And he did. Himself by his lies! If the girl was alive when he left her
why frame himself unless to cover somebody or something else? He
can still milk things for money later!
Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20
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And he did. Himself by his lies! If the girl was alive when he left her
why frame himself unless to cover somebody or something else? He
can still milk things for money later!
The odds are vastly different in poker with n-number of players x n-rounds etc.. Google /poker odds/. I wont get into what I think you father
taught on that ocassion.
and every appeal may be adding years. He is still gambling!
Perhaps Steph knew nothing about any of this or didnt connect it - then
wham! and it destroys he bankrolling him and he blows ? Especially if he had just lost $25k in the previous days (hard won extortion money).
Now he is facing bankruptcy stuck in Peru being chased by the FBI for
extortion ... etc etc.
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Everyone Please,
This thread is about Joran's confession to mudering Stephany Ramirez not about Beth Holloway and your opinion of her or Natalee's case.
Please stay on topic. There is no need to bring up the Holloway investigation in this thread unless it connects directly to this case.
Also do not insult the Holloway family. They did not murder Natalee.
As a poster correctly pointed out there is no need to rehash 5 years of the Holloway case on this thread. That's not what we are discussing.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com
This thread is about Joran's confession to mudering Stephany Ramirez not about Beth Holloway and your opinion of her or Natalee's case.
Please stay on topic. There is no need to bring up the Holloway investigation in this thread unless it connects directly to this case.
Also do not insult the Holloway family. They did not murder Natalee.
As a poster correctly pointed out there is no need to rehash 5 years of the Holloway case on this thread. That's not what we are discussing.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com
nervous_nellie
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Valentin is graduating this year ( 2010-/2011) from Emerson in Boston so that makes him approx 20 ( think his b/d is early in the year) and Joran is about to be 23. Remembering in his declaration in the NH case Joran wanted to talk to his brother who was 15 at the time, that would mean Valentin was born in 1990.
I have seen an article where it says the Sloots moved to Aruba when JVDS was 2, but this wouldn't be true unless Anita returned to NL for Val's birth....which may be so, I just don't see it, or it isn't specifically mentioned anywhere= probably because it isn't relevant, but in this same article ( not in the amended version online but the original ) it stated Paul was involved in a 20 year battle to keep a highway from bring developed through his ancestral home grounds ( forget the exact name, in Boxtel ) and I shouldn't assume but that would have ended in 1993, when Joran was 6.
Yet another version is told by Joran when he said he felt alone and alienated on his first day of kindergarten when he was the only child speaking Dutch.
Maybe this is his recollection only because even in Aruba there would have been Dutch children in his class- and if he has an August birthday he could have been younger or one of the youngest in his class- so maybe he turned 5 and immediately enrolled that year, which would be 1992- if not, 1993 which is the year Paul won his case in Boxtel, and would make more sense then the family moving to Aruba before then.
I did look back and remember recollections of past girlfriends of Joran when he was 14/15 and this was in Aruba. So I gather the info from the Biography.com article must be a mistranslation or inaccurate to state the family moved to Aruba when JVDS was 16 unless they kept two residences, one in the NL. Which is not a stretch, I suppose.
Ok, thanks for reading the rambling...
FLNY
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something tells me we will be onto this subject soon so here's a snippet from wiki:
Familial searching
Familial searching is the use of family members' DNA to identify a closely related suspect in jurisdictions where large DNA databases exist, but no exact match has been found. The first successful use of the practice was in a UK case where a man was convicted of manslaughter when he threw a brick stained with his own blood into a moving car. Police could not get an exact match to the UK's DNA database because the man had no criminal convictions, but police implicated him using a close relative's DNA.[13]
[edit] Surreptitious DNA collecting
Police forces may collect DNA samples without the suspects' knowledge, and use it as evidence. Legality of this mode of proceeding has been questioned in Australia.
In the United States, it has been accepted, courts often claiming that there was no expectation of privacy, citing California v. Greenwood (1985), during which the Supreme Court held that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure of garbage left for collection outside the curtilage of a home. Critics of this practice underline the fact that this analogy ignores that "most people have no idea that they risk surrendering their genetic identity to the police by, for instance, failing to destroy a used coffee cup. Moreover, even if they do realize it, there is no way to avoid abandoning one’s DNA in public." [14]
My nightmare is that the DNA test will show Paulus Van der Sloot was in Peru.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling[/ame]
Familial searching
Familial searching is the use of family members' DNA to identify a closely related suspect in jurisdictions where large DNA databases exist, but no exact match has been found. The first successful use of the practice was in a UK case where a man was convicted of manslaughter when he threw a brick stained with his own blood into a moving car. Police could not get an exact match to the UK's DNA database because the man had no criminal convictions, but police implicated him using a close relative's DNA.[13]
[edit] Surreptitious DNA collecting
Police forces may collect DNA samples without the suspects' knowledge, and use it as evidence. Legality of this mode of proceeding has been questioned in Australia.
In the United States, it has been accepted, courts often claiming that there was no expectation of privacy, citing California v. Greenwood (1985), during which the Supreme Court held that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure of garbage left for collection outside the curtilage of a home. Critics of this practice underline the fact that this analogy ignores that "most people have no idea that they risk surrendering their genetic identity to the police by, for instance, failing to destroy a used coffee cup. Moreover, even if they do realize it, there is no way to avoid abandoning one’s DNA in public." [14]
My nightmare is that the DNA test will show Paulus Van der Sloot was in Peru.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling[/ame]
Nova
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Perhaps. But I've spent most of my adult life working in midtown Manhattan and downtown L.A. I've had more encounters with aggressive panhandlers, homeless drug addicts and lunatics-at-large (not mutually exclusive categories, of course) than I could possibly recount.
I am within an inch of JVDS' size. In all those encounters, however unpleasant, I never once had occasion to lay hands on anyone, much less throw anyone off a bridge. (A dangerous stunt, however, low the bridge.)
This isn't to say there couldn't have been unique circumstances in the "bridge incident" that might legally justify JVDS' reported conduct. But the incomplete and badly translated account we have falls short of that justification. "Tried to start a fight with..." can have a range of meanings, many of which do not justify bodily assault.
So of course you are right that this alleged incident doesn't prove JVDS a psychopath. At the same time, it doesn't prove him a choir boy either.
Some ATM's/banks allow higher limits depending on the income or money one has coming in. I think with all the interviews for cash and all the money Joran scored off people on the Internet, and if he banked the money it would have been quite substantial (if he didn't immediately gamble it all), so that he could have a higher limit. JMHO.
Nova
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AFAIK, there is no evidence JVDS and the victim were colluding. (And I know you aren't suggesting there is.)
But hypothetically, if they were, how does this mitigate the crime of murder? Since when does killing an accomplice mitigate the murder? A defense attorney might use the info in a "smear the victim" sort of defense, but I don't know of a legal concept where killing an accomplice is a mitigating factor. Do you?
nervous_nellie
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the "colluding" if thats what they were up to would only for me in my mind suggest another reason as to what may have caused the argument... or maybe he had been cheating and she was going to tell someone?? who knows, none of it supports killing a person as a result. if there is info on jvds laptop that could prove that he had been cheating would it change any of his charges? we know that it changes things if a person is robbed & murdered - but what about a place(theft not robbery)anyone?
hollyblue
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Just catching up, but if you could translate the last paragraph---or just give a gist of what it says, I'd truly appreciate it. ty
hollyblue
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Respectively snipped from Selena:
I wonder what happened if that was the case. And I wonder whose account he was taking that money from. Perhaps at that point both his and Stephany's accounts were frozen so he couldn't get any money and couldn't get his stuff back?
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Good point and good possibility.
I wonder what happened if that was the case. And I wonder whose account he was taking that money from. Perhaps at that point both his and Stephany's accounts were frozen so he couldn't get any money and couldn't get his stuff back?
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Good point and good possibility.
Thanks to you & the other posters who got me to the right video.
One of his poker accounts were frozen, Party Poker? or maybe Pokerstars, someone on a poker board posted this but I don't have the link but can get it, to the tune of $8700.00, may have been earlier this year, not sure, but this would have prompted him to look for more money in other places- he may have been banned on that site- and I know he stated he had a gambling debt ( part of declaration where he says Uri Geller gave him $25,000 for an interview, disputed by Geller ) for $6,000 so maybe part of the money he actually collected from the sting went to either the poker site ( ? to pay off the bad debt ?) or to a house account at a casino in Aruba where he owed money.
this would leave him with much less than $25,000 for traveling as part of the extortion monies were paid in cash ( $10,000) and the rest was wired.
I have to think the account into which the additional $15,000 was wired was frozen.
...and he may have had Stephany's cash and deposited it into one of his accounts the same day to find out he was locked out when he tried to cash it out. I doubt if he got her pin # but that hasn't come up yet...
I looked up ATM limits an found this on a travel board although JVDS may not have had access to this bank-
" in Peru there is a Peruvian bank called BCP, which allow all the credit cards around the world, the maximum ammount of money for cash is 400.00 Dollars a day..."
that and an ATM called GlobalNET from Interbank, accessible from drugstores and other travel friendly locations.
so many options...
No evidence that we know of but Peliman ( this site ) posted an article from a poker board and I posted a few comments because on those sites where the game ( LAPT ) is being discussed a thread started immediately and the question of collusion came up.
I suppose this is in light of Garcia and JVDS both having played poker with Stephany in Peru, Garcia losing money to Stephany, Stephany winning the next day/ morning after at the same casino, and then accompanying Joran back to his hostel.
I'm no poker expert so I can't say how plausible this is or isn't. there is the question of whether or not she appeared to not know him purposely on the casino tape when she met him two days prior and if she passed him a chip in her handshake.
Not a lot to go on...
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