17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

SuziQ said:

O/T Alert

Hey Pssssst!!!

There might be a doc dump in the Susan Powell case tomorrow. Previously unreleased search warrants...lease:

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HiHater said:

I think it's very possible that GZ is telling the truth about what happened that night.

BUT, I think everything he says Trayvon did--he did. (possibly vice versa in some situations)

1. He didn't lose sight of Trayvon, Trayvon lost sight of him.
2. Trayvon didn't circle around and attack him from behind, GZ did.
3. Trayvon didn't say "do you have a problem", GZ did.
4. Trayvon didn't punch GZ in the face immediately, GZ punched Trayvon.
5. GZ's head wasn't slammed repeatedly, Trayvon's was...
6. Trayvon didn't reach for GZ's gun, GZ reached for it.
7. GZ wasn't screaming for help, Trayvon was.


JMO of course...

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Dr.Fessel said:

Think about it. It is a civil case. Zimmerman is the head of the NWP. It could easily go to court and in no time end up with lawyer fees in the 100 of thousands of dollars to be shared by the homeowners.

Zimmerman does not have a home at risk like the rest of these people if they have to pay just the legal fees. It could end up a multi million dollar settlement where homes are lost. Zimmerman has no home to lose.

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m00c0w said:

I believe you're mischaracterizing what he said. He said that he didn't understand why the skittles and tea was coming into play so much; someone could only have chapstick and a toothpick and still put someone in reasonable fear of their life. Which is true.

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Wise Old Owl said:

You are correct. And that's what is worrying me about all these witnesses. IF GZ is arrested and charged and is found by a court of law to be guilty of whatever - manslaughter, negligent homicide, whatever - then TM's family has a very good chance at winning a civil suit against the HOA.

BUT (and this is a big one)

If GZ is found to be not guilty by reason of self defense - does that negate any civil suit against the HOA?

I know that under Stand Your Ground - if that law applies then the victim's family have no grounds for a civil suit but I'm not sure about the self-defense.

I guess, what I'm saying is that if the witnesses realize the huge liability that's hanging over their heads - then that might be motivation to possibly re-think what you actually saw or heard. KWIM?

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joypath said:

GROAN!...on Piers Morgan: Robert Zimmerman, Jr. claimed that GZ's nose was broken and that there is a possibility that blood was going down GZ's throat vs blood over his face/clothes etc.


UMMMMMMMM.....anybody on the forum ever had dental surgery where you've swallowed saliva mixed with copious amounts of blood?.....NOT pleasant, frequently makes one barf! (technical term!) and..........if this were the case, then internal nasal cavity bleeds are wicked serious and can lead to really rotten side effects like...death~yeah, superficial nosebleeds not a biggie but deep bleeds....can be/often are serious!


I REALLY want to see the EMT/SFD run sheets AND the signed AMA waiver regarding hospital transport! (OH, I realllllllly hope they did the paperwork!):banghead::banghead:

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Wise Old Owl said:

BBM

Wait - hold up! Am I correct in thinking that GZ's bro admitted to the racial slur on the tape? I mean, if bro says the slur was because GZ speaks two languages - then isn't he also admitting that there is a racial slur and he (bro) heard it?

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Dr.Fessel said:

Think about it. It is a civil case. Zimmerman is the head of the NWP. It could easily go to court and in no time end up with lawyer fees in the 100 of thousands of dollars to be shared by the homeowners.

Zimmerman does not have a home at risk like the rest of these people if they have to pay just the legal fees. It could end up a multi million dollar settlement where homes are lost. Zimmerman has no home to lose.

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m00c0w said:

Furthermore, even if he does get immunity from civil liability via the stand your ground law, does that mean they couldn't still sue the HOA?

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ynotdivein said:

So GZ was going to the store. Not acting in NW Captain capacity. No reason not to have his permitted concealed-carry gun of choice with him.

He did not self-identify as part of or Captain of the NW in his call to the non-emergency number (and now I have to go back and see if we can discover whether he usually did or did not self-identify in his previous calls). But so be it. He's a citizen who cares about his neighborhood, who's going to the store and notices a potential suspicious person and calls it in to the non-emergency line.

For me, this is where the line blurs. Clearly he chose to do much more than watch and report; he left his vehicle and tracked and followed.

Now--for a non-NW-member citizen, IMO this decision could be written off as foolhardy bravado on the part of someone who just didn't understand that it's better to wait for LE.

But for someone who apparently started the NW program in that small community and was an alert and attentive Captain of that program (as evidenced by prior suspicious activity calls and his interactions with his neighbors)... IMO, for that person to leave their vehicle with their weapon, despite the dispatcher saying "OK we don't need you to do that" (and remember that GZ did not self-identify as a NW Captain on the call nor did he or was he required to reveal that he was armed, so the dispatcher had limited info upon which to base how strong his "we don't need you to do that" message was)...

It seems to me that

- GZ was not "on NW patrol" when he called the non-emerg # that night & was acting in his capacity as a private citizen (failure to self-identify as NW)
- Although acting in his capacity as a private citizen, GZ had knowledge of NW procedures that a non-NW resident might not have had (report, don't intervene)
- Despite acting as a private citizen, GZ chose to violate rules about NW that he surely knew; he followed someone he thought was suspicious, and had his weapon on him. He started the NW program. He knew the recommended courses of action.

I guess I really want to know what was going on in GZ's mind that night, and prior... Did he ever not see himself as Neighborhood Watch Captain when he drove around the complex? Was he ever "off-duty"? Did he expect to make a quick trip to the store and then got himself involved in a situation where he switched from regular resident reporting suspicious activity into NWC tracking down a "suspicious" figure?

Too many questions without answers yet, I know. :sigh:

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HiHater said:

IMO the HOA is getting sued either way it goes. No matter how you slice it, their liability in the incident will be litigated.

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chefmom said:

I can't help but wonder if GZ is "on file" as a volunteer for the SPD. It would explain some of his actions and some of the departments inactions, IMO.

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i.b.nora said:

I think the house is in his father's name. Poor daddy is going to lose his life savings and all his retirement monies, and pensions and whatever else.
Its quite a pickle that George has created for the whole family.

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