2010.11.03 Bone Recovered

DLT88 said:

I can believe that. I used to live in New York State and saw that a dead baby bird on the ground that had been washed from its nest during the rainstorm the night before. When I got home from work, it was just a skeleton! Ants had cleaned out the whole thing. So with the weather you describe in NC, I can see that happening to a human much faster than we'd think. Dang it, because I so want to know a cause of death.

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There is a pig decomposition video (you can google it, warning it's graphic) on the web that was done to show just how fast decomposition can take place.

There are so many factors involved. Temperature, on top of the ground, under the ground, humidity, animal activity in the area, etc...

sarx said:

This is JUST a guide for reference, but does help in understanding decomp and what happens to a body after death.
WARNING strong graphic content
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Stages-of-Decomposition

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That's the second time today we have shared a brain. Scary!:crazy:

belimom said:

I just recalled an earlier thread where we were discussing whether or not Zahra was eligible for SSI (disability income). I believe Ada is an expert on this so she (or others) might can add some more info.

It appears that she was not because (1) her hearing aids remedied her hearing loss, and (2) she had one leg amputated around the knee. In order to be eligible as an amputee, it seems that she would have to have had one leg amputated at the hip or two limbs amputated.


I really hope these pitiful adults who were supposed to be loving her and taking care of her did not succumb to greed and try to find a way to get money through Zahra, only to have their plan fail miserably when she didn't live through the torturous event. :furious:

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Yes - I would love for you disability experts to weigh in further! I'd wondered earlier if EB - as the only "assistance collector" in the household - was trying to present herself as a full time caregiver to Zahra. Perhaps since Zahra was not eligible herself, EB was trying to say that she couldn't work because she was caring for a sick child. [Might explain why she kept her out of school, or even kept her unhealthy?]. Not sure how it works in NC, but I know there is caregiver assistance where I lived. I'm wondering if this was another tactic by EB, perhaps if her "mysterious illness" excuses were no longer working, to scam the system...

Searchers find bone that may be related to Zahra case
Search teams have found a bone that may be related to the investigation into the disappearance of 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
Police said they found the bone on Wednesday in Caldwell County, but would not say exactly where it was found. More...
• VIDEO: Searchers Find Bone That May Be Related To Zahra Case
• CHOPPER VIDEO: Police Drain Pond In Search For Zahra
• SLIDESHOW: Police Draining Caldwell Co. Pond
• MAP: Christie Road
• SLIDESHOW: Searchers Return To Site Where Prosthetic Was Found

Zahra search back at Caldwell Co. site
Search crews are back out at a site along Christie Road in Caldwell County Thursday searching for clues into the disappearance of Zahra Baker.
They drained a small pond in that area Wednesday and found a bone that they believe may be related to the case. The bone was sent to the N.C. Medical Examiner’s Office in Chapel Hill for further examination.
More... Video included...

Officers focus on Caldwell County in Zahra Baker search
A search in Caldwell County is being called one of the largest yet in the efforts to find out what happened to 10-year old Zahra Baker.
More... Video included...

Fund for Zahra search shuts down after scrutiny of group
A group raising money in Zahra Baker's name canceled that effort Wednesday, citing negative publicity about the fund. At the same time, the North Carolina Attorney General's office announced concern about the fundraising .
A week after the 10-year-old was reported missing, the Spiritual Counseling Network set up its fund and raised money at WalMart and online.
More...

Searchers return to area where bone was found
Dozens of people returned Thursday to search a rural area of Caldwell County for evidence in the disappearance of 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
• VIDEO: Searchers Return To Area Where Bone Was Found

Christie Road, east of Hudson, was shut down for the second day in a row as investigators combed through the woods. Approximately 40 people began a methodical search of the area at about 9 a.m., despite the cold, rainy weather that persisted through the day.
More...

Maybe a new thread in relation to the SSI stuff? Not sure how this is connected to the bone recovery.

sarx said:

This is JUST a guide for reference, but does help in understanding decomp and what happens to a body after death.
WARNING strong graphic content
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Stages-of-Decomposition

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Wow very interesting. Wish it would have told more about the temp and conditions they were decaying in. Thanks for this Sarx

Are there Fire ants in N.C.? They can strip a cat to the clean bone in 2 hours.. Had some get into some eggs that were hatching.. Nasty creatures..

Since I live in neighboring Tennessee, I know that it is just now getting cold enough to stall decomposition. Tonight is our first night down in the 30s.

The past few weeks have fluctuated up and down, from 40s at night to 80s during the day, and the past few days there has been alot of rain. There are still insects around too.

So there would definitely be decomposition and animal activity.

sarx said:

Maybe a new thread in relation to the SSI stuff? Not sure how this is connected to the bone recovery.

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There's the possibility that the bone could be the results of an amputation gone bad... The amputation could be the results of trying to get SSI (or just plain torture/punishment). :furious:

belimom said:

There's the possibility that the bone could be the results of an amputation gone bad... The amputation could be the results of trying to get SSI (or just plain torture/punishment). :furious:

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Got it, hadn't made that connection.

I suspect they have found a whole LOT of bones while out searching in various locations. You generally do.
True, there are lots of things they are not releasing to the public. Heck, it isn't all that uncommon to find OTHER human bones while out searching for someone. It does happen. This is why veterans in SAR don't get excited because there are just too many variables. You keep searching until a positive ID is made or you risk losing valuable time.
I think this just happened to be the bone the media caught wind of, either because they were not pushed back far enough or because of a leak....
(And this BTW, is exactly why you keep the media back, because everything you find they make it a positive connection)

Not saying it's not a human bone, not saying it doesn't belong to Zahra, just saying I am moving forward with trying to find ideas of where they could have put her until I hear that they have found her.

sarx said:

I suspect they have found a whole LOT of bones while out searching in various locations. You generally do.
True, there are lots of things they are not releasing to the public. Heck, it isn't all that uncommon to find OTHER human bones while out searching for someone. It does happen. This is why veterans in SAR don't get excited because there are just too many variables. You keep searching until a positive ID is made or you risk losing valuable time.
I think this just happened to be the bone the media caught wind of, either because they were not pushed back far enough or because of a leak....
(And this BTW, is exactly why you keep the media back, because everything you find they make it a positive connection)

Not saying it's not a human bone, not saying it doesn't belong to Zahra, just saying I am moving forward with trying to find ideas of where they could have put her until I hear that they have found her.

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I'm wondering if they found the bone last week and were waiting for forensics to be sure it was hers before they came back?

tiredblondy said:

I'm wondering if they found the bone last week and were waiting for forensics to be sure it was hers before they came back?

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Being that the area has been unsecured for a good portion of that time, I'd like to think not.

Human bones are pretty easy to distinguish from animal bones, unless it's a small fragment. Child bones are pretty easy to distinguish from adult bones, due to differences in density of the bone.

The skull has 22 bones in it. So they could find a piece of the skull, 'a' bone, and call it a bone. But I think if they found the skull, or enough of it to identify it as such, they would call it a skull or a partial skull.

Turtle shells, however, can be difficult to distinguish from skull fragments, on first inspection.

(I was an anthropologist earlier in life)

Is there anyone other than me who thinks the bone recovered is a smaller one, perhaps from a finger or finger joint?

I have absolutely no basis for why I feel this way, btw.

Also, bone identification (as it pertains to ZB) should be very easy. Her cancer leaves a tale tale sign 9 miles wide (based on neoplastic changes, areas of uptake and pathologic features, just to name a few).

Biophosphonates are are often used in children with bone cancer and leave their footprints everywhere.. I feel sure ZB took biophosphonates for some length of time following her cancer dx. It's pretty much the standard of care.

Bisphosphonates, a class of drugs that inhibit osteoclast activity, are useful in preventing and/or inhibiting the growth and symptoms of lytic bone metastases, as well as preventing and treating generalized osteoporosis sometimes caused by chemotherapy agents in cancer patients. Following administration, bisphosphonates bind avidly to exposed bone mineral around resorbing osteoclasts leading to very high local concentrations of bisphosphonate in the resorption lacunae (up to 1,000 µM). On release from the bone surface, bisphosphonates are internalized by the osteoclast, where they cause disruption of the biochemical processes involved in bone resorption [9]. Bisphosphonates also cause osteoclast apoptosis, with the appearance of distinctive changes in cell and nuclear morphology.

http://www.leiomyosarcoma.info/metsbone1.htm#040bisphosphonates

tiredblondy said:

I'm wondering if they found the bone last week and were waiting for forensics to be sure it was hers before they came back?

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I don't believe LE would leave the area unsecured. Field analysis could determine if the bone was human or animal; then it would be sent to the crime lab for further testing. MOO

If Zahra is out there then I pray that she is recovered. The only saving grace is that if the bone found is Zahra or the prosthetic leg has some decomp, or the mattress then they are going down.

LE are having a hard time but it looks as if they will have plenty of circumstantial evidence to place the Perps where they belong ... for a long time.

I'm one of those "guests" on the forums that just reads. But I'm always here. Zahra's case has just done me in. Bless her sweet heart.

I wanted to comment and say that we found many bones searching for Lindsey. Police would come and know almost instantly whether it was human or animal. We had one time where I guess it wasn't sure...the crime scene lab showed up and processed the scene. They ended up being animal bones. So I guess sometimes LE just isn't sure and they ask for the ME?

But after reading here how that area has been blocked off.....it leaves no doubt in my mind. The bone found must be human. I'm sick at heart. Poor Zahra. How that child must have suffered. Zahra's case is so bad because she suffered so much in life, and then these inhumane people took her life. I hate them

It's an outrage. And goes against every single thing I hold dear in my life. God Bless you Zahra. I just can't wrap my brain around this one. It's truly sickening.

~PrinceSSa~ said:

What did they do to that poor sweet child?????!!!!!
And more importantly....HOW LONG has Zahra REALLY been missing if they are finding a bone...

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Oh but....She was never missing. Her murderers know exactly where she is. They knew when they called 911 right where she is.

I wonder if they've found anything else in that area...how bad is this going to get?