GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

ClaireNC said:

Sorry, I just need to respond...


Is there a MSM source that says she visited her father once a year? I got the impression that he travels between PR, Florida and Georgia regularly. Do we know where Jorelys was born? Was she born in PR, or in mainland US?

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respectfully snipped by me for space

from the Atlanta Journal Constitution
http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publishe...=100020422&docId=l:1559916999&isRss=true&Em=4

"Joselinne Rivera moved to Georgia from Puerto Rico about three years ago, said her brother, Blas Rivera Jr.

"She came here to progress her life, to make a better life," he said. "She wanted to make it all good for her girls."
*end quote from article

PR was where she grew up (well, birth to age 4) and where her dad & extended family lived, so I agree it was a trip 'home' not a trip to a fun tropical island as it would be for a non-native.

ClaireNC said:

Sorry, I just need to respond...


Is there a MSM source that says she visited her father once a year? I got the impression that he travels between PR, Florida and Georgia regularly. Do we know where Jorelys was born? Was she born in PR, or in mainland US?


I have never met a 7 year old that worries about travel plans, they just go with the flow.


I have some close ties to PR that are not worth explaining here. Generally it is common for families travel back and forth often. To Jorelys, it was probably more like a trip to Grandma's then a trip to a tropical island. It would not be a site seeing tour of the ocean and mountains. There would not be souvenirs, just very special memories of time spent with loved ones. I doubt that her father's family lavished her with "lovely gifts". The culture is not as materialistic in terms of what they give their children. However, much more likely she was lavished with love!

Really? That just sounds like an episode of CSI. Are you really that convinced that Jorelys mother was part of the crime or are you just trying to throw in reasonable doubt?

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Here's a copy of my previous post which provides answers to the questions you asked me here:

<snipped>

Jorelys left the industrial town of Penuelas where she was born with her mother when she was three.

She had come back several times and was to spend Christmas in Penuelas with her father and extended family.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Rivera-buried-Puerto-Rico.html#ixzz1hN9uiGi2


Several times means 2 or 3 and since Jorelys left when she was 3, this could have been her 3 or 4 visit home. If this was to be her fourth trip home, that means she visited once a year.

Who decided the mother should be Jorelys's permanent guardian? After Joseline and Jjorelys's father separated, did they go to Court to have a Judge decide who is the better parent or did Joseline just take off with her daughter and not allow the father this opportunity?

What is going on here???? I thought it was against TOS to sleuth VICTIMS!

stillwatersc said:

What is going on here???? I thought it was against TOS to sleuth VICTIMS!

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Thanks stillwatersc. My post was questioning why somebody would be posting such theories. Notice my question at the end. "Are you really that convinced that JR's mother was part of the crime or are you just trying to throw in reasonable doubt?" was never answered.

To stay within TOS, I will not respond to any more of those posts. I just find them really frustrating. Also, the "Daily Mail" is not a what I consider a reliable MSM.

I don't see it as much reasonable doubt as it's more like a tale, twisting facts to fit, or putting a round plug in a square hole, imaginary. I just bypass it. If potential jurors believe that stuff, then we need a new system pronto. jmo

(I know 12 already did believe a tale not long ago, gar!) The law is getting results back from labs, and they are building a case. They had good reason to arrest RB.

Q: Who exactly notified Jorelys’s mother and told her Jorelys was 'gone'?

In missing persons cases where no amber alert is issued LE need to bring in two types of search dogs from the getgo: a cadaver dog and a K-9 dog.

LE said he saw “some sort of sticks” lying on top of the mattress and since no other weapon has been named, I think the killer used the sticks to beat and stab the child with.

<snipped>

Imagine that you were abused when you were a young child, maybe with a stick. It was horribly painful, and you were terrified, but somehow sexual titillation got linked to the use of an object. You split those experiences off from conscious memory and buried all the anger and shame deep inside. You grew up, married, had children. Then one day your child or your brother's child or the neighbor's child, as in Huckaby's case, reaches the age you were when the abuse happened, and you find yourself having thoughts about the child that you know are wrong, but you can't help the forbidden feelings. Should you act on that sexual inclination, you open a Pandora's box of unconscious overwhelming feelings that can get horribly out of control. TV station KCRA 3 reported on its web site that investigators close to the case said Huckaby admitted that Sandra Cantu's death was an accident. That is very possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-king/melissa-huckaby-and-the-u_b_188921.html

I think the killer fled the apartment in order to go back to where they were supposed to be and on their way back “home”, they dumped Jorelys’s unconscious body in the dumpster. Whoever was using the apartment is now running from LE while Ryan Brunn remains incarcerated.

The officer who inspected the apartment said he suspects the former tenant was in there because they used a key to unlock the door and maintenance hadn’t gone in to check the apartment after it was vacated or else the heat wouldn’t have been on.

In the Internal Report, LE said a male lives across from the vacant apartment and when he answered his door, the tenant said he already knew Jorelys was missing. What does he know? LE need to go and conduct a formal interview with the “next door neighbor” and identify the former tenant.

LE said the information he and his partner provided headquarters with wasn’t being processed and very unorganized.

The killer flew into a jealous rage and beat the child. Normally after a person is severely beaten, they loose consciousness so I think Jorelys was unconsciousness when she was placed in the dumpster and she later died from her injuries and gross negligence. This strongly suggests the person knew the child, hated the child and purposely threatened and endangered the child's safety. They chose not to seek help for the child. JMO.

JOY TO THE WORLD
PEACE ON EARTH
GOODWILL TOWARDS MEN
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE

Who exactly notified Jorelys&#8217;s mother and told her Jorelys was 'gone'?

In missing persons cases where no amber alert is issued LE need to bring in two types of search dogs from the getgo: a cadaver dog and a K-9 dog.

LE said he saw &#8220;some sort of sticks&#8221; lying on top of the mattress and since no other weapon has been named, I think the killer used the sticks to beat and stab the child with.

<snipped>


I think the killer fled the apartment in order to go back to where they were supposed to be and on their way back &#8220;home&#8221;, they dumped Jorelys&#8217;s unconscious body in the dumpster.

Excellent, the dumpster is on the way back to RB's Apt.

Whoever was using the apartment is now running from LE while Ryan Brunn remains incarcerated.

I don't think the person that used the apartment is running from LE as I think that person is incarcerated.

The officer who inspected the apartment said he suspects the former tenant was in there because they used a key to unlock the door.

I think RB may have found one of the tennants spare keys or may have lifted a key from the office or the past tennant simply didn't lock his/her door at the time of move-out/skip-out

and maintenance hadn&#8217;t gone in to check the apartment after it was vacated or else the heat wouldn&#8217;t have been on.

I assume the heat was turned on after RB gained access to the apartment. I doubt he would turn it off because he wasn't paying the bill and he wanted to make it look like maintenance hadn&#8217;t gone in to check the apartment after it was vacated

In the Internal Report, LE said a male lives across from the vacant apartment and when he answered his door, the tenant said he already knew Jorelys was missing. What does he know? LE need to go and conduct a formal interview with the &#8220;next door neighbor&#8221; and identify the former tenant.

I think LE has formally interviewed the neighbor across the hall and he is not a suspect, he may even be a witness against RB.

LE said the information he and his partner provided headquarters with wasn&#8217;t being processed and very unorganized.

too vague for me to comment on.

The killer flew into a jealous rage and beat the child. Normally after a person is severely beaten, they loose consciousness so I think Jorelys was unconsciousness when she was placed in the dumpster and she later died from her injuries and gross negligence.

I think I will wait for the Coroner's report.


This strongly suggests the person knew the child, hated the child and purposely threatened and endangered the child's safety. They chose not to seek help for the child. JMO.

Wow this also points to RB.

Thanks for your points. I really didn't know what they had on RB but you were very smart in clearing that up for me.

Blue Sky,

Why would a past tenant come back to their own vacant apt. and leave a dead child in there?

why can't we get pass page 13?

stillwatersc said:

Full report. Has this been posted yet?

http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/archive/01222/Cherokee_internal__1222434a.pdf

Maintenance man was not RB. - Hispanic male named Mark.

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Seeing this really, really has me weaving in and out of "Did RB do it?"

That tree-line around the complex still weirds me out, and I know that it's for protection - but I wonder how many vagrants are in this area? And, on the outskirts of this hwy (in front of the complex), what stores are within walking distance?

I am looking at every angle here, so please don't attack me. I know as much as everyone else here, but I am still perked on why they haven't officially charged RB and why they are waiting months to do so.

I would really like to see a roommate interview/public (keyword public) appearance.

Usually, when a tenant moves and things are left over, they are removed the day of the vacancy. I find it really odd that these items were in the apartment, in the living room, on day 5 of the starting month.
Leads me to believe, and to *speculate, this apartment was vacant much longer than on the 1st of the month. And if that's true, plenty of time for someone to realize "hey, it's safe to crash here."

I am still waiting on something that sticks, obviously. I hope that day comes soon cause that is the truest and best form of justice for Jorelys.

sherbetjello said:

Seeing this really, really has me weaving in and out of "Did RB do it?"

That tree-line around the complex still weirds me out, and I know that it's for protection - but I wonder how many vagrants are in this area? And, on the outskirts of this hwy (in front of the complex), what stores are within walking distance?

I am looking at every angle here, so please don't attack me. I know as much as everyone else here, but I am still perked on why they haven't officially charged RB and why they are waiting months to do so.

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He's been charged with murder.

I would really like to see a roommate interview/public (keyword public) appearance.

Click to expand...

I'm sure LE doesn't care about our curiosity, they care about keeping the evidence close to the vest and not trying this case in the public eye.

Usually, when a tenant moves and things are left over, they are removed the day of the vacancy.

Click to expand...

Not at all true. Depending on how many people are moving in and how many other units were vacated, it could take a couple of weeks before an apartment is trashed out. If Ryan was a lazy person, even longer. I do find a couch and a mattress still in the apartment to be odd - people leave behind mattresses, but seldom their couch.

I find it really odd that these items were in the apartment, in the living room, on day 5 of the starting month.
Leads me to believe, and to *speculate, this apartment was vacant much longer than on the 1st of the month. And if that's true, plenty of time for someone to realize "hey, it's safe to crash here."

Click to expand...

It's no longer a rule that residents move in and out only on the first of the month. In many cases, now, the lease begins and ends on the day the resident wants to move in. So the previous resident's lease could have ended at any time during the month. I remember the nightmare days of having 15-20 residents moving out on the first and 15-20 moving in a week later, almost impossible to do efficiently, especially on a section 8 community. Most of the residents just don't care how they leave an apartment, they weren't charged for it. It could be different now, I haven't had experience with section 8 in many, many years.

I am still waiting on something that sticks, obviously. I hope that day comes soon cause that is the truest and best form of justice for Jorelys

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.

If Ryan were being railroaded, we'd have heard something from his lawyer by now. My feeling is they have rock solid evidence and they are making the case bullet proof. I just hope there are no plea deals - he needs to be put away forever if he committed this horrible act.

vlpate said:

He's been charged with murder.


I'm sure LE doesn't care about our curiosity, they care about keeping the evidence close to the vest and not trying this case in the public eye.


Not at all true. Depending on how many people are moving in and how many other units were vacated, it could take a couple of weeks before an apartment is trashed out. If Ryan was a lazy person, even longer. I do find a couch and a mattress still in the apartment to be odd - people leave behind mattresses, but seldom their couch.



It's no longer a rule that residents move in and out only on the first of the month. In many cases, now, the lease begins and ends on the day the resident wants to move in. So the previous resident's lease could have ended at any time during the month. I remember the nightmare days of having 15-20 residents moving out on the first and 15-20 moving in a week later, almost impossible to do efficiently, especially on a section 8 community. Most of the residents just don't care how they leave an apartment, they weren't charged for it. It could be different now, I haven't had experience with section 8 in many, many years.

.

If Ryan were being railroaded, we'd have heard something from his lawyer by now. My feeling is they have rock solid evidence and they are making the case bullet proof. I just hope there are no plea deals - he needs to be put away forever if he committed this horrible act.

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BBM
The only plea IMO would be a guilty to all charges to remove the death penalty, still with life w no possibility of parole. And I only see this deal if the evidence is overwhelmingly circumstantial, if there is DNA and witnesses, I bet there is no deal offer. GA is not afraid to go hard for the DP.

sherbetjello said:

Seeing this really, really has me weaving in and out of "Did RB do it?"

That tree-line around the complex still weirds me out, and I know that it's for protection - but I wonder how many vagrants are in this area? And, on the outskirts of this hwy (in front of the complex), what stores are within walking distance?

I am looking at every angle here, so please don't attack me. I know as much as everyone else here, but I am still perked on why they haven't officially charged RB and why they are waiting months to do so.

I would really like to see a roommate interview/public (keyword public) appearance.

Usually, when a tenant moves and things are left over, they are removed the day of the vacancy. I find it really odd that these items were in the apartment, in the living room, on day 5 of the starting month.
Leads me to believe, and to *speculate, this apartment was vacant much longer than on the 1st of the month. And if that's true, plenty of time for someone to realize "hey, it's safe to crash here."

I am still waiting on something that sticks, obviously. I hope that day comes soon cause that is the truest and best form of justice for Jorelys.

Click to expand...

BBM
There are certainly other areas of Canton with higher concentrations of section 8 and charity food banks, etc. This is mostly a commercial area, mostly newer shops. Nearest shopping center has Publix, Ross, Movie Theater, Longhorn, Red Lobster, and specialty clothing stores. The "highway", Riverstone Pkwy/Marietta HWY is a 4 lane (2 each way) closest to exit 20 off 575. We don't get many "vagrants" or "homeless" here, simply because there are so many more resources for such people in larger cities such as Marietta and Atlanta. In 6 years of living here, I have seen panhandlers maybe 3 times, and usually these appear to be drive-ins that solicit at freeway exits. I work with a local charity and as far as food banks, 95% of the people coming in are Guatemalan families with multiple children, I see very few men alone or even childless women. I am trying to recall even one man alone coming in and I can't.

marazul said:

BBM
There are certainly other areas of Canton with higher concentrations of section 8 and charity food banks, etc. This is mostly a commercial area, mostly newer shops. Nearest shopping center has Publix, Ross, Movie Theater, Longhorn, Red Lobster, and specialty clothing stores. The "highway", Riverstone Pkwy/Marietta HWY is a 4 lane (2 each way) closest to exit 20 off 575. We don't get many "vagrants" or "homeless" here, simply because there are so many more resources for such people in larger cities such as Marietta and Atlanta. In 6 years of living here, I have seen panhandlers maybe 3 times, and usually these appear to be drive-ins that solicit at freeway exits. I work with a local charity and as far as food banks, 95% of the people coming in are Guatemalan families with multiple children, I see very few men alone or even childless women. I am trying to recall even one man alone coming in and I can't.

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BBM

I thought a double thank you was necessary. I also live in Georgia and have volunteered with the Soup Kitchen, and my children volunteered when they were in high school (many years ago). I have never consider Canton to be a "South Atlanta" where so much of the crime happens.

SyraKelly said:

why can't we get pass page 13?

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There were some comments deleted that messed up the page count. I think there will always be an extra page until we switch threads.

Just had a chance to finally read the report. I wonder why it was reported this whole time that the apartment was an unlocked apartment when it says explicitly in this report that the officer remembers the maintenance guy had to unlock the door??

I'm still trying to imagine how blood would look like feces? They must have assumed it was very loose stool?? Ick! If there was that much blood, how was it all over the bathroom, but not found in the rest of the apartment?

I wonder if he showered in that bathroom?

In regards to the neighbor that already knew she was missing, I'm sure it's as simple as someone from the family or friends had already came looking for her before the police knocked on his door the next day. IMO, the police should have been knocking on every door of that apartment complex Friday night!

vlpate said:

He's been charged with murder.


I'm sure LE doesn't care about our curiosity, they care about keeping the evidence close to the vest and not trying this case in the public eye.


Not at all true. Depending on how many people are moving in and how many other units were vacated, it could take a couple of weeks before an apartment is trashed out. If Ryan was a lazy person, even longer. I do find a couch and a mattress still in the apartment to be odd - people leave behind mattresses, but seldom their couch.



It's no longer a rule that residents move in and out only on the first of the month. In many cases, now, the lease begins and ends on the day the resident wants to move in. So the previous resident's lease could have ended at any time during the month. I remember the nightmare days of having 15-20 residents moving out on the first and 15-20 moving in a week later, almost impossible to do efficiently, especially on a section 8 community. Most of the residents just don't care how they leave an apartment, they weren't charged for it. It could be different now, I haven't had experience with section 8 in many, many years.

.

If Ryan were being railroaded, we'd have heard something from his lawyer by now. My feeling is they have rock solid evidence and they are making the case bullet proof. I just hope there are no plea deals - he needs to be put away forever if he committed this horrible act.

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That's why we are grateful to have insight from somebody that REALLY knows (a long time apartment manager) a professional. If "we" think certain things are out of the ordinary then we can be set straight.

Thank you once again vlpate

cat thief said:

That's why we are grateful to have insight from somebody that REALLY knows (a long time apartment manager) a professional. If "we" think certain things are out of the ordinary then we can be set straight.

Thank you once again vlpate

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BEM: Too long, lol. I was on several properties, as manager, from 86-92 and promoted to upper management, eventually overseeing 4,200 units. Two years ago I went back onsite and I love it. I have a life now and much less stress :truce: I've always said a reality show about property management would be a hit.

Having said that, I can attest to the fact that Property management companies are corporate entities and they only see the bottom line, not people . They may be sending out condolences to the family, but they don't really know who they are and they don't really care. Residents will want to move out, but they won't be allowed to break their leases because the community did nothing wrong, unless the manager had some prior knowledge that this kid had issues. In that case, she could be sued personally and as a representative of the management company. The management company will settle in a minute, they always do. In 25+ years I've gone to court on exactly one case - a precedent setting case and we paid dearly - way less expensive to settle and there's no media/Internet attention.

My point to the last paragraph... we are not likely to hear a word out of the manager, or the staff. Talking about something this serious to the media would ruin them professionally, and if they signed a confidentiality agreement, which is common, they could face legal ramifications as well. This company is worried right now, a bad reputation is almost impossible to overcome in this industry, especially in the age of google. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on any of the employees to speak out. The son is a different story though...

Sorry the post is so long...just trying to give a little insight. Goodnight :seeya:

Bluesky#1 said:

That's true, Melissa Huckaby was charged with the kidnapping, rape, and murder of Sandra Cantu. I didn't follow the case to trial so IDK how the prosecutors proved Sandra was raped by Melissa.

IIRC, Melissa kidnapped Sandra on a Friday afternoon. After Sandra returned home from school she left to go to a friends house and she disappeared while walking down the street. Sandra lived in a trailor complex.

What evidence do LE need to prove Jorelys was raped?

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This happened in June of this year.
Molly Jane Roe raped, killed boyfriend's 17-month-old baby girl, Maleeya Marie Murley
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-16/news/29687607_1_baby-girl-child-abuse-vaginal-area

"In addition to murder, Roe also faces a charge of aggravated rape of a child.

An examination of Murley after she was hospitalized revealed bruising to her vaginal area, right hip and left side of her stomach, as well as a bite mark on her back, court documents revealed, according to The Jackson Sun."

katydid23 said:

Blue Sky,

Why would a past tenant come back to their own vacant apt. and leave a dead child in there?

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The neighbor who lives across from the apartment where the child was tortured needs to be ruled out. I'm curious to know if he is a RSO and was ruled out. He could have grabbed Jorelys and taken her in the apartment across the hall but LE said the the previous tenant had a key so they likely kept the door locked until the day they carried out their plan to murder the child. If he wanted to know when Jorelys got off the school bus, all he had to do was walk or look outside his window. I personally don&#8217;t think he committed this crime but LE needs to know if he heard or saw anyone living in the apartment who was there on Friday. I wonder if LE are interested in pursuing the leads the detectives who inspected the apartment generated.

LE said it appeared to him that the former was still living there so it looks like they hadn&#8217;t finished moving out yet and that&#8217;s why they had a key to the apartment and were allowed to be there. In November Joseline moved out of an apartment into another at RR complex so I wonder why she wanted to move - what was her purpose for doing that? Feces was spotted in the apartment which suggests the tenant had young children in diapers who were in the process of being toilet trained. LE also detected blood droplets from a nosebleed and because the heat was on in the apartment, a dry climate can cause a child's nose to bleed. Doctors recommend applying vaseline into the nasal passages to eliminate the problem. Normally a caretaker inspects a suite with the tenant the day the lease expires and the tenants turn in the keys, etc. Joseline had plans but I don't know what they were.

The killer disposed of the body immediately after they had finished beating up an innocent child so they didn&#8217;t leave a dead body in the apartment. It is too risky and besides, the killer planned everything out in advance and it was executed effeciently and with precision. The killer knew the child had to be reported missing and LE had to be notified so they removed the body after the child was beaten nearly to death and had no intention of going back there because they had to leave and be where they were supposed to be to cover up the crime and avoid further questioning.

LE didn&#8217;t say whether they spotted trash bags, boxes, ties that bind, and duct tape in the apartment. I believe the murder was planned because the killer put duct tape presumably over the victim&#8217;s mouth and bound their arms and ankles imo to ensure the victim would die. I think after she was beaten, the killer put the duct tape on and bound her limbs so there would be no doubt in the killer&#8217;s mind that she was dead - they intended to kill her so this murder was premeditated - this was intentional.

If the victim wasn&#8217;t dead but unconscious after the beating, duct tape over the mouth prevented them from moaning or using their hands and feet should they regain consciousness. The killer took this into consideration. When the elements of premeditation and planning are present, the charges are first degree murder punishable by lethal injection. Therefore the killer can't claim they were insane when they committed the crime so they wouldn't be able to plea "not guilty due to reasons of insanity".

Jorelys was murdered in early December and her father was expecting her to come and spend the Christmas Holidays with him. What was the mother's plan? Joreslys looks afraid in some of her most recent pictures imo. The mother said the last time she saw her daughter was on Thursday so she did wasn't protecting her child from harm the day the crime against her occurred. The mother said she had no contact with her daughter around the time she was murdered and I do not believe her.

<snipped>

Jorelys left the industrial town of Penuelas where she was born with her mother when she was three.

She had come back several times and was to spend Christmas in Penuelas with her father and extended family.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Rivera-buried-Puerto-Rico.html#ixzz1hN9uiGi2


Q: Does anyone know of a previous case where a mother was convicted for sexually assaulting, beating and murdering their own child? Melissa Huckaby, the Sunday School teacher, had one daughter but the girl she kidnapped, sexually assaulted and murdered, Sandra Cantu, was not her child - IOW Melissa didn't inflict or dump her emotional problems onto her child - IOW, she protected her child from experiencing her pain.