17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

LiveLaughLuv · May 4, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
That works both ways. The assault stopped after the sound of the gun, therefore if it was GZ screaming, he had no reason to continue screaming.

Spin it any way you like it..but it doesn't seem to coincide with the evidence as the investigator also states...

Everyone who supports GZ and his actions/behaviors will spin it all to support him, as I support the victim..

but my support on the victim is more in line with what evidence was realeased so far...I have a great sense of right and wrong and I find GZ's actions/behaviors totally in the wrong..

He's the adult who should have known better..but his aggressive tendencies, his propensity for violence, makes me believe GZ was the aggressor for if he was that fightened, he wouldn't have left his vehicle...common sense goes a looooong way...

LambChop · May 4, 2012

rossva said:
Perhaps he was "in shock"?

I think that EMT would have immediately checked for that with a wound on his head, don't you. He appears confident as if he knows he's going home after his interview. I think him willingly giving a statement to LE without benefit of an attorney proves it. jmo

Kimberlyd125 · May 4, 2012

LambChop said:
Oh, so it's a civil rights thing that makes him suspicious. It's not like some people in this country have a history of denying people their civil rights or anything, right? Tough job but someone has to do it. I don't think Mr. Crump has to "make up" stories to get his camera time. There are plenty out there and we all know it. jmo

BBM - Nope. That's not what I said AT ALL.

Kimberlyd125 said:
I don't find him very credible. I think he gets really caught up in the civil rights activist stuff and is loving the camera time.

I think he would have a lot to gain by swaying a statement.

I have read several things that are hinky to me about him.

Just following the case, I get a real weird vibe from the man.

JMO

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
I'll add my two cents...the constant, Link please? IS driving me nuts...the tit for tat is getting real old.

I think the reason you see a lot of link requests is because there is a lot of inaccurate information being spread. The WS way of challenging inaccurate information is to request a link.

LiveLaughLuv said:
Then I see how some are trying to show TM, the only victim here in an unfavorable light for whatever reason..

Respectfully, we do not know that TM was the only victim. Some of us consider the possibility that GZ was a victim of assault, and had to use his gun in self defense. If that proves to be true, then GZ is the victim.

LiveLaughLuv said:
This is a crime victims site..we are advocates for victims of crimes, we never put the victim down as if it's their fault..I had to leave this site yesterday for fear of getting myself timed out or banned.

I think the moderators have been clear that both sides can be discussed. I understand the emotion in this case and I have tried to phrase my posts as to not offend anyone. I understand some (on both sides) like to stir up the pot, but I think they have been delt with by the moderators appropriately.

LiveLaughLuv said:
It's disgusting what's being said about TM and most is unfounded...If you have never been in this position, try putting yourself there.

Feel free to call anyone out on what you feel is unfounded. You can also request a link.

LiveLaughLuv said:
I've been there, my brother was gunned down and killed, left to die in the street like some rabid animal...never getting justice for him is my lifes venture. I've tried and tired but being a cold case 29 years in the making, I want justice for my only brother and never did nor will I ever get justice.

Im sorry to hear about your brother.

Just K · May 4, 2012

Emeralgem said:
BBM... We do know he was a bouncer and I do know bouncers are known for working out with weights but do we know he worked out to be a fact? Since the beginning I have wondered IF he worked out on a regular basis and was on steroids or perhaps had taken steroids in the past?JMHO

Sorry to take so long replying...desktop died...working on notebook...small screen...no docs saved here...

He mentions in his "About Me" Florida shoutouts:
His gym or club...something makes me believe that was a gym

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

grammieto5 said:
There are only two things KNOWN as FACT 1) Trayvon was murdered, and 2) GZ is responsible.

I certainly do not know for a fact that TM was murdered. Killed - yes, murdered - to be determined.

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

pcrum12 said:
You know IMO there is another side to that -- I don't think he necessarily wants this to go to trial -- IMO all they wanted was an ARREST. Which if I understand correctly, opens the door to civil liability. They also don't want a SYG hearing. What they want is a plea. :moo::moo::moo:

Interesting. Part of me thinks Crump wants GZ to WIN the SYG hearing. IMO, IF it is proven that the statement Crump provided from the girlfriend was coerced, it could be career ending, possible disbarrment. If GZ wins the SYG hearing, I see the LA Riots, but nationally, and my own opinion is that Crump may not be opposed to that.

Personally, I am starting to think I would rather this go to trial, so all the facts can be brought to light.

rossva · May 4, 2012

BBM I think that fact alone points to evidence of a concussion, perhaps even brain damage. I know if I had just shot and killed some one under ANY circumstances no way in heck, in a normal state of mind, I certainly wouldn't talk to LE with out an attorney.

LambChop said:
I think that EMT would have immediately checked for that with a wound on his head, don't you. He appears confident as if he knows he's going home after his interview. I think him willingly giving a statement to LE without benefit of an attorney proves it. jmo

daisy7 · May 4, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
Interesting. Part of me thinks Crump wants GZ to WIN the SYG hearing. IMO, IF it is proven that the statement Crump provided from the girlfriend was coerced, it could be career ending, possible disbarrment. If GZ wins the SYG hearing, I see the LA Riots, but nationally, and my own opinion is that Crump may not be opposed to that.

Personally, I am starting to think I would rather this go to trial, so all the facts can be brought to light.

Respectfully, BBM.

I am behind and catching up. Is there a reason to believe that the GF's statement was coerced? it was a sworn statement she made, IIRC.

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

grammieto5 said:
Spin it any way you want, I believe Trayvon was murdered.

LiveLaughLuv said:
Spin it any way you like it..but it doesn't seem to coincide with the evidence as the investigator also states...

Everyone who supports GZ and his actions/behaviors will spin it all to support him, as I support the victim..

but my support on the victim is more in line with what evidence was realeased so far...I have a great sense of right and wrong and I find GZ's actions/behaviors totally in the wrong..

He's the adult who should have known better..but his aggressive tendencies, his propensity for violence, makes me believe GZ was the aggressor for if he was that fightened, he wouldn't have left his vehicle...common sense goes a looooong way...

No spinning here. We just interperet the evidence differently. I can respect that.

I think if you asked any poster here, they would say that they have a great sense of right and wrong. I feel I have a great sense of right and wrong, and we disagree, so one of us is right and one of us is wrong.

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
I believe that never happened..how could TM circle his car (3times) and get to where he was shot dead in a matter of seconds?

This is why we ask for links. So, can you please provide a link that says he circled his truck 3 TIMES as you have stated in your post?

LiveLaughLuv · May 4, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
I think the reason you see a lot of link requests is because there is a lot of inaccurate information being spread. The WS way of challenging inaccurate information is to request a link.

Respectfully, we do not know that TM was the only victim. Some of us consider the possibility that GZ was a victim of assault, and had to use his gun in self defense. If that proves to be true, then GZ is the victim.

I think the moderators have been clear that both sides can be discussed. I understand the emotion in this case and I have tried to phrase my posts as to not offend anyone. I understand some (on both sides) like to stir up the pot, but I think they have been delt with by the moderators appropriately.

Feel free to call anyone out on what you feel is unfounded. You can also request a link.

Im sorry to hear about your brother.

BBM

Thank you...

Until, when and IF GZ gets his SYG defense, TM IS THE ONLY VICTIM...

So, to have the victim be so condemned by a few, is really off the mark..

If this wasn't a crime victims advocates board, then to talk dispargaingly about the victim would be viewed as okay..but since this is not a free for all, many might want to be alot more empathetic towards the victim and his family..

I truly feel appalled and hurt at the way some speak..makes me wonder why they choose this site and not a site that is favorable to the defendant...:banghead:

LambChop · May 4, 2012

rossva said:
BBM I think that fact alone points to evidence of a concussion, perhaps even brain damage. I know if I had just shot and killed some one under ANY circumstances no way in heck, in a normal state of mind, I certainly wouldn't talk to LE with out an attorney.

I don't believe MOM ever mentioned brain damage, nor concussion and he had the medical report. jmo

JBean · May 4, 2012

JBean said:
It's that time!
Might want to start about branching out into topic specific discussion.
The general discussion threads will be closed for good today.
You have an entire forum and you can spread out and discuss specific topics instead of just threads of general discussion that become locked away and unbumpable.

There is a sticky thread for questions about rules and such so feel free to ask any questions you may have there.

The threads will be moderated at first meaning they will not be visible to the general membership. As mods are able to review- they will be approved if appropriate and made available.

As always please stay on topic of the thread you are in when posting.

Thanks all.

bumping
Please break out the discussion everyone. thanks.

Phoenixfla · May 4, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
BBM

Thank you...

Until, when and IF GZ gets his SYG defense, TM IS THE ONLY VICTIM...

So, to have the victim be so condemned by a few, is really off the mark..

If this wasn't a crime victims advocates board, then to talk dispargaingly about the victim would be viewed as okay..but since this is not a free for all, many might want to be alot more empathetic towards the victim and his family..

I truly feel appalled and hurt at the way some speak..makes me wonder why they choose this site and not a site that is favorable to the defendant...:banghead:

The reason I like to discuss it here is because of the heavy moderation (THANK YOU MODS!) and them not allowing either side to run roughshod over the other side. I come here for the opinion of others I do not agree with. I want to hear both sides of the case, not just one side, like the media has protrayed (IMO). I have no interest in discussing the case with people I am in total agreement with.

JBean · May 4, 2012

If ya can't link it ya can't post it.
period.
The "I know something you don't know but I can't tell you" does not have a place on the board.
please.

From da rules:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798"]Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

>>Additionally,please don't drop hints or post on the board that you know something or are privy to inside information but you won't or can't post it.
If you can't post it, don't.<<

saguaro · May 4, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
..

I truly feel appalled and hurt at the way some speak..makes me wonder why they choose this site and not a site that is favorable to the defendant...:banghead:

I thought this forum was open for discussions on this case. Some of us aren't as quick to come to conclusions as others.

:moo:

Almost to 100 posts.

LOL!

Just K · May 4, 2012

pcrum12 said:
BBM: BINGO! In my Opinion, GZ WAS devastated. But that doesn't mean it wasn't self defense.

Based on his actions in the minutes, hours and days after the shooting, I'd have to disagree as to GZ being "devistated."

He had the composure to:
Put his gun back in his holster
Get his cellphone out
Make a call
Ask a neighbor to call his wife.
Told MC & her roommate to, "Call 911."
Claim self Defense to the one of the first officer on the scene
Tell the police some pretty elaborate story
Walk casually out of the police car and into the police station

Start a few websites to garner support and money.
Quit his job...and go there and clear out his personal stuff
Show no remorse for killing another human being...simply say, "I'm sorry for your loss."

Anyone else want to add to the list of things GZ did that suggest that he was not devastated.

pcrum12 · May 4, 2012

LambChop said:
I think Mr.Crump wants justice. That is all. I just noticed if you take the p off your hat and you add it after the m....... Isn't that ironic???? jmp

Lol -- now that is funny.

LambChop · May 4, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
BBM

Thank you...

Until, when and IF GZ gets his SYG defense, TM IS THE ONLY VICTIM...

So, to have the victim be so condemned by a few, is really off the mark..

If this wasn't a crime victims advocates board, then to talk dispargaingly about the victim would be viewed as okay..but since this is not a free for all, many might want to be alot more empathetic towards the victim and his family..

I truly feel appalled and hurt at the way some speak..makes me wonder why they choose this site and not a site that is favorable to the defendant...:banghead:

I would not be surprised that we find out that both TM and GZ felt threatened at some point which is why there was a fight. GZ was the only one with a gun. But if GZ felt a threat he should have used better judgment, stayed in the car and let LE handle it. This is NOT a case where GZ was pursued. If GZ felt TM was up to no good he never would have turned his back on him and never would have pursued him in the first place. It's common sense and it was what he was told he should do under numerous situations.

Why did GZ follow TM when he knew there was only one exit, out the back gate. What motivated him to follow? Not that it's not against the law. That is not an answer. Why would someone do it? What is the point with LE on their way? What was GZ thinking???? jmo

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