as frail.
Click to expand...
I am not sure about that Missyzzy. We also need to take into consideration the "element of surprise". Was she attacked from the back? Did she see the assailant(s)? Was she facing him/her/them? Was there some object at hand that she could have reached to and try defend herself?

These 2 quotes, gave me a mental image of a frail Audrey :( ... though I could be totally wrong, and she was strong and put up a fight as you suggested.
I remember holding the elevator for Audrey when we first met, to go down to the computer lab at Mohawk. Audrey had such bad legs...but what a quick mind

http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/runtime.php?SiteId=8242&NavigatorId=78497&op=tributeCondolenceView&viewOpt=dpaneOnly&ItemId=619536
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According to neighbours, that someone was a young man who often helped the short-of-breath Gleave with odd jobs around her house.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=2912451
Click to expand...
 
LadyL said:
what's the connection between David Kuntz & Audrey?
Click to expand...
LOL LadyL, I was asking myself the same question. I probably got it wrong, but could it be the name David? :dunno:

On a different note, would that 3-year old child be 25 today?
 
You could be right, Hazel. But why would she play tennis and golf? Why have two very large dogs that take quite a bit of strength to even marginally control? And why work with PK for "hours" on gardening? She might have been out of breath as she was a smoker. I read a comment by LV that they sat on the bench outside the Gleave house in the summer and in snowstorms--not something a frail woman could do. She looked robust in her most recent photos--the ones with her Camaro. In fact, she seemed to be a good bit heavier and "stouter" than in her early days. I guess the beating could have been to subdue her but the stabbing and violation are just overkill. Bless her heart.

I noticed in your link that that is the only time I've ever seen the comment about the neighbors. Are they speaking of the same man?

"....Neighbours suspect it could be a young man who often helped Gleave with odd jobs around her house.

"The friend found Audrey in the house, obviously dead, obviously the victim of a very horrific, vicious assault," Hrab said....."

PK was her handyman. PK was the one who found her. She seemed to consider him an employee and a friend. He's one of only two people mentioned in her obituary. He's surely not a stranger and if he was involved in some way, it surely wouldn't be random. Things are not adding up.
 
I know we've talked about Ms. Gleave's published work on the thread but I was re-looking at it. Is it typical for a future high school physics teacher to write articles on topics such as this:

"Compendium of thermal-neutron-capture &#947;-ray measurements" 1967

"Recoil Broadening of Secondary Transitions in Neutron-Capture Gamma-Ray Cascades" 1969

These would have been written while she was still a student at McMasters and using her maiden name, I would assume. To my untrained eye, it looks like Ms. Gleave was set for some sort of research. I have to wonder what turned her toward teaching general science and physics to high school kids. The research for these papers was done here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalk_River_Laboratories
 
Missizzy said:
RSBM
I noticed in your link that that is the only time I've ever seen the comment about the neighbors. Are they speaking of the same man?

"....Neighbours suspect it could be a young man who often helped Gleave with odd jobs around her house.

"The friend found Audrey in the house, obviously dead, obviously the victim of a very horrific, vicious assault," Hrab said....."

PK was her handyman. PK was the one who found her. She seemed to consider him an employee and a friend. He's one of only two people mentioned in her obituary. He's surely not a stranger and if he was involved in some way, it surely wouldn't be random. Things are not adding up.
Click to expand...
RSBM

Earlier in the thread, we came to the conclusion that that was just poor wording/editing.

Neighbours were suspecting that the person who found Audrey's body was the handyman, not that they were suspecting he was the one who committed the crime. The word "suspect" was a bad choice in the part of the newspaper, IMHO.
LE has said from the beginning that PK (the handyman/friend) has been ruled out as a suspect.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5966462#post5966462
 
Missizzy said:
? She might have been out of breath as she was a smoker. I read a comment by LV that they sat on the bench outside the Gleave house in the summer and in snowstorms--not something a frail woman could do.
Click to expand...


Have you ever been in the outside area of a hospital or nursing home.

You will see many frail men and women sitting and standing outside smoking
and even some of them have their oxygen tanks with them.
 
I was curious yet again when Chalk River came up. I looked about and found the following article publish date 2009, which gives it's history to present. It seems to me that any student of the sciences especially in 1950's would have their eye on a job opportunity there. Perhaps AG had aspirations. I wonder why she didn't go on to get a PhD? The article is a bit longish but written in plain English. I'm also wondering if she wasn't one of the student attending the summer school program there.

http://www.sttranslation.com/deep-river/deep-river-revisited/




Hazel said:
(respectfully snipped by me)

Missizzy, will you believe me if I tell you some of us have heard about that place before? Six threads and almost a year.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95134
Click to expand...
 
LadyL said:
what's the connection between David Kuntz & Audrey?
Click to expand...
Posted in response to
Sillybilly's questioning of whether there might be any sort of connection like attending same school, between JH ( a photographer pal of AG) and the infamous DK.
Nothing implied,just noting.
 
John Burman 13 minutes ago Home invaders batter east-Hamilton man
http://www.thespec.com/news
A 63-year-old east Hamilton man was clubbed, beaten and bound in his home early Thursday before he could free himself and call police.

Police are hunting two men in what appears to have been an armed home invasion that began in a Capilano Drive home about 1:30 a.m.

The victim suffered a minor head injury when he was hit from behind after discovering the two in his home. He did not require hospitalization.
 
Hazel--I'm dumb-founded. Of course I believe you LOL. But I'd never heard of the case. Six threads?!! I just scanned them quickly and I have a sinking feeling that we may be in for a very long haul. Once again I'm struck by how news is typically regionally "contained". I've worked on the Mohler thread for over a year now and our local DA, who is a friend of mine, had never even heard of the Mohler family as the perps are in Missouri. And she prosecutes sex crimes. I've got some reading to do.

Concerning Ms. Gleave's strength, hospitals in our state have outlawed smoking anywhere on the grounds. Even doctors and nurses have to cross major roads to get off of hospital property. But I do remember that sight. However, the only reason those smokers are sitting outside on benches is that they are not allowed inside to smoke. This was Ms. Gleave's own home. I would think that she'd allow her friend in to share a smoke and a chat. But she didn't. I've known people who only smoked outside but that was in California, Texas or Oregon--not places where winters are sub-zero.

I still wonder if someone (have no idea who) might have talked her into picking up some sort of sedative for the dogs and then forced her to take the meds. We have heard nothing about toxicology. But why beat her? Does anyone with knowledge of profiling understand that component?

For some reason I just don't think she gave up easily. She handled unruly teens for decades without raising her voice. I think she had a very strong will. I don't think she willingly followed directions which she didn't agree with. JMO
 
An interesting point to consider. I rarely go into any area of WS other than the "Crimes in the News" and "Spotlight on Children" as my focus is pedophiles and crimes with a satanic or ritualistic component. I had never seen the thread you mentioned. I just checked and that's because it's in the "Missing" section. I wonder how many other WSers miss the boat on helping because we just don't see cases?

I often come upon pertinent cases to threads I'm working on by googling and am shocked that my path leads back to a thread on WS.
 
LadyL said:
what's the connection between David Kuntz & Audrey?
Click to expand...

I am a former Ontario, and lived in Kitchener-Waterloo in the early 1960s. As a result, I am very familiar with the many big family names from back in that era. Someone else had already brought the DK story to my attention, and the Kuntz family name rang a bell with me. Then when I read the condolences and saw the H family name, that also rang a bell. I just followed it as part of regular sleuthing to see if it led anywhere, and it led me to both family names being connected through St. Jeromes school. Then it led me to the more immediate connection of DK's uncle Paul having attended St. Jeromes, and JH also attended St. Jeromes, and is the person who organized the St. Jeromes reunion page.

Therefore, AG > JH > DK's family

As stated previously, it merely has potential that bears consideration. Audrey didn't seem to have an extensive circle of friends, therefore it is interesting to be able to make that connection to DK's family. I could take a thousand other names and not make that same connection.

HTH
 
Does anyone else think it interesting that Ms. Gleave's former husband offered up her maiden name and the fact that she had no family? I can't imagine my husband saying the same about me if I were killed in such a hideous manner. They were married for seven years and all he really said is that she was incredibly intelligent. Given that she didn't think so highly of him and they had no children (are we certain?), one has to wonder why she didn't reclaim her maiden name or claim a new one. I don't know the culture in Canada at the time--the mid 70s. Would an Eastern European name have been a hindrance? Hard to imagine but I'm just wondering.
 
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