2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

Just thought I'd bump this up in case anyone missed it...

There will be NO bashing or deriding or second-guessing of what the social worker did, or how they reacted in the moment.

May no one here ever have to experience what that person has.
 
I've read differing accounts of the time between the children being snatched inside the door by Josh and when the call was placed so who knows what's accurate?

To you it sounds like she didn't relay a sense of urgency. To me it appears that she's attempting to remain calm and not panic.

I'm not sure how I'd react under the circumstances. I hope to never find out. I don't know how you can be so sure how you would react. But to each their own, I guess. :)

Ok, if you read the the 911 transcripts she clearly states he locked her out 10 mins prior to the call. <modsnip> It's not her fault he killed himself and those kids <modsnip>. This is not bashing any one PERSON for the actions of another but you can't deny the obvious. All we can do now is LEARN from mistakes and oversights in this case in hopes of preventing another one similar.
 
OMG that arrogant dispatcher made me want to pull my hair out! The CPS worker asked him how long the cops would be and he responds with an attitude "I don't know ma'am, they have to respond to emergency life-threatening situations first" :furious: Hope he feels like an arse right about now. God bless that CPS worker. She did everything she possibly could to protect those boys.
 
"911, what is your emergency?"

It goes without saying that any call coming in to 911 is presumed to be an emergency. While it is true that some turn out not to be, it is imperative that all be treated as such initially.

And I'll add that it is not the job of the 911 operator to decide what is a true emergency or what isn't. They are simply communication agents.
 
I'm curious what exactly you think she should have/could have done to prevent the ultimate outcome?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that she spent seven minutes on the phone with the 911 operator answering the same questions over and over.

:waitasec:

I've said it once and I'll say it again, it takes 6 minutes for the brain to die due to a lack of oxygen.

I really want to know the time of the first 911 call and time of LE/fire/anyone else's arrival on the scene. Is this information being hidden from public view?
 
I agree with much of what you say.

However, I do think the system needs specific reforms. I've worked in family law and have seen similar potential problems in my state. It's true Josh was/is the only one legally and morally culpable (IMO) for these horrific acts. Nevertheless, we should use this as an eye opening experience to change the system for the better.

Off the top of my head:

1. Once the judge determined last Wednesday that the Cox's would retain primary physical custody of the boys, Josh should have been denied any visitation, supervised or not, until he underwent and passed the psycho-sexual and polygraph exams.

2. His status as a person of interest in his wife's disappearance, along with his tenuous alibi, while having no impact criminally, should have been considered in determining custody.

3. Additionally, there should have been more than one case worker assigned, and any visitation that had existed in the past should have occurred at a neutral location over which Josh had no authority.

Would Josh still have gone postal somewhere else? Perhaps. But the system made it far easier for him by entrusting him control over length of time, place and manner in which to plan, prepare and engage in cold-blooded murder.

To brush this under the rug as an unpreventable atrocity by an evil being risks the occurrence of a similar tragedy in the future. We can do better.


Beautifully said.
 
Just jumpin off your post :)

Depending on his personnel file he should be placed on a probationary period and re trained. I personally do not wish him to be un employed, IF he has a good work record... Surely this isnt the first time he showed zero concern?? JP caused this all. That said, you can bet money the Chief is one un happy man. My heart goes out to ALL involved. All jmo and jme.

I agree. Even someone as callous sounding as this dude was, well I hate to see anybody out of a job, no matter how angry I am with him and believe you me this will stay with this guy a long long time. He needs to be reprimanded big time.

I am a customer service rep for 15 odd years and know if I ever ever ever treated a customer over the phone like this guy - I just wouldn't have a job. Doesn't mean that I've not had a blazing headache at times and maybe haven't been as friendly sounding as I could have been, but every call is important and people should be treated with respect. I was having a hairy day today and apologized to someone if I sounded that way. As soon as this guy heard 'children' he should have snapped to attention and tried to be as soothing as he could to the woman.

It's sad. If nothing else maybe this will maybe have 911 Centers retrain their people, I dunno. It's just been too too much.
 
I understand people's concern about the 911 calls, but I don't think anything could have prevented what this monster planned.

imho
 
I agree. Even someone as callous sounding as this dude was, well I hate to see anybody out of a job, no matter how angry I am with him and believe you me this will stay with this guy a long long time. He needs to be reprimanded big time.

I am a customer service rep for 15 odd years and know if I ever ever ever treated a customer over the phone like this guy - I just wouldn't have a job. Doesn't mean that I've not had a blazing headache at times and maybe haven't been as friendly sounding as I could have been, but every call is important and people should be treated with respect. I was having a hairy day today and apologized to someone if I sounded that way. As soon as this guy heard 'children' he should have snapped to attention and tried to be as soothing as he could to the woman.

It's sad. If nothing else maybe this will maybe have 911 Centers retrain their people, I dunno. It's just been too too much.

Dispatch says while his lackluster communication left a lot to be desired, they state it didn't effect the amount time to get personnel dispatched to the scene. State says while the contracted social worker didn't do anything wrong, we know ten minutes lapsed before she contacted 911. The bottom line is that we can justify all day long because no one involved did anything "wrong" but precious minutes were wasted and there IS mega, mega room for improvement.
 
Just saw this posted by Kirk Graves on the Friends and Family of Susan Powell FB page:

Kirk Graves
BTW, the custody battle is over. Susan has been granted custody.

How comforting. :rose:
 
Ok, if you read the the 911 transcripts she clearly states he locked her out 10 mins prior to the call. <modsnip>. The bottom line is Josh Powell was a MURDER suspect. It doesn't get any more serious that that. <modsnip>. It's not her fault he killed himself and those kids but it doesn't absolve her or the state for what happened on their watch. This is not bashing any one PERSON for the actions of another but you can't deny the obvious. All we can do now is LEARN from mistakes and oversights in this case in hopes of preventing another one similar.

RBBM

I understand the need to look at how things might be handled differently in the future in a constructive manner, HOWEVER re. the portion I bolded in red -

They don't NEED any absolution because they are not guilty of doing anything more than the best they could do at the time.

I really do not understand this need to place blame.
 
The 911 guy was told 2 kids were just kidnapped after which they could be heard crying.
 
RBBM

I understand the need to look at how things might be handled differently in the future in a constructive manner, HOWEVER re. the portion I bolded in red -

They don't NEED any absolution because they are not guilty of doing anything more than the best they could do at the time.

I really do not understand this need to place blame.

THANK YOU! .. my whole point is that we should strive to do better and like another poster stated we CAN do better. I expect more out of those who serve to protect. We don't put law enforcement officials on the streets with a gun without appropriate training. Why should we settle for less in any other area of public protection, especially when it comes to our children? In order to do better we should discuss the good, the bad and the ugly in hopes of being BETTER prepared in the future. It bothers me they weren't better prepared and I whole heartedly believe they could have been. Whether or not it would have changed the outcome is beside the point, IMHO.
 
Dispatch says while his lackluster communication left a lot to be desired, they state it didn't effect the amount time to get personnel dispatched to the scene. State says while the contracted social worker didn't do anything wrong, we know ten minutes lapsed before she contacted 911. The bottom line is that we can justify all day long because no one involved did anything "wrong" but precious minutes were wasted and there IS mega, mega room for improvement.
BBM

Not sure why you say that but it is not true. She says this a little past the half way point in the 7 minute call. It probably seemed like 10 minutes to her.



SOCIAL WORKER: Foster Care Resource Network. (Pause). And the kids have been in there by now approximately 10 minutes. And he knows this is a supervised visit.


4 minutes and 20 seconds into the tape she says the kids have been in there approximately 10 minutes.

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=38849&p=&n=AudioClip
 
I agree with much of what you say.

However, I do think the system needs specific reforms. I've worked in family law and have seen similar potential problems in my state. It's true Josh was/is the only one legally and morally culpable (IMO) for these horrific acts. Nevertheless, we should use this as an eye opening experience to change the system for the better.

Off the top of my head:

1. Once the judge determined last Wednesday that the Cox's would retain primary physical custody of the boys, Josh should have been denied any visitation, supervised or not, until he underwent and passed the psycho-sexual and polygraph exams.

2. His status as a person of interest in his wife's disappearance, along with his tenuous alibi, while having no impact criminally, should have been considered in determining custody.

3. Additionally, there should have been more than one case worker assigned, and any visitation that had existed in the past should have occurred at a neutral location over which Josh had no authority.

Would Josh still have gone postal somewhere else? Perhaps. But the system made it far easier for him by entrusting him control over length of time, place and manner in which to plan, prepare and engage in cold-blooded murder.

To brush this under the rug as an unpreventable atrocity by an evil being risks the occurrence of a similar tragedy in the future. We can do better.

I agree. Based on the background in this case, even his lawyer mentioned he was very upset with the outcome of Wednesday's Court hearing, some systemic changes are in order.
The safety of the children was paramount. And so was the safety of the contract case worker and Powell's neighbors, they were all compromised.
They played Russian roulette in this case.
Put it another way. If I was a father suspected of killing my wife but innocent, I would fully understand any precautions taken to ensure the safety of the children.
And if it is determined that it takes two case workers, , armed guard , whatever, may be there should be no visitations at all.
Something needs to change.
 
And once again, hypothetically speaking of course, if someone - anyone - is supervising a murder suspect with their children and they have been locked out of the house, hears screaming from the kids inside and smells enough gasoline to want to move their car away from the house - it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that zero minutes should transpire before executing an emergency call. IMHO, only of course.
I thought she was on the phone with 911 when she smelled gasoline.
 
THANK YOU! .. my whole point is that we should strive to do better and like another poster stated we CAN do better. I expect more out of those who serve to protect. We don't put law enforcement officials on the streets with a gun without appropriate training. Why should we settle for less in any other area of public protection, especially when it comes to our children? In order to do better we should discuss the good, the bad and the ugly in hopes of being BETTER prepared in the future. It bothers me they weren't better prepared and I whole heartedly believe they could have been. Whether or not it would have changed the outcome is beside the point, IMHO.

Respectfully...I don't think she could have done any better than she did.

I honestly can't imagine what training this lady could have had that would have helped her in this situation.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she move the car WHILE on the phone with 911? Furthermore, WHY are we quibbling over her moving the car? If she left it, would that have magically helped the kids get out of the house? Deputies to arrive sooner? Powell to have a change of heart?

NO.
 

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