AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

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Veritas said:
From Nancy Grace show Friday: "Now, in addition to that, the car drove home by again past us. The grandparents live at the end of this street. The car parked there. Three people got out. "

I didn't know before that the grandparents live at the end of this street!!!!! They are in Isa's daily life and THEY are not on-camera pleading?????

I am from a Hispanic family and I can tell you that this is VERY culturally significant to me. Do the abuelos feel the need to protect someone else? In our family it would be most likely be a male offspring -- my aunties are strongly loyal to the boys no matter what.
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bbm
THANK YOU!
 
Prof said:
There were two posts in the thread yesterday about what the chief stated on other people in the video-- that I found.

The first mention

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #6



The second was your own, asking if the Chief meant all of the videos.
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The only reason I am questioning this is because I am sure there are other videos showing people cars, etc. and when he said he had talked to others in videos I computed it to mean "other" videos and not this one in particular. That is what I wanted to check out for myself. I never got the impression he meant this video. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted it. jmo
 
Veritas said:
So the grandparents live on the street (and close enough that a reporter can see 3 people stop and go in).

Which direction is the grandparents' house? Are the people in the video walking toward or away from the grandparents' home when they arrive/depart on screen? Who else lives in that house and were the grandparents home that night?

This is NOT to implicate anyone in the immediate family -- but everyone they know well likely knows them well in turn and their group of acquaintances likely holds some answers.
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The people do not walk on the Celis street or alleyway at all. They are walking East on Cooper after they leave the church parking lot.

The grandparents' home is on the same street as the Celis home. That street is one block north of the walkers. I assume the grandparents' home is east of the Celis home, as their street does not continue west there.
 
I am on the fence about this case. In one instance, I think of the neighbor's recollection about dogs barking and hearing mens' voices at 6:30 a.m. and I just cannot fathom an abduction occurring at that time. How would they not know someone was up in that house? Or the neighbor's house? It's daylight and if it was two men taking Isa, no one else saw them doing so? Walking to a car or on foot with a child? It's just so strange to me if it happened then and the only thing I can think of that makes sense at this time of morning is if something happened to Isa in that house. Two male voices? Dad and uncle? Staging an abduction scene? Dogs going frantic because they sense something very, very wrong?

Dogs are protective of kids. How would they act if a child they are always around is deceased?

Then I think of the video and the lurking figure at 1-1:30 a.m. Seems really close to Isa's house and a more likely time of night when someone would abduct a child as it's in the cover of darkness.

Oh, Isa, I hope they find you soon!
 
About that window screen :

This house was built in 2006 ? So the windows would be fairly new. I have newer windows too, and the screens cannot be taken off from the outside. Our screens have two little plastic tabs on the INSIDE. To get the screens off, you have to open the window from the inside,and pull on those plastic tabs.

So, I do not see any abductor wasting his time struggling to take off a window screen. He would have had only a limited amount of time to take this child,and speed and stealth would have been key.

Why on earth wouldn't he just cut the screen ? It is quicker,quieter,and would leave none of his prints on the screen...

I can now understand why LE will never say that the window was a point of entry....MOO
 
curiousc said:
I am on the fence about this case. In one instance, I think of the neighbor's recollection about dogs barking and hearing mens' voices at 6:30 a.m. and I just cannot fathom an abduction occurring at that time. How would they not know someone was up in that house? Or the neighbor's house? It's daylight and if it was two men taking Isa, no one else saw them doing so? Walking to a car or on foot with a child? It's just so strange to me if it happened then and the only thing I can think of that makes sense at this time of morning is if something happened to Isa in that house. Two male voices? Dad and uncle? Staging an abduction scene? Dogs going frantic because they sense something very, very wrong?

Dogs are protective of kids? How would they act if a child they are always around is deceased?

Then I think of the video and the lurking figure at 1-1:30 a.m. Seems really close to Isa's house and a more likely time of night when someone would abduct a child as it's in the cover of darkness.

Oh, Isa, I hope they find you soon!
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The neighbor said that there was a knock on her door around 8 or 8 thirty. I wonder if at that time she told LE or uncle or whoever was at the door about hearing the dogs and men's voices. jmo
 
mck16 said:
The neighbor said that there was a knock on her door around 8 or 8 thirty. I wonder if at that time she told LE or uncle or whoever was at the door about hearing the dogs and men's voices. jmo
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I bet she did. If I were her that would have been one of the first things I would have told them. Wonder how they reacted if she had told them.
 
liz b. said:
About that window screen :

This house was built in 2006 ? So the windows would be fairly new. I have newer windows too, and the screens cannot be taken off from the outside. Our screens have two little plastic tabs on the INSIDE. To get the screens off, you have to open the window from the inside,and pull on those plastic tabs.

So, I do not see any abductor wasting his time struggling to take off a window screen. He would have had only a limited amount of time to take this child,and speed and stealth would have been key.

Why on earth wouldn't he just cut the screen ? It is quicker,quieter,and would leave none of his prints on the screen...

I can now understand why LE will never say that the window was a point of entry....MOO
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Describing the screens as you did I think it could very well be the point of exit. What do you think?
 
mck16 said:
The only reason I am questioning this is because I am sure there are other videos showing people cars, etc. and when he said he had talked to others in videos I computed it to mean "other" videos and not this one in particular. That is what I wanted to check out for myself. I never got the impression he meant this video. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted it. jmo
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I wish I could have found a copy of that presser. I think once he announced the surveilance video was posted on TPD youtube channel posters focused on finding that.

The poster did say that the Chief had permission of any others in the video to post it. I am not sure that makes sense to me now that I think about it. He didn't have permission of these five, so why worry about permission at all?

Other than that, when I look at the video connecting my lap top to my television, it seems the person is moving with a purpose, rather than stalking.
JMO still spooky regardless in the context of a little girl missing 150 yards away.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
I'm not surprised to learn about the possibility of drugs being involved in Isa's disappearance. When Sergio mentioned "meeting (your) demands" during his statement, I couldn't help thinking that he might have an inkling what is going on and who might be involved. :moo:
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I took the statement to be very general. Being so close to the border, in a state that has seen many kidnappings, I think it is only logical to look at the drug world. They are looking at many angles, this just happens to be one as well.
 
If the screens only have those two tabs (mine are like this) they need only be quickly pried/popped out with a screw driver, knife etc...

Just jumping off your post here...
Burglars often use their own socks or long t-shirts to cover their hands so they don't leave prints. Yes, those super long and super large t-shirts and baggy cargo pants often have a purpose. Quite a few of the inmate inventory/evidence inventory lists I have read have listed socks as being in the possession of a thief in addition to the socks on their feet at the time of arrest. Socks can be considered a burglary tool as much as gloves now. Just sayin'...

IMO
 
Prof said:
I wish I could have found a copy of that presser. I think once he announced the surveilance video was posted on TPD youtube channel posters focused on finding that.

The poster did say that the Chief had permission of any others in the video to post it. I am not sure that makes sense to me now that I think about it. He didn't have permission of these five, so why worry about permission at all?

Other than that, when I look at the video connecting my lap top to my television, it seems the person is moving with a purpose, rather than stalking.
JMO still spooky regardless in the context of a little girl missing 150 yards away.
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Yes, and I would think that person behind the fence would be the key person not the 5 walking. Course he might have been easier to find. But, it is funny since the man is suspicious he would not say we have interviewed the man behind the fence. Last night we were even questioning if the LE had seen him. That presser has to be somewhere. jmo
 
Lava said:
Hundreds of kidnappings for ransom occur in Arizona every year. However, these mostly have to do with drugs and/or illegal aliens. And I don't think stealth is a priority. I think if a cartel had something to do with this they wouldn't have done it in this way.
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I'm mobile, and can't really google this, but just last year a cartel walked into a home in AZ, took a child from the home with the parents there.

Child wasnt hurt and was returned rather quickly.

It's not odd to me they could have taken Isa from the home in this way, that is IF that happened.

Like others, when Isas dad said "tell is your demands" a red flag was thrown.
 
Veritas said:
From Nancy Grace show Friday: "Now, in addition to that, the car drove home by again past us. The grandparents live at the end of this street. The car parked there. Three people got out. "

I didn't know before that the grandparents live at the end of this street!!!!! They are in Isa's daily life and THEY are not on-camera pleading?????

I am from a Hispanic family and I can tell you that this is VERY culturally significant to me. Do the abuelos feel the need to protect someone else? In our family it would be most likely be a male offspring -- my aunties are strongly loyal to the boys no matter what.
Click to expand...

I just read what one neighbor said about why the Celis' (Sergio and Becky) moved to that house.

"The Pikes say the Celis family is very loving and very caring. They moved into the neighborhood so they could be closer to one of their mother's who suffered a stroke."
KVOA

The grandfather has appeared on camera, but he seemed to stick very close to his house. I now understand why.

The abuelos are Sergio's parents.
 
Prof said:
I just read what one neighbor said about why the Celis' (Sergio and Becky) moved to that house.

"The Pikes say the Celis family is very loving and very caring. They moved into the neighborhood so they could be closer to one of their mother's who suffered a stroke."
KVOA

The abuelos are Sergio's parents.
Click to expand...
If the address is correct in two posts above this one, their previous home was on a foreclosed home list.??
 
dsntslp said:
If the screens only have those two tabs (mine are like this) they need only be quickly pried/popped out with a screw driver, knife etc...

Just jumping off your post here...
Burglars often use their own socks or long t-shirts to cover their hands so they don't leave prints. Yes, those super long and super large t-shirts and baggy cargo pants often have a purpose. Quite a few of the inmate inventory/evidence inventory lists I have read have listed socks as being in the possession of a thief in addition to the socks on their feet at the time of arrest. Socks can be considered a burglary tool as much as gloves now. Just sayin'...

IMO
Click to expand...

That is true and they often wear two pairs of pants so they can quickly change them.
 
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