Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

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The main problem I see, Unreals, is that your suppositions fly in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary. There are other threads where we debate back and forth as to whether we think someone is guilty or not. But, this is just so incredibly obvious. There is no conspiracy on earth that would set up a young girl to be killed, so that Joran could be bagged. I just don't believe that is possible. Further, were he innocent of even the Natalee case, he wouldn't have done so many things to make himself look guilty. That defies common sense. Innocent people do not behave as Joran has behaved for the last five years.

To add to Belinda's post, throughout all of this SF case, the only time that JVDS has ever once looked like a deer caught in the headlights, is the very moment he spotted that camera in the hallway. Oh he was framed alright, mouth open and slack-jawed, front and center in a gotcha kind of way.

There are people framed every day, but the odds JVDS has truly been framed have to be something like a million to one. JMHO. Any bookies out there?:D
 
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #13


From your post in the above link:

"I also counter the "fact" that Joran strangled Stephany with his own shirt with the previous "facts" that the murder weapon was a baseball bat, tennis racket or professional karate chop which broke her neck. All of these "facts" were not lost in translation, they came from the medical examiner or the chief of the investigation in Peru."

It is simply not true that you have not asked for links regarding the facts of this case, Unreals. It was just a day or so ago that you asked for (and received) a link to the Hotel Tac. And, no... I'm not going to chase down that link, like I just did above, to prove it. You've asked for (and received) many links from the posters of this forum. I stand by my opinion that you're taking advantage of the posters of this forum to do the research for your book.

I don't have (and won't have) any further questions of you.

Suzi........I guess that says it all......Good digging for the link re the baseball bat/tennis racket etc.

What a 'sleuth' you are........kudos to ya, gal.
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?


Why don't you just come out with it unreals? You have this scenario so you must have someone in mind when you say someone really wanted to get Joran for a crime that they think he got away with.

He may not be that stupid but he was probably that desperate. With Stephany being dead in his room he ran out of options and his stupidity was really acts of desperation. Many murderers become careless, that's how they get caught and many get caught by surveillance cams.
 
I still firmly and sincerely believe the guy in the striped green shirt sitting accross from SF MAY have some knowledge or even more. JMO He arrives at the table approx the same time as JVS and then again, he arrives from his little cubby hole/hallway right before they get up to leave. While she is cashing in her chips is when JVS gives him the high 5.

Possibly guy in the green striped shirt could be Erick Cabrera...he ended up coming in 3rd in the tournament:

"And, there may be a new witness: Another "friend of Joran's", Erick Cabrera Cabrera, who reportedly was present in the casino the day Joran and Stephany Flores played poker together."

Of course, this may have been another day when Joran and SF were together, not May 30.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/15/133534/559

Or it could be Elton Garcia:

"Reports vary about the last night. Some have Elton, Joran and Stephany playing poker together at an open table from 3:20 am, when she arrived at the casino alone, until 5:00 a.m. when Joran and Stephanie left together"

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/7/153936/3294


Here's a video of Elton Garcia. Not sure if he looks like the same guy as in the casino video...but they do both have long sideburns:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_-9kDHtONg&feature=related[/ame]

Just another conundrum!!
 
I'm sorry, I know none of this is funny in the least, however, they way you posted this and the fact that I just got home from work and am over tired, made me LOL. My dogs now KNOW that I'm not right.

Sorry, just the look on his face, he knows the gig is up. I wish there had been one of these for when Natalee went missing. Stephany would still be alive and probably playing poker in the casino right now.

I could look at this picture of JVDS all day and ROFLMAO at his thoughts when he spotted the camera......

"OH ............I knew I should'a put my Depends on......now I'm really in a mess !!"
 
Thanks, NN! From the translated link you provided:

... with 80 rooms. between simple, 'Premium Double, Vips with TV 21 - tv29 Flat Screen, Jacuzzi and shower himself...

It sounds as if only the premium rooms are equipped with a shower/bath.

It shows some pictures of a room with a bath and/or jacuzzi.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guiahostal.com%2Flima%2Fhotel_tac.htm&sl=es&tl=en

IIRC, Joran said in his confession that he was paying $50/nt. for his room...so I'd assume he had a shower.
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

I'm just not sure if you're saying that they put him in a position where he would be set up to kill someone...or that he did not kill her. Even if it was a set up where it was assumed that he would get angry and kill her, and he did, it makes him just as guilty (not that I believe this particular woman would be set up and sacrificied like this- across borders- methinks they would have picked a more nondescript victim if this was the case- not someone in a casino who has money and therefore is assumably of some means and known to people). And I am not naive, I know that people are set up in conspiracy plots and people do get killed- but there is usually a lot more politics and important people involved. Joran came from wealth and influence- a conspiracy, to me would have been plausible in a set up to protect him, not frame him. Okay, I'm thinking as I'm writing...Unless he's too much of a liability for Aruba and now that his protector is gone they decided to set him up to get rid of him...But, in any event, the physical evidence points to him committing the crime and whether he was set up to do so or not, he must be held responsible for taking a life. I hope my rambling made sense.
 
I'm just not sure if you're saying that they put him in a position where he would be set up to kill someone...or that he did not kill her. Even if it was a set up where it was assumed that he would get angry and kill her, and he did, it makes him just as guilty (not that I believe this particular woman would be set up and sacrificied like this- across borders- methinks they would have picked a more nondescript victim if this was the case- not someone in a casino who has money and therefore is assumably of some means and known to people). And I am not naive, I know that people are set up in conspiracy plots and people do get killed- but there is usually a lot more politics and important people involved. Joran came from wealth and influence- a conspiracy, to me would have been plausible in a set up to protect him, not frame him. Okay, I'm thinking as I'm writing...Unless he's too much of a liability for Aruba and now that his protector is gone they decided to set him up to get rid of him...But, in any event, the physical evidence points to him committing the crime and whether he was set up to do so or not, he must be held responsible for taking a life. I hope my rambling made sense.

Nosy.....Perfect sense to me.
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?
(Above bolding by smart blonde)....

I have to respectfully disagree with what I've 'bolded' above, because prisons (and Death Rows) are full of murderers that really are "that stupid", and that careless.

Many crimes simply are that cut and dry.
 
I think it makes perfect sense if you consider that Joran probably didn't go to the room with the intention of killing her. He isn't that stupid. He lost his cool for some reason and beat her to death. Everything flows from there. He couldn't figure out a way to get rid of her body after he had already killed her and so took off. There would be no reason for him to flee Peru in the manner in which he did, if he had no involvement in the murder. He was scheduled to be at things that he didn't show up at. So, clearly he was intending to stick around until he up and killed Stephany.

BBM. We have to keep reminding ourselves that Joran has a violent, uncontrollable temper. Think of throwing wine at Peter deVries, throwing water during lie detector session. I am sure there are many other situations that we don't know about. These were caught on video tape for us to see. We are supposed to ignore the case of him beating his brother till he almost died because it is just "rumor and speculation" but who would have videotaped that? Same with the dog and homeless man. But how many situations in our life are videotaped? The point is that he has a violent temper and whether the facts of the murder make sense or not (how did he clean up without a sink?) we have to remember that he just explodes and then has to figure out the rest afterwards.
 
BBM. We have to keep reminding ourselves that Joran has a violent, uncontrollable temper. Think of throwing wine at Peter deVries, throwing water during lie detector session. I am sure there are many other situations that we don't know about. These were caught on video tape for us to see. We are supposed to ignore the case of him beating his brother till he almost died because it is just "rumor and speculation" but who would have videotaped that? Same with the dog and homeless man. But how many situations in our life are videotaped? The point is that he has a violent temper and whether the facts of the murder make sense or not (how did he clean up without a sink?) we have to remember that he just explodes and then has to figure out the rest afterwards.

Yep, & I think that violent, uncontrollable temper is what's going to get him killed in prison. Unless, of course, his violent temper is only uncontrollable when he's dealing with women. It will be interesting to see if he can control it when it's beneficial to him.
 
Thanks Beatrice for the update on the Lion club.....didn't know that at all.

As for the last line posted regarding......(why would he say they don't want to leave with him???) or could this be just a mix up in the translation....

Where would he be taking them.......for them not wanting to leave with him.
[/U][/I]

The Lion's Club seems to have a clandestine reputation.

Seems to me, certain powerful, wealthy men on the island of Aruba knew what it was all about. Joran hung around a group of guys...Most have left Aruba with their wealthy, powerful fathers and families.

Joran could not get girls to now leave the nightclub, casino with him to go elsewhere that was private.
 
This video of JVDS in prison in Aruba in 2005 (previously posted by Carrington) contains two interesting comments by the prison director, who knew JVDS as a boy.

(1) He says he's not too surprised that Joran is in prison, since the director knew that he gets very angry when he doesn't get his way, saying from way back "he's a very angry person".

Now, if the prison director knew this from "way back", surely Joran's parents were well aware of it also. It's really a shame that his parents didn't get him treatment in his youth, resulting in the deaths of two beautiful young women.


(2) In the Aruban prison, he fought with the police when he was first jailed but then stopped after the police "really roughed him up". But, he also got in a fight with another prisoner, kicking him repeatedly in the same spot. Joran lost the fight when the smaller guy punched him in the eye!

Looks like he may have a rough time when put in the 'general population'. Also, maybe some of SF's injuries and bruises were caused by kicking.


http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/inside-look-at-aruba-prison/6563zyf

MOO
 
How could he have given these items to the cabbie ... the shirt pictured here is the same as he was wearing when caught......
OR Did joran just give him the 'shirt right off his back'......pardon me for leaving a little humor here......LOL

Hi Sanny. This is the shirt he wore when he left Tac for the final time. Collared and striped, red. Blood stain on it, later identified as SFR's blood. According to ROL, all belongings in photo given to cab driver.

http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/71346/2010/06/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloot#image-load

This is footage of VDS when arrested in Chile. Pause at 11 seconds. I can't see the collar turned in. Are the stripes hidden by his hooded sweatshirt?
Do you have another photo or link where I can more clearly see him wearing the striped collared shirt at his arrest?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/03/peru.murder.case/index.html

Why not the shirt off his back, the watch off his wrist? Young adult - grab another t-shirt from knapsack. Not as if riding around, on the lam, shirtless.
 
I looked at a few price compatible hotels in the area of the Tac.
Even the ones advertised for $40 had showers.
Reviews of the cheaper hotels, complaints were more geared to no hot water.
TVs, Internet, breakfast all seem standard. Maid service not reliable.

Joran was flush with cash when he arrived and hot on the trail of more. I'm surprised he picked the Tac, unless it was listed as a place to stay on the poker tour and booked far in advance.
One or more of the other players was staying there also if I remember correctly.
IMO
 
On Dr Lillian Glass’ blog she made reference to the fact that Joran mentioned in a police report that he had beaten his brother..

http://drlillianglassbodylanguagebl...-for-joran-while-cutting-him-out-of-her-life/

Anita Van der Sloot’s Conflicting Body Language Indicates Anger at Joran, Victim Like Helplessness, And Denial, As She Continues To Make Excuses For Joran While Cutting Him Out of Her Life

“There is no doubt that Anita did know that Joran had some type of psychological problem as he was apparently seeing a therapist in his teen years. Apparently he was sent to a therapist by his parents. According to an interview which Joran gave to the Aruban police when he was a teen, given after Natalie’s was found missing, Joran admitted he had been sent to a psychiatrist for stealing 50 euros from his father and for his violence towards his brother”

The quote she is talking about is from Joran’s police statement from 06/10/05 where he states “To you question as to whether I am under treatment from a doctor, I answer you that I am not. I am being treated by a dentist because I have toothache. I am also under treatment of a psychologist. This because I felt bad about the fact that the girl had gone missing. Before the girl went missing I was also under treatment of a psychologist. This was because I had taken 50 euro's from my dad and also took money from my mother and I used my brothers mobile phone without asking for permission and after that I had broken the chip from his mobile phone. I also once fought with my brother in Miami but we are good friends now. My brother is fifteen (15) years old and his name is "Valentijn". He is the one I would like to talk to.”

Here is a blog with a list of references to Joran’s past violent behavior a lot of it from the police statements:
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2008/01/you-be-judge.html

At C.3. on the blog above is a reference to the 'man being thrown from a bridge' incident. It is from SANDER GOTTENBOS - WITNESS STATEMENT - 06/16/05
 
LIMA, Peru, June 26, 2010
Judge: Van der Sloot Confession Stands
Rejects Dutchman's Claim That Admission Violated His Rights; He's Charged With Killing Stephany Flores in His Lima Hotel Room


(CBS/AP) A Peruvian judge on Friday denied a defense motion to void the confession of Joran van der Sloot in the slaying of Stephany Flores.

The motion claimed the confession should be dismissed because the attorney representing van der Sloot at the time was state-appointed.

Superior Court Judge Wilder Casique rejected the habeas corpus move made on behalf of Van der Sloot, who is jailed pending trial on charges of first-degree murder and robbery in the May 30 death in his Lima hotel room of 21-year-old Peruvian business student Stephany Flores. He met her while playing poker in a casino.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6620493.shtml


I guess Peru isn't Aruba, eh...he can't BS these officials as he and his father did in Aruba. He is going down!...JMHO



Justice for Stephany and Natalee
 
But that's just it- he looks TOO guilty. Five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance. A dead body left behind in a room registered in his name. A security camera right outside his room, catching the victim and Joran going in, and only him leaving. Few crimes are that cut and dry. Few murderers are that stupid.

If someone really, really wanted to get Joran, and finally punish him for a crime they think he commited and got away with, and wished for a perfect scenario, could Joran possibly have done a better job of granting their wish?

Joran has anger issues. I don't believe he planned on killing Stephany but he just flew off in a fit of rage. The whole crime scene is a testament to that. He wasn't thinking when the crime happened. It was impulsive. IMO, I'd believe aliens attacked her before I would believe that someone killed an innocent girl just to set up Joran. That theory is illogical and makes no sense to me.
 
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