NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

clueless said:

I've been following this case for a while now....there are so many posts to read it can be all consuming. What a sad, sad case. Completely a mystery.

Personally, I lean towards the theory that she succumbed to the elements trying to avoid being caught by police. Being the great runner she is, I believe she got further than anyone expected at the time and her remains in the woods not too far from the road. I think she panicked when she had the 2nd accident and all she could think was that she couldn't get caught drinking and driving with everything else that had been going on. I think she likely had a head injury (based on the cracked windshield) and combined with the alcohol, she just wasn't thinking clearly. By the time the panic subsided, she was in an impossible situation due to the weather, or possibly the head injury was bad enough she died from it.

A question I have is: Is it a FACT that she was caught in credit card fraud? Is it verified anywhere or do we have to simply take Mr. Renner's word for it?

I have no opinion one way or another that Mr. Renner is good or bad in this case. I've read his blog about MM, but haven't really checked him out otherwise. Much of his blog seems gossipy, but I'm glad someone is investigating. However, anyone can have a blog and say anything they want, so I'd like to know if this particular fact has been proven with any evidence.

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IMHO, I don't think Maura hit her head at all. The cracked winshield was very likely caused by the air bag being deployed. It happened to my mother when she recently wrecked. She didn't hit her head but the force of the air bag deploying left her windshield cracked.

McSpy said:

In Massachusetts? Also, It is doubtful they could get plates on the weekend. IIRC, they looked for a car on the weekend. I live in Mass., but as far as I know you can't get plates on the weekend and you have to have the car inspected. Maybe they streamlined it recently, but I doubt it. Massachusetts is so regulated. They don't use temporary plates.

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Just yesterday my niece bought a used car in Massachusetts and drove it off the lot.

clueless said:

A question I have is: Is it a FACT that she was caught in credit card fraud? Is it verified anywhere or do we have to simply take Mr. Renner's word for it?

I have no opinion one way or another that Mr. Renner is good or bad in this case. I've read his blog about MM, but haven't really checked him out otherwise. Much of his blog seems gossipy, but I'm glad someone is investigating. However, anyone can have a blog and say anything they want, so I'd like to know if this particular fact has been proven with any evidence.

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The only "evidence" that has been provided is the redacted receipt information Renner provides, which isn't particularly incriminating in my opinion. These "facts" have not been corrobborated by anyone with the authority to do so.

I remain skeptical.

Jane Birch said:

The only "evidence" that has been provided is the redacted receipt information Renner provides, which isn't particularly incriminating in my opinion. These "facts" have not been corrobborated by anyone with the authority to do so.

I remain skeptical.

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Theres also a "mug shot" of sorts that i believe was taken by either security while in the dorm

Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.

clueless said:

Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.

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Yeah, thanks for mentioning the mug shot; I was thinking about it while typing and then....forgot to mention it. It's deeply weird, unofficial and all that.

I'm pretty much with clueless on this one (is that like "I'm with stupid"? ) that until I see actual confirmed evidence that is consistent with...you know, evidence, I'm calling BS.

clueless said:

Yeah, I saw the "mug shot". That has me highly skeptical as well. So, all we have is Mr. Renner's word that it happened, a very unusual "mug shot" and a supposed receipt where the signature has been removed. Credit card fraud is a serious accusation and Maura isn't here to either confirm or defend herself. If she was arrested, then where is her real mug shot and arrest record. If she wasn't and this was treated more like a theft by deception charge people get when they bounce a check, then although she wouldn't have been arrested for it, she still would have gone to court so that a judge could give sentencing. So, there should be an official record somewhere....not just a strange mug shot and supposed receipt. If the matter was solely handled by the school & campus police and no formal charges filed, there still should be some kind of proof. Until I see some official evidence, I'm calling BS on this one. Its just gossip and unproven at that.

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So there is supposedly a "mug shot" taken by campus police? But there has never been any published evidence to support this - documents, the actual photo, an affidavit etc. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Jane, Yes, it's a whole like like saying "I'm with stupid!" Hahaha!

NL,
That's my take on it. I haven't seen any evidence, anywhere. No mention of the alleged credit card fraud in any of the newspaper accounts. I'm not good at looking up public records or anything to see if there is an official court document, but I haven't seen any offered up as proof. All we have is Mr. Renner's word for it.

The "mug shot" picture is on Mr. Renner's blog. It's a not so flattering picture of Maura with her hair pulled back and standing in front of a cinder block wall. I believe it was reportedly in the hallway of her dorm building. I also recall seeing a picture of an alleged receipt as well, but the signature was allegedly removed. It didn't look like there was one there at all, but it certainly could have been photoshopped out. Again, we only have Mr. Renner's word as proof.

Mr. Renner is claiming that Maura was potentially about to be expelled from UMass and that she was also kicked out of West Point due to credit card fraud there. I haven't seen any evidence to back up that allegation either.

As far as I'm concerned, the credit card fraud allegations are complete BS until some real evidence is presented. I'm not going to hold my breath. LOL. The whole think just screams hinky.

While we're discussing gossip.....has anyone seen any evidence or admissions about her supposed relationship with the track coach or other track members? This is another rumor I've not heard anywhere except on Mr. Renner's site. Has any relationship with anyone other than her boyfriend been mentioned in any credible newspaper article that I missed?

As far as the "mug shot" picture goes. I think many dorms take photos of residents so that they know who is supposed to be there (ie. who lives their rather than who is a guest). They keep the photos handy at the desk so that the dorm monitor can be aware of what is going on in the dorm. Back when I was in school there were rules about not having overnight guests in your dorm room and taking the residents photos was supposed to help put a stop to this. Didn't work but that was the theory! Anyhow - I would thin it's entirely possible that the shot of Maura was for this type of purpose. Most of the ones I saw were very casually taken, not very flattering and in front of the inevitable dorm room cinderblock wall.

Did you look at the picture? That could be it, but I'm not sure. I would think that in those casual pictures you talk about, she would have been smiling. Or at least more relaxed. Its just weird, I guess because it's more than just unflattering....she looks almost angry. Not smiling and definitely like she doesn't want her picture taken but has to. She looks older in the pic than any of the others I've seen of her and maybe really tired. That's the only thing that makes it seem more true, but still not believable to me.

clueless said:

Jane, Yes, it's a whole like like saying "I'm with stupid!" Hahaha!

NL,
That's my take on it. I haven't seen any evidence, anywhere. No mention of the alleged credit card fraud in any of the newspaper accounts. I'm not good at looking up public records or anything to see if there is an official court document, but I haven't seen any offered up as proof. All we have is Mr. Renner's word for it.

The "mug shot" picture is on Mr. Renner's blog. It's a not so flattering picture of Maura with her hair pulled back and standing in front of a cinder block wall. I believe it was reportedly in the hallway of her dorm building. I also recall seeing a picture of an alleged receipt as well, but the signature was allegedly removed. It didn't look like there was one there at all, but it certainly could have been photoshopped out. Again, we only have Mr. Renner's word as proof.

Mr. Renner is claiming that Maura was potentially about to be expelled from UMass and that she was also kicked out of West Point due to credit card fraud there. I haven't seen any evidence to back up that allegation either.

As far as I'm concerned, the credit card fraud allegations are complete BS until some real evidence is presented. I'm not going to hold my breath. LOL. The whole think just screams hinky.

While we're discussing gossip.....has anyone seen any evidence or admissions about her supposed relationship with the track coach or other track members? This is another rumor I've not heard anywhere except on Mr. Renner's site. Has any relationship with anyone other than her boyfriend been mentioned in any credible newspaper article that I missed?

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Nope. Like the credit card thing, this has been bandied about as rumor in some circles (cough cough topix cough cough) but never reported by any reputable media outlet. And nobody's ever come forward to talk about it directly--again, the only evidence we have is thru Mr. Renner.

NocturnalLady said:

As far as the "mug shot" picture goes. I think many dorms take photos of residents so that they know who is supposed to be there (ie. who lives their rather than who is a guest). They keep the photos handy at the desk so that the dorm monitor can be aware of what is going on in the dorm. Back when I was in school there were rules about not having overnight guests in your dorm room and taking the residents photos was supposed to help put a stop to this. Didn't work but that was the theory! Anyhow - I would thin it's entirely possible that the shot of Maura was for this type of purpose. Most of the ones I saw were very casually taken, not very flattering and in front of the inevitable dorm room cinderblock wall.

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Heck, it could have been her student ID picture for all we know. god knows those things look like mug shots.

Am I in the minority that think she's still alive? Something about it, something about reading all of it... Am I being too optimistic?

I believe I've said this before, but I've actually considered moving and leaving my life behind. Starting anew. Without telling anyone. The thought, unfortunately, crossed my mind at times.

I could never do it. I have too many loving people in my life.

I really wish I knew what happened to Maura...

I don't know that you're alone. I go back and forth. Now that I don't think she definitely had a head injury (it's still possible, but not absolute), I think it's possible she is still alive. But after all this time I would think that she would have called someone. She has lots of family and friends that care about her, and I can't imagine she wouldn't care enough for them to contact them at some point. I could see her running away at first, but I don't know about staying gone. So, I think it's possible, but more likely that something happened to her.

M86 said:

Am I in the minority that think she's still alive? Something about it, something about reading all of it... Am I being too optimistic?

I believe I've said this before, but I've actually considered moving and leaving my life behind. Starting anew. Without telling anyone. The thought, unfortunately, crossed my mind at times.

I could never do it. I have too many loving people in my life.

I really wish I knew what happened to Maura...

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Ive subscribed to that theory from the beginning. People think its hard to fool people and disappear. I dont feel its that hard to accomplish

AWOLNATION said:

Ive subscribed to that theory from the beginning. People think its hard to fool people and disappear. I dont feel its that hard to accomplish

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I totally agree. I have followed this case since the beginning, through all the boards online on Maura and I keep coming back to this. Some of the blog info so fits my own ideas and thoughts, but who knows.

:bump:

Hardly a day passes where Maura doesn't cross my mind. Maura, where are you?

You are missed. :heartbeat:

Bumping for Maura

- This is AWOLNATION

shefner said:

I agree with all that you said except the last bit. You can buy a car and drive it off the lot in the same day. Been there and done it plenty of times. Salesmen work hard to make it happen.....

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Once I went to look for a new car in a car with engine problems. My car died as I was parking it in the dealership lot. I drove away in a new car that day. Lucky for the salesman, I couldn't have driven away in my old car if I wanted to.

Twice I have traded in my old car at the dealership. Some people advise, though, selling your old car yourself because you can't be sure you're really getting a fair deal when trading in at the dealership. As a woman, I feel more comfortable trading in my old car, but many people - men especially - are do-it-yourselfers.

I read extensively about MM on the Internet before I discovered Websleuths, but had not read about her case here until now. I had wondered if the matter of credit card fraud had come up and see that it has. Elsewhere, years ago I read some comments purportedly from people who lived her in her dorm at UMass. They admitted they didn't know MM personally but knew people who did. That is where I heard about the credit card fraud angle. While that is just hearsay, I wonder if Mr. Renner got his leads by talking to classmates of MM and residents in her dorm.

While that angle is incriminating for MM, it would only indicate that she had a problem if she continued to do something she had already gotten into trouble for doing, and could be related to her dependence on alcohol. It would also explain:

1.) Why she had recently been upset and cried after receiving a phone call. I don't believe she was involved in the hit and run. As a college student, I worked at the front desk of a dorm during the night shift and know that students come and go into the wee hours of the morning. If a front desk attendant needed to leave the post for any length of time, we were required to find a replacement. Leaving the post unattended is a serious breach of security. If MM had left her post long enough to be involved in a hit and run, someone in the dorm would be able to verify that she vacated her post.

2.) She suddenly packed up and left without telling anyone her destination. One theory is that she was heading to Canada to evade fraud charges. I do find it unlikely she would not call her family to let them know she was safe. Sadly, she was vulnerable enough traveling alone and without anyone's knowledge. She became even more vulnerable after crashing her car.

While I want to believe that Maura is still alive and the idea that she was fleeing to start a new life presents that possibility, I don't think it's probable unless someone was meeting MM to give her a ride. But, she wasn't in cell phone range to call someone for help. I do think she got a ride but, chances are, not with someone she knew or could trust. Had she committed suicide or succumbed to the elements, I don't think she would have wandered too far from the accident scene and her remains would have been discovered by now.

Whatever the case, it's so sad that she hasn't been heard from. Her dad has worked tirelessly to find answers, and the saddest part is that her mother died not knowing what became of her daughter. Whether or not we agree with Mr. Renner's methods, he may the only hope of finding answers for her remaining family.