OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #4

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doublestop said:
Thanks. The original news stories said the dog was barely alive, so apparently it did have some ill effects from being in the truck for some length of time.

In October it might not have had too many heat issues, but certainly lack of food and water would be an issue. I wonder why he wouldn't break into the chips bag.

Does anyone have a link to the photos of the truck interior?

Thanks.
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The original news reports did say that the dog was barely alive due to starvation, and that it had been living on it's own feces as food. Which was why there was no feces in the truck. However, I am completely perplexed as to how a starving dog would choose it's own feces over, say, a nice bag of chips.
Sure, lots of dogs eat poop.....but not usually when they're hungry and there's an alternate food source. Coprophagia is common, and maybe she was 'cleaning up' her confined area or just a poop eater to start with- but it doesn't explain ignoring a bag of chips. Not to mention the fact that puppies lose weight at a very rapid pace when starved. After a couple of days without food....there would be no more pooping to be had, kwim?

They also overheat very quickly (puppies in particular) and the added stress of being left alone for an extended period of time would likely make her whine/cry/bark etc. Which all rapidly dehydrates a dog.
While I agree that it might have been cool enough that 1st day....it was in the mid to upper 80's the next.

I think most of us know how quickly that will heat up an enclosed vehicle.

Also, as far as I know there are no pics of the dog immediately after being found. Does anyone have any? No mention of it being brought to a vet or anything like that. Just pictures before the disappearence (looks like a healthy little pup.)

What I can't understand is....why would that be lied about?
 
Oriah said:
The original news reports did say that the dog was barely alive due to starvation, and that it had been living on it's own feces as food. Which was why there was no feces in the truck. However, I am completely perplexed as to how a starving dog would choose it's own feces over, say, a nice bag of chips.
Sure, lots of dogs eat poop.....but not usually when they're hungry and there's an alternate food source. Coprophagia is common, and maybe she was 'cleaning up' her confined area or just a poop eater to start with- but it doesn't explain ignoring a bag of chips. Not to mention the fact that puppies lose weight at a very rapid pace when starved. After a couple of days without food....there would be no more pooping to be had, kwim?

They also overheat very quickly (puppies in particular) and the added stress of being left alone for an extended period of time would likely make her whine/cry/bark etc. Which all rapidly dehydrates a dog.
While I agree that it might have been cool enough that 1st day....it was in the mid to upper 80's the next.

I think most of us know how quickly that will heat up an enclosed vehicle.

Also, as far as I know there are no pics of the dog immediately after being found. Does anyone have any? No mention of it being brought to a vet or anything like that. Just pictures before the disappearence (looks like a healthy little pup.)

What I can't understand is....why would that be lied about?
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[BBM]

It wouldn't necessarily be a matter of lying; it could be an example of less-than-astute assumptions made by LE.
 
wfgodot said:
[/B]

[BBM]

It wouldn't necessarily be a matter of lying; it could be an example of less-than-astute assumptions made by LE.
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I agree.
However, wouldn't they even wonder about, say a lot of paperwork laying around that isn't torn up, peed or pooped on, or in general destroyed by a scrabbling dog who was bound to be frantic after 8 days?

Mine would have shredded the rubber molding around windows, doors, etc. Paper work would be completely torn up. Urine stains would be everywhere. Pawprints from feces and urine would be everywhere. the windows would be steamed up and nose smears would be all over them.
I mean- my dogs are all extremely well trained....but they would get frantic after 24 hours. And my dogs are very accustomed to being in vehicles for extended periods of time.

Makes no sense to me!
 
Sorry I am coming in a little late here tonight. As far as the dog goes, I know that the people who found the truck on the mountain thought that it was in pretty bad shape. They kept it for a few days before they met up with Starlet to give it to her. The guy that watched the dog became pretty attached to her in that time. Anyways, I will call tomorrow and ask him what shape the truck was in. I know when I was out there in May the truck was in pretty good shape, but Colton had already cleaned it out. I am not sure, but I would think that the residual stink would still be lingering. But then again, if the dog didn't have anyway to eat (I know there was a soft sided cooler on the floor that she was getting water from) then it might not poop. The only way I can make it fit in my head logistically is if the dog was just too small to reach the dash where the chips were. She is a pretty small dog. Think how tortureous that would be, starving and food was just out of reach. It is kinda hard to tell in the pictures, it looks like a lot of stuff got shuffled around the first night, so who knows what was where the next day when they took the pictures.

The windows of the truck were rolled up, and yes they broke them to get in, with concern for the dog. They knew that they had been up on the 8th, and then the truck being found, they assumed the dog/truck had been there the whole time.

Another thought (which I really don't need any more than I already have) is that Bobby's set of keys have not been found. Despite news reports stating the keys were found in the ignition....I guess if someone was a dog lover they could bring the dog food if they had Bobby's keys. including Bobby. I did think at one point that maybe the Jamison's were camping out in one of the numerous cabins that are up there, but the FBI did check the cabins out...and I am not sure Sherilyn could resist the temptation to spray paint somthing while she was there. I kinda feel like it was her calling card, for lack of a better term.

I know that they had looked at other properties, I wonder if she left her calling card at any of them. There were cans of spray paint in the back of the truck, and IIRC in the cab of the truck as well.

I guess what gets me is why not leave the window cracked for the dog? I ALWAYS crack my window. And Bobby had window flares on all 4 windows, so why wouldn't you...Its not like rain could get in.

And I also thought about this earlier. I know the weather was HOT on the 8th (80's), but I wonder if it would be cooler on the mountain because of the elevation. Oriah do you recall what the elevation is up there? And how much of a difference would that make in the temperature?

Sorry for the novel.
 
I tried to post this earlier, but the whole site seemed to have shut down. Anyway, I feel like the dog had been in the truck the whole time.

If it was just a small puppy/dog, maybe he just stayed on the floorboard, being unable to climb up on the seat. At least, there was some water down there and it may have been a little cooler out of the direct sunlight coming in through the window shield.

How do we know there was no dog food for the dog? He may have just eated it all up a day or two before he was found?
 
mtrooper said:
Sorry I am coming in a little late here tonight. As far as the dog goes, I know that the people who found the truck on the mountain thought that it was in pretty bad shape. They kept it for a few days before they met up with Starlet to give it to her. The guy that watched the dog became pretty attached to her in that time. Anyways, I will call tomorrow and ask him what shape the truck was in. I know when I was out there in May the truck was in pretty good shape, but Colton had already cleaned it out. I am not sure, but I would think that the residual stink would still be lingering. But then again, if the dog didn't have anyway to eat (I know there was a soft sided cooler on the floor that she was getting water from) then it might not poop. The only way I can make it fit in my head logistically is if the dog was just too small to reach the dash where the chips were. She is a pretty small dog. Think how tortureous that would be, starving and food was just out of reach. It is kinda hard to tell in the pictures, it looks like a lot of stuff got shuffled around the first night, so who knows what was where the next day when they took the pictures.

The windows of the truck were rolled up, and yes they broke them to get in, with concern for the dog. They knew that they had been up on the 8th, and then the truck being found, they assumed the dog/truck had been there the whole time.

Another thought (which I really don't need any more than I already have) is that Bobby's set of keys have not been found. Despite news reports stating the keys were found in the ignition....I guess if someone was a dog lover they could bring the dog food if they had Bobby's keys. including Bobby. I did think at one point that maybe the Jamison's were camping out in one of the numerous cabins that are up there, but the FBI did check the cabins out...and I am not sure Sherilyn could resist the temptation to spray paint somthing while she was there. I kinda feel like it was her calling card, for lack of a better term.

I know that they had looked at other properties, I wonder if she left her calling card at any of them. There were cans of spray paint in the back of the truck, and IIRC in the cab of the truck as well.

I guess what gets me is why not leave the window cracked for the dog? I ALWAYS crack my window. And Bobby had window flares on all 4 windows, so why wouldn't you...Its not like rain could get in.

And I also thought about this earlier. I know the weather was HOT on the 8th (80's), but I wonder if it would be cooler on the mountain because of the elevation. Oriah do you recall what the elevation is up there? And how much of a difference would that make in the temperature?

Sorry for the novel.
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Thanks mtrooper. Still stuck on the dog here. And the keys. Forgot to mention that as well as a couple of other issues I have with the pics from when the truck was found.

I've got a puppy right now (currently 17lbs) and I have a pretty big crew cab truck. I am sorely temped to lock the poor thing in there with a bag of cheese flavored popcorn on the dash, already opened, a bunch of paperwork, clothing, etc laying around, leave her there for a few days without feeding her, and see what happens.
I know she's small and up to the dash seems a long way, but that console is pretty wide and given all of the clothing etc...I compared and compared and it looks to me like even a tiny pup could get up from the floorboard to the seat to the console to the cupholders or wheel to the dash- if not straight fom the console to the dash.
(And before PETA gets all over me- don't worry- I would never. But I am sorely tempted.)

If Maisy was in pretty bad shape according to the people who found her- perhaps she was there for a few days- but not the entire time. Idk. Just a thought. Perhaps the Jamisons were up on the mountain, but not 'gone' the entire time, kwim?
I also thought about someone feeding her, possibly letting her out and then putting her back. Can't imagine what the motive for that would be (and why they wouldn't crack a window) but given the lack of keys- possible. For all we know someone took the Jamison's and did whatever...but is a dog lover. Or figured with all the rain it would be better to leave the windows closed. Stranger things have happened.

I'll go back and check the elevation for you, mtrooper. NOAA wil have the temp for coordinates in their archive somewhere.

ETA: if the people who found the dog, saw her through the truck windows....it seems to me she would have likely at least been up on the seat, not the floorboards....
 
Also- speaking of the spray paint. Still waiting on the info from the VIN. Vin assist, not liking it, lol.
 
According to Wikipedia -

the Shih Tzu stands no more than 26.7 cm (10 1/2 in.) at the withers and with an ideal weight of 4.5 to 7.3 kg (10 to 16 lbs).

Since the Jamison dog was described as a pup, it would be a lot smaller.
Then again, maybe it wasn't a full blooded one.
 
watcher9 said:
According to Wikipedia -

the Shih Tzu stands no more than 26.7 cm (10 1/2 in.) at the withers and with an ideal weight of 4.5 to 7.3 kg (10 to 16 lbs).

Since the Jamison dog was described as a pup, it would be a lot smaller.
Then again, maybe it wasn't a full blooded one.
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You can see a pic of the dog on their facebook page- under Photos, page 2 (Wall photos) 4th row down on the right. Pic of Madyson and the dog, dated July 29th 2009. So the dog would have been 10 weeks older than that at the time they went missing.

Don't want to link it because it's facebook.
 
mtrooper, the closest weather comparison I can get from NOAA for last year is 3 miles from the GPS location of the truck. Looks like at that elevation (1131 ft) there's about a 6-10 degree temp fluctuation.
I suppose it could be greater if the truck had been parked in the shade. But it doesn't appear to have been (unless it was moved.)

Granted, the coolness at night would have helped.
 
The only facebook link I could find for the Jamisons was the one searching for them. I didn't see a picture of the dog on it.
Can you give me a hint on the name?
 
little726 said:
Watcher, try this;

http://www.facebook.com/pages/FIND-THE-JAMISONS/124182170931194
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Thank you little. I never know what to do about posting facebook links.
On that page, click on Photos, then go to page 2 of photos. From there go to "Wall photos". Scroll down and you should be able to see the pic down towards the bottom.

I know she's a 'small' dog, but looks to me like she could make it from the console to the dash. And she doesn't look super young to me in that pic, which was taken 10 weeks earlier. Maybe 4-6 months. JMO, of course. I am no expert in Shih tzu's but I do have a chihuahua-type guy. He RIDES on my dash. He thinks he's a hood ornament. And I don't have to place him there.
 
Thanks.
It was the same site I had found before, but this time I kept searching and finally I found the beautiful picture of Madyson and her dog. This must have been just before she lost her front teeth.
It is a lot bigger dog than I had thought, especially if the picture was taken ten weeks earlier than their disappearance.
 
watcher9 said:
Thanks.
It was the same site I had found before, but this time I kept searching and finally I found the beautiful picture of Madyson and her dog. This must have been just before she lost her front teeth.
It is a lot bigger dog than I had thought, especially if the picture was taken ten weeks earlier than their disappearance.
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It is a beautiful picture, isn't it? She is a beautiful child.

You bring up another point I have been wondering about (trying to keep the timeline straight.) Do we have an actual date for when she knocked out her teeth?
I know it was said to be on the school playground, so I'm assuming school was in session. And I know she was in and out of school, and they were possibly homeschooling her? And clearly they were there when she had her hair dyed just a little bit before they went missing...but not in that last known pic.

I'd like to know the actual date.
 
Oriah said:
Thank you little. I never know what to do about posting facebook links.
On that page, click on Photos, then go to page 2 of photos. From there go to "Wall photos". Scroll down and you should be able to see the pic down towards the bottom.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You make it sound so easy to find. I should have just waited for your instructions, but we must have crossed in the unknown.

After little726 gave me a link, I actually went to a discussion/message page and read through a bunch before someone mentioned the picture of Madyson and the dog. Then I went back to the photos and started going through each album until I found it. The one that said Wall photos I had originally skipped over because Madyson looked so small.
 
Oriah said:
Thank you little. I never know what to do about posting facebook links.
On that page, click on Photos, then go to page 2 of photos. From there go to "Wall photos". Scroll down and you should be able to see the pic down towards the bottom.

I know she's a 'small' dog, but looks to me like she could make it from the console to the dash. And she doesn't look super young to me in that pic, which was taken 10 weeks earlier. Maybe 4-6 months. JMO, of course. I am no expert in Shih tzu's but I do have a chihuahua-type guy. He RIDES on my dash. He thinks he's a hood ornament. And I don't have to place him there.
Click to expand...

You can always link to social websites for the missing. You can paraphrase comments and provide links. You can not copy and paste. Nor can you link to anyone that has not been associated to the case. So you couldn't link the Jamison's neighbors or innocent family members.

HTH,

Salem
 
watcher9 said:
Thanks. You make it sound so easy to find. I should have just waited for your instructions, but we must have crossed in the unknown.

After little726 gave me a link, I actually went to a discussion/message page and read through a bunch before someone mentioned the picture of Madyson and the dog. Then I went back to the photos and started going through each album until I found it. The one that said Wall photos I had originally skipped over because Madyson looked so small.
Click to expand...

It's all good. ;) You found the pic.

I would've posted it here, but afraid it'll be huge and blow the margins....and really the only purpose is for the comparison on the size of the dog and whether or not people think it could and would get onto the dash of their truck and eat food that was there for 8 days. :)
 
Salem said:
You can always link to social websites for the missing. You can paraphrase comments and provide links. You can not copy and paste. Nor can you link to anyone that has not been associated to the case. So you couldn't link the Jamison's neighbors or innocent family members.

HTH,

Salem
Click to expand...

Thank you Salem- so clarification- you couldn't link a social website of a neighbor or any other innocent party. But we can discuss the persons who allegedly saw or found the truck, correct?

And I could have posted that picture of Madyson, correct? :waitasec:
 
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