AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

mck16 said:

BTW I have searched for a video of the presser. No luck so I sent an email to the station and asked if they had a video archived. Hopefully they will respond with a yes.

As far as the uncle I haven't seen anything either. tia

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Thank you!

The one presser that might have had new information, and I missed it.

While I too do not believe the parents did anything to Isabel, I did get a weird vibe from Dad that maybe he has some idea of the "who" or the "why"....something seemed a little odd in his demeanor, other than the obvious drama and trauma of the situation-JMO.

Prof said:

Good questions. Can we sleuth him?

Once I have the official answer, I might share some of what I know.

I can share that I have not seen anything (in my research of the family) that makes me suspect him any more than anyone else.

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Since everyone is a POI, I guess we can. jmo

cluciano63 said:

I would be surprised if someone came in while they were gone, yet left the screen there, on the ground where it could be easily seen. With the dogs, the family was likely to let them out, or bring them in, when they got home, see the screen, and perhaps search the house with a gun, for all the abductor would know. Seems like he would have hidden it...JMO

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Oh, I meant maybe that's the way he exited.

Boodles said:

Does anyone know whose brother the uncle is?

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I thought he was on the mother's side of the family, but I'm not sure. Her maiden name is different than his last name, and on his FB, for 'family', he only has a brother listed.

Boodles said:

Does anyone know whose brother the uncle is?

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This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?

I would agree with you for sure that there is something off with the scenario, cluciano63.

What I find odd with regards to this family?

1. Dogs caught at large one week before daughter disappears, charged with a misdemeanor, and yet dogs are allowed to bark outside "frantically" at 6:30 on a Saturday morning, when you have the intention of going to court in a few days to plead not guilty. This does not sound like responsible or civic minded behavior to me. [Yes, I am a biased dog lover, though.] Still, one should probably tiptoe if one has 8 pending citations and a misdemeanor charge that could result in jail time for not following animal regulations simply for your own benefit (not the dogs).
2. It is hard to understand why if one feels their daughter might be kidnapped for ransom, why one would leave the home.
3. It is harder to understand why one who hopes their daughter will be found alive would not get in front of the media, or at least have some spokesperson get in front of the media every hour, every broadcast, to keep this in the media attention.
4. It is hard to understand why when the leads slow down, and the local papers move on to other stories just one week after your child disappears, why you are not making it about Isa again by saying yes again to all of the media who were begging for you to speak all week?
5. It's just hard to understand how this could happen logistically.

I'll stop there, but I do want to say that my mind is still open. I don't know what has happened to this beautiful little girl. Please don't let this case go cold.

mck16 said:

Since everyone is a POI, I guess we can. jmo

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I am not really comfortable with those boundaries, or lackthereof; I guess.

mck16 said:

Describing the screens as you did I think it could very well be the point of exit. What do you think?

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Well, LE reported the screen was "pushed" out, and on the ground. Perhaps the lurking figure had an accomplice who was in the house and that person handed Isa out the window, and then he jummped down. So, perhaps the idea that someone was hiding in the house isn't so far-fetched.

I have no idea, just throwing this out because I am not sure of anything.

Quiche said:

This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?

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Regarding the uncle, I am pretty sure he is single. But up thread it was said that the sister made the report, does anyone remember that?

Quiche said:

This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?

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Interesting you mention an Aunt ... Hint, look downstairs at a rewind post of Peachy's ...

Shelby2 said:

Regarding the uncle, I am pretty sure he is single. But up thread it was said that the sister made the report, does anyone remember that?

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Yes, I do remember that... hmmmm, maybe they aren't legally married yet, but the kids call him uncle anyway? (Who knows, these days? American's are pretty liberal with the title of "uncle," in my experience anyway.)

Patty G said:

Rick actually stated:
(snip)

What we saw right here was a couple of people walking up and down the street, Nancy. And we think that that was maybe the father and the brother. And then the police had us right at that moment cut off the digital recording, and they took that evidence and that`s when they took it away. So we think that that was just the father...

GRACE: ... is Isabel`s father and his brother, which would be Isabel`s uncle, walking around in front of the Celis home.(snip)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/27/ng.01.html

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Moore did not say "father and his brother" he said "the father and THE brother" which I understood to mean ISABEL's father and ISABEL's brother. Then (in typical fashion) Nancy turns his words around to mean something else. THE "UNCLE" IN QUESTION IS NOT THE FATHER'S BROTHER.

BrownRice said:

To me (maybe not anybody else?), there is still confusion about this "uncle":

1. How is he an uncle (SC's brother, BC's brother, some other relation but not really an "uncle" by definition;

2. Was he staying at the house or did he arrive in the morning?

If the uncle is involved, I cannot imagine SC helping him cover up the scene of his own child, unless of course he was involved as well, which I don't think at this point........ (snip)

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I believe it has been stated that he is NOT actually Isabel's uncle, but is perhaps the cousin of Isabel's mother. This explains the different last names. As I understand it (MOO) he was not asked to speak for the family, he just assumed the role of spokesman and didn't make a great first impression when he described a six year old as having ambitions and being wise... not to mention the past tense.

Veritas said:

From Nancy Grace show Friday: "Now, in addition to that, the car drove home by again past us. The grandparents live at the end of this street. The car parked there. Three people got out. "

I didn't know before that the grandparents live at the end of this street!!!!!
(snip).

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SilkySifaka said:

The parents house is just down the block though. He could have been over there in an instant with a call to see if Isa was there.

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Isabel's father's parents live a block away. A RSO lives between the two. The uncle IS NOT the father's brother, so it is unlikely he'd stay with Sergio's parents.

TxLady2 said:

Listening to the parents' accents, I'm going to say, I don't think English is their first language, so personally I can't put much into the uncle using the past tense.

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As I understand it from past threads the uncle is much younger, is not related by blood to Isabel or her parents, and his first language is English, not Spanish. Consider all of this MOO (not going to dig up all the posts, sorry).

Also, regarding lie detector tests, at yesterday morning's Press Conference, the spokesperson all but confirmed that they had administered them to the family. He was very very calculated in his language and quite verbose, saying the department "uses those assests" as standard procedure, and that media could draw their own conclusion.

So, if they admimistered them to family, and if they told the family the results, then perhaps they didn't go well for one or the other. And perhaps that's why the family has been reluctant to be in front of the cameras.

KaylynnCouture said:

The video is taken right near the Saint Joseph Catholic Church which is exactly 0.4 miles from the house, according to Google maps.

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I think it is .4 miles BY CAR. Ask Google for directions, and you will see that they show a right turn onto the divided highway... the direction AWAY from Isa's home. Then there is a u-turn to get onto the correct side of the highway and then the mileage back to where you entered the roadway at the church, and then a block further to Isabel's home. So it is one block on foot, .4 miles by car, because of the divided roadway that forces a driver to travel in the wrong direction until he can turn around and go the right way.

dimples37398 said:

I think, based on watching the video over and over, that the figure walks over to the wall, closer to where the 5 walked by, if you watch the video closely after he walks over that way, you can see movement there like he is climbing or jumping to look over the wall, then you can almost see him jump/drop down and walk back the direction he came from. Maybe he was looking for a victim that night.

It still for me doesn't explain, how he knew which room was Isa's. How he knew or would take a chance on the 3 dogs, How he knew nobody would wake up while going out the back door or back out the window.

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Does anyone have a link to the video you are refering to?

Concerning the Isabel's parents TV plea, especially the father gave me a very odd feeling.
To me it seemed that he forced his grief/desperation expressions and voice.
In a situation like that, IMHO, you will try to keep in control but the grief/desparation expressions and voice, once in a while, will probably "brake through" the control.
With the father, to me, it kind of seemed like it worked the other way around, it came across odd to me.

There was also something about the mother that didn´t seem right; at the end of her plea her facial expression, and her voice, one of a sudden change from grief/desparation to total normal facial expression and totaly normal voice, odd!

I also agree with others that the emotional connection between the parents, throughout the plea, seem detached and cold.

Not saying they had anything to do with Isabel's diappearence, however, so far, I would not ruel them out.

I also don´t understand why Isabels parents didn´t wake up and checked out that their 3 dogs barked like carzy at 6:30 in the morning, VERY odd in my opinion??? I mean they had 3 children sleeping in the house.

Prof said:

I am not really comfortable with those boundaries, or lackthereof; I guess.

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I agree, but I was hoping someone would hop in and tell me I was wrong or right. This debate went on a few days ago talking about sleuthing the parents. We were curious since no one had been named a pol. One of the mods responded with everyone is a suspect. So, maybe one will let us know for sure. jmo

Shelby2 said:

It would be interesting to see if the video showed the Uncle ARRIVE at the house that morning.

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What we saw right here was a couple of people walking up and down the street, Nancy. And we think that that was maybe the father and the brother. And then the police had us right at that moment cut off the digital recording, and they took that evidence and that`s when they took it away. So we think that that was just the father...

GRACE: ... is Isabel`s father and his brother, which would be Isabel`s uncle, walking around in front of the Celis home.

MOORE: Nancy, that`s conjecture on my part. I think that`s who it was. The police didn`t want us to speculate about who that was.

GRACE: OK, great. You earlier -- I get it.

MOORE: We didn`t know Isabel`s father at the time (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: I get it, Rick. I get it that you don`t know who the people are. You earlier mentioned...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/27/ng.01.html

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Yes, Shelby IMO that video surveillance footage IMO does show specifically if the uncle arrived at the Celis home that morning prior to dad discovering Isa missing.. This of course is moo but due to what IS STATED IN THE ABOVE QUOTE BY RICK MOORE(thanks to pattyG for posting transcript.. it wasn't yet available last night when I posted so was strictly going by memory from having been in the room when Nancy was on).. Again moo but if the uncle(who at the time Moore watched the video he did not know who the uncle or the father were) its IMO had Moore seen this other male with the dad have arrived at the home that morning BEFORE 8am when Isa was discovered missing.. IMO Moore would've said he saw a male arrive at the home.. And then followed by his seeing the male and dad then emerge from the home shortly after 8am.. So, IMOO his NOT saying this IMO lends credence to it being that Moore saw just what he says he saw in the dad and the male(thought to be the uncle as is corroborated by the neighbor)emerging from the home after 8am..

I believe that Moore would have indicated that the male arrived at the home AND THEN the rest of his statement of what he saw.. While it is not specifically stated either way my own personal view is that the other male, the uncle was in the home(and had been there for ATLEAST some fairly good amount of time prior to discovering Isa missing)..But that's just my personal take on it.. I'm not at all claiming that to be a fact it's just MOO..

Now, still even tho that's my opinion that the uncle was in the home I still have nothing indicating that he's somehow or in any way involved in Isa's disappearance.. For me almost all options are still on the table as far as possibilities of what type abduction this is(stranger, family/close friend, death covered up with abduction, etc)..

Of course these are nothing more than jmo, tho!


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

A new picture of Isabel released on the Find Isabel facebook page.

Quiche said:

This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?

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DH and I have discussed this possibility. We've been going to the same dental office for more than 35 years. The original dentist retired about 10 years ago, but the original dental assistant and two of the original hygienists have been there since the beginning (one just retired last month). There have been four or five hygienists over the course of 35+ years, none of whom were full-time. We've seen some of them raise families and become grandparents like ourselves.

Having performed with local community theatre groups, I agree that the rehearsal and production schedule can be rigorous: Late nights several times weekly, Saturday, Sunday, and then one or two (or more) weekends of performances. I visited the Tucson Opera's website and noticed that they do several shows annually, so it's safe to say that Mr. Celis puts in a lot of time with the company and likely earns some type of salary for the performances. :moo: