AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

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So they don't think that EJ was headed to the Mexico border?
But they do know that her cell phone was pinging in Victoria?

From my understanding it was the media who said the cell phone pings showed her in Victoria heading to Mexico. I don't think LE has ever said this, but I could be wrong. What bothers me is if you are in San Antonio and want to go to Mexico, you would most likely not go through Victoria. So I thought the media was just being dramatic when they found out about the pings. I will be happy to eat crow if we find out different. Just pass the salt and pepper please.

Very interesting about Tornado bus company not going through Victoria at all. So, are the reports of pings in Victoria incorrect, or was she there before she ever got on the bus? On Tornado's website it does not show routes but there is a list of offices and one of them is Nashville, TN.
 
See then I try searching and I read this.....

"It has been determined that Elizabeth purchased a Greyhound bus ticket to Miami Florida on December 27, 2009. She did not have Gabriel with her when she boarded the bus."
http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/?p=2422

Where did the Ft. Lauderdale info come from in the first place anyone know?
 
Could she have taken the Tornado bus to the Greyhound station?

The tornado has a tranfer to an autobus in Houston, but there'd be no reason to pay that kind money only to pay a different bus line to get her to Florida.

I think there's something/ someone in Victoria.
 
Google map Tempe, AZ to San Antonio, TX: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...35,-105.23307&spn=18.026986,27.158203&t=h&z=5

Google map Nashville, TN to San Antonio, TX: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...745,-92.636719&spn=8.896475,13.579102&t=h&z=6

Google map San Antonio, TX to Victoria, TX: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...2856,-97.748605&spn=2.310481,3.394775&t=h&z=8

Google map San Antonio, TX to Miami, FL: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...748605&sspn=2.310481,3.394775&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=5 Doesn't go through Victoria, but it could make a quick loop if the Bus Line had a stop there...

Google maps doesn't appear to work for destinations in Mexico for some reason? However if you look at the map showing Victoria, you can clearly see, as many WSer's were telling us, that Victoria is in the OPPOSITE direction of the Mexican border.

Salem
 
You know, the Smiths from what they said tonight had contact with EJ quite a few times while she was on the run. Why did she lie in a prior interview that she did not?
Mark Klaas said it best - these people need to tell LE what they know then go away. There is no reason for them to keep staying involved in this case, if as they keep stating they are not involved.
I tell you I am confused as anything! This case is making me crazy, the Smiths story keeps changing, things don't make sense, Elizabeth is lying, and still here we are 13 (I think) days later with no sign of Gabriel.
Thanks you Suzi for the bus schedule -that helped, and Closer for the map! That really made it clearer to me the geography, since I have never even been to that part of the country except passing through north Texas.;)


hmmmm... you just made me wonder, have the Smith's been buying time on purpose?
 
See then I try searching and I read this.....

"It has been determined that Elizabeth purchased a Greyhound bus ticket to Miami Florida on December 27, 2009. She did not have Gabriel with her when she boarded the bus."
http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/?p=2422

Where did the Ft. Lauderdale info come from in the first place anyone know?

So Greyhound it is.
 
Ya, she got on the bus in San Antonio by herself. Walked straight to the bus. He was passed off or dead before then. Poor poor baby.


Both psychologists on NG tonight seemed to think that Gabe was probably no longer with us.

Salem
 
From my understanding it was the media who said the cell phone pings showed her in Victoria heading to Mexico. I don't think LE has ever said this, but I could be wrong. What bothers me is if you are in San Antonio and want to go to Mexico, you would most likely not go through Victoria. So I thought the media was just being dramatic when they found out about the pings. I will be happy to eat crow if we find out different. Just pass the salt and pepper please.

Very interesting about Tornado bus company not going through Victoria at all. So, are the reports of pings in Victoria incorrect, or was she there before she ever got on the bus? On Tornado's website it does not show routes but there is a list of offices and one of them is Nashville, TN.
Media said and said it was based on court docs. No link, but I'll dig it up if needed.
 
So they don't think that EJ was headed to the Mexico border?
But they do know that her cell phone was pinging in Victoria?

According to the NG show and newspaper articles, the arrest documents are what say EJ's cell pinged in Victoria, TX, "heading for the Mexican border."

But before Johnson was arrested at a youth hostel in Miami Beach, a cell phone signal was tracked to her in Victoria, Texas, three days earlier, according to a court document. Victoria is 115 miles southwest of San Antonio, and the signal was last caught moving toward the Mexico border, according to the document. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149226

I wonder if she threw her cell phone into someone's car or on a bus.
 
Prime writer is not an actual news source, it's more like a blog. Hold it to the standard of WIkipedia, it's not necessarily factual, any one can write for it.
 
Will this theory fit the facts we know of? I've gone through to confirm facts/dates, but not sure if other info will conflict.

Dec 8: Logan & Eliz fight and Eliz tells Logan to leave. He does.

Dec 9: Eliz calls Logan at work and tells him she wants him to relinquish his paternal rights so she can give Gabriel up for adoption. He refuses. Eliz takes Gabriel to the Smiths, then calls LE & says Logan has taken Gabriel & she doesn't know where Gabriel is. Gabriel found 6 hours later at the Smiths. The craigslist ad is a lie Eliz told about how she met the Smiths. A Tempe detective at the Smiths when Gabriel is found sees the papers the Smiths have drawn up about temporary guardianship. Gabriel spends 8 days with the Smiths.

Dec 17: Court orders that Logan is Gabriel's father. Eliz realizes that she can't give Gabriel up for adoption to the Smiths. Eliz's rage increases.

Dec 18: Eliz picks up Gabriel from the Smiths for a weekend visit with Logan. She doesn't want to do this, but feel court/DCFS/whatever pressure to do it. Eliz's rage increases further - she's enjoyed her 8 days without the baby she doesn't want. She decides not to let Logan have his visit with Gabriel, and takes off with him.

Dec 22: Eliz has been driving aimlessly over the last few days. Ends up in San Antonio. She's frustrated with having to care for Gabriel and angry with Logan for not cooperating in letting her get rid of him.

Dec 23 - Dec 26: Eliz, off her meds, frustrated with having to care for Gabriel who she doesn't want and has had a taste of life without him grows ever more enraged and out of control.

Dec 26: Takes Gabriel to the park and it is at that point that she goes over the edge. She takes Gabriel's life.

Dec 27: Morning. Eliz has to get out of town. Leaves everything belonging to Gabriel. Ditches her car. Takes off on the bus to Miami Beach.

TIA
 
I know exactly what you mean! I live in Tempe and I can't even begin to express how frustrating this is to me.

I'm right there with you two. Marigold, we are neighbors, I'm in Chandler Az.
 
According to the NG show and newspaper articles, the arrest documents are what say EJ's cell pinged in Victoria, TX, "heading for the Mexican border."



I wonder if she threw her cell phone into someone's car or on a bus.

Victoria is actually southeast of San Antonio so, I would rather see the arrest documents for myself.
 
December 27th is the day the cell phone pinged in Victoria and December 27th is the day she left to get on the bus to head to Florida and December 27th is the day she texted Logan the message that she had killed Gabriel and put his body in the dumpster.

There is a reason why she went to Victoria. it is very possible that she went there to find a place to dump/hide Gabriel and then head back to SA to catch her bus ride to Miami.

I hope they have people looking for him in Victoria
 
Will this theory fit the facts we know of? I've gone through to confirm facts/dates, but not sure if other info will conflict.

Dec 8: Logan & Eliz fight and Eliz tells Logan to leave. He does.

Dec 9: Eliz calls Logan at work and tells him she wants him to relinquish his paternal rights so she can give Gabriel up for adoption. He refuses. Eliz takes Gabriel to the Smiths, then calls LE & says Logan has taken Gabriel & she doesn't know where Gabriel is. Gabriel found 6 hours later at the Smiths. The craigslist ad is a lie Eliz told about how she met the Smiths. A Tempe detective at the Smiths when Gabriel is found sees the papers the Smiths have drawn up about temporary guardianship. Gabriel spends 8 days with the Smiths.

Dec 17: Court orders that Logan is Gabriel's father. Eliz realizes that she can't give Gabriel up for adoption to the Smiths. Eliz's rage increases.

Dec 18: Eliz picks up Gabriel from the Smiths for a weekend visit with Logan. She doesn't want to do this, but feel court/DCFS/whatever pressure to do it. Eliz's rage increases further - she's enjoyed her 8 days without the baby she doesn't want. She decides not to let Logan have his visit with Gabriel, and takes off with him.

Dec 22: Eliz has been driving aimlessly over the last few days. Ends up in San Antonio. She's frustrated with having to care for Gabriel and angry with Logan for not cooperating in letting her get rid of him.

Dec 23 - Dec 26: Eliz, off her meds, frustrated with having to care for Gabriel who she doesn't want and has had a taste of life without him grows ever more enraged and out of control.

Dec 26: Takes Gabriel to the park and it is at that point that she goes over the edge. She takes Gabriel's life.

Dec 27: Morning. Eliz has to get out of town. Leaves everything belonging to Gabriel. Ditches her car. Takes off on the bus to Miami Beach.

TIA

With one exception BeanE...she didn't take his life. My heart would be so totally broken and I just have to hold out hope that he is still with us. God, please let this baby be safe in a loving couples arms and let us find him soon. In Jesus name, Amen
 
See then I try searching and I read this.....

"It has been determined that Elizabeth purchased a Greyhound bus ticket to Miami Florida on December 27, 2009. She did not have Gabriel with her when she boarded the bus."
http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/?p=2422

Where did the Ft. Lauderdale info come from in the first place anyone know?


So Greyhound it is.

Quoting myself but....

Right....now the next thing is it Miami or Ft. Lauderdale like NG said last night?
Do we know for sure where she was going that site says Miami!
Is the ft. lauderdale info found anywhere else online.

going to search brb

I googled it and came up with momtectives timeline from thread two! lol going to look for more info.
 
Let's say it is rage fueled...how and why does she control this rage on almost half way across the country, likely with the baby crying for TPS and Jack, her fighting driving fatigue and road stress and unmedicated. Why not just kill him, chuck the body in the dumpster and as she supposedly told the Smiths, "Keep running forever?"
We know, although we don't know how we know, that he was alive in San Antonio. If this was rage, he wouldn't have lived that long. Maybe the Smiths, feeling that Social Services were incompetent, Logan a bad choice and EJ on the verge of murder, used their skills to set up a sale. The thought of money may have tempered her rage enough to get him across the country alive. The Smiths may either have done this to help them get around the Logan as father issue, or they may have felt it was the only way to "save" Gabriel. It seems to me that the Smith's are really committed to whatever their part in this is, to the point of seeming like martyrs. Whatever they have done, they felt it was right. Which is a terrifying mindset. We don't know if they might have set it up to get Gabe into a different state or into MX, where they can pick him up once the heat is off.
 
Yes but for some reason the Smiths seem to want people to think he might be there. :waitasec:

That's the one reason I might change my mind about Gabriel being in Mexico!

Per the cell phone, I'm a bit confused on what they know from that - I guess it is alsopossible Elizabeth's cell phone was with someone else for a while? And/or she could have removed the battery so it wouldn't ping at any point so she could have gone somewhere we don't know. I guess inquiring minds would hope to know all that LE/FBI knows.

I agree with whoever said Victoria could be a red herring. I don't think it would be too difficult to have some of those set-up ahead of time - much more difficult to disentangle than set-up, I think. And, that is probably a known trick used in networks who are trying to hide others, e.g., from abuse.
 
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