AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #12

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After listening to the show, my heart fell.
I think our Angel Gabriel is gone.
The full text to Logan was very detailed...........as one speaker said.
I am beginning to think it did happen, similiar to that.
Like kc, throw away baby and go party!! New life! New ID. New state.........
If he was sold EJ would have money and could tell where he is.
This all back fired on the Smith's who thought they had Gabriel without any hitches.
$500. could be just a couple 'tricks'...........
The Smith's have to pretend there is hope.........to throw LE off of them.
His tiny body may never be found.......if EJ threw him away, it's to late.
They threw everyone off with a live baby.
Smith's & Eliz is very VAGUE about everything!
 
mamaeb said:
Ok this maybe weird and not what Elizabeth did, but I was a single mom... and when I had extra money and the ability to have time alone I loved to go get my hair, nails, massage....although it was very rare when I got the chance. Maybe she did that then? Maybe, IDK... but if she had just gotten money and needed time away from Gabriel.
Click to expand...
I do remember "having her nails done" as one thing mentioned after her arrest, among other things like shopping and so forth. So, you might be right. Not all nail salons book appointments though but some still do. :)
 
mydailyopinions said:
I have been thinking the same thing BeanE..
Almost to the point where if I were to sit and compare the two, and what EJ possibly learned from Casey's mistakes....I imagine we could come up with tons of things..
Scares me to think of just how many more crazy mother's out there followed Casey's case learning what ways they could get away with it, or what could get them away with it long enough to leave the country?
Click to expand...

I don't really think that many Mothers are studying KC as a "How To Kill A Child And Get Away With It" manual, nor do I think they are using WS as a guide either. I do , however, believe when someone is this off balanced and has a child in their care and someone else takes advantage of the situation instead of alerting authorities that a child may be in danger is a crime in and of itself. Not many women especially this young are going to leave the country, and leave their family/friends behind most don't even have a passport to do so. I could be wrong too!
 
ok, TPS admitted she wrote CC's name on the court documents
do we know if she SIGNED his name? or just filled it in?
 
BeanE said:
Oh mdo, copycats have been a big fear of mine for some time now. It's such a horrible thought.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about it too BeanE. And I hate to say this...all this publicity surrounding the search of this baby is good, but also bad. I think the psuedo celebrity goes to these criminals heads! Look what it has done to the Anthony's. They're faces are plastered all over the media and they are making $.

Hate to be so cynical, but that's what I'm seeing...

ETA -the most important thing however is finding these children
 
mamaeb said:
Ok this maybe weird and not what Elizabeth did, but I was a single mom... and when I had extra money and the ability to have time alone I loved to go get my hair, nails, massage....although it was very rare when I got the chance. Maybe she did that then? Maybe, IDK... but if she had just gotten money and needed time away from Gabriel.
Click to expand...

What is so sad about the thought that she needed time away from him is that she was just away from him for what 10 days? Too, she was on the run..
I would think that being on the run the last thing on her mind would be her nails..
But then again, just like with Casey, a scared mother who had their child kidnapped (sarcasm and all) got a tattoo..
 
About the babysitter .... Analisa also stated on NG that EJ wanted her to babysit Gabriel at her own house, which was very very bizarre since EJ was only gone about 2 hours and it made absolute sense to babysit at the hotel.

It made me wonder if EJ was looking for a babysitter to take Gabriel home and then disappear on them?

However, I discounted this since if it was just a babysitter who Gabriel was dumped on, why not come forward?

It seems that EJ tried some things to dump Gabriel and then took more assertive action in a moment of frustration or desperation -- or negligence.

[If the Smith's were willing I don't get why EJ never handed Gabriel off to them, even though Logan was against it ... she went against his wishes anyway!]
 
mamaeb said:
Ok this may be weird and not what Elizabeth did, but I was a single mom... and when I had extra money and the ability to have time alone I loved to go get my hair, nails, massage....although it was very rare when I got the chance. Maybe she did that then? Maybe, IDK... but if she had just gotten money and needed time away from Gabriel.
Click to expand...

But I think Eliz did that in FLORIDA after Gabriel was GONE!
not during the 2 hour babysitter,IIRC
 
LadyL said:
ok, TPS admitted she wrote CC's name on the court documents
do we know if she SIGNED his name? or just filled it in?
Click to expand...

I think this was on paperwork Elizabeth was turning in to give guardianship to the Smiths, not the Birth certificate, but I may be wrong.
And they had LM as dad and CC as a possible dad.
 
My impression.....could very well be wrong....it's happened before....

On the 20th, EJ called the babysitter and arranged for her to come sit on the 23rd. On the 23rd, the babysitter came and watched Gabriel in the hotel room. EJ went out and met the prospective adoptive parents at a park, some park. She made an agreement with them to hand over Gabe, and possibly collected some up-front cash from them. When she returned to the hotel, she had money (paid the sitter), was happier than when she left (had an agreement in place regarding Gabe), and was having an argument on the phone with someone. I'd guess the argument may have been with Tammi, and may have been about the agreement she'd just made, which Tammi didn't like.

Then on the 26th or early on the 27th, she hands Gabe over to the new parents in the hotel room. She doesn't give them the car seat or all the other baby stuff because they have their own, don't want/need it.

This answers why she said she "met the couple" in the park, but then later says she "handed over Gabe" at the hotel. And she may have not wanted to take Gabe with her the first time she met them because she didn't trust that they wouldn't just take him and run off without giving her something in return? Or maybe didn't want to hand him over without first talking it over with Tammi, and then when Tammi gave her grief about it, decided to turn him over anyway. OR maybe she thought the park thing was a cop/Logan set-up?

Just my own speculation, opinion......no facts to back up any of this.....jusst thinking online...
 
passionflower said:
After listening to the show, my heart fell.
I think our Angel Gabriel is gone.
The full text to Logan was very detailed...........as one speaker said.
I am beginning to think it did happen, similiar to that.
Like kc, throw away baby and go party!! New life! New ID. New state.........
If he was sold EJ would have money and could tell where he is.
This all back fired on the Smith's who thought they had Gabriel without any hitches.
$500. could be just a couple 'tricks'...........
The Smith's have to pretend there is hope.........to throw LE off of them.
His tiny body may never be found.......if EJ threw him away, it's to late.
They threw everyone off with a live baby.
Smith's & Eliz is very VAGUE about everything!
Click to expand...
I lost more hope with the reminder of the high price that could be brought in for selling a healthy, Caucasian baby and the money she didn't have with her when arrested. Maybe when she left Arizona that was the intention and something had been set up for her to do so, so she cleaned him up, took the pictures, but maybe it fell through? Maybe the prospective adoptive parents backed out? And they won't come forward now because they were involved in something illegal? So if that happened, then I could see EJ getting rid of him like she texted Logan and moving on with her new life in Florida. Just a few thoughts. :( MOO
 
mamaeb said:
I think this was on paperwork Elizabeth was turning in to give guardianship to the Smiths, not the Birth certificate, but I may be wrong.
And they had LM as dad and CC as a possible dad.
Click to expand...

Not Guardianship papers, I remember TS talking about helping her to get her custody and child support going. Paternity docs.
 
mydailyopinions said:
What is so sad about the thought that she needed time away from him is that she was just away from him for what 10 days? Too, she was on the run..
I would think that being on the run the last thing on her mind would be her nails..
But then again, just like with Casey, a scared mother who had their child kidnapped (sarcasm and all) got a tattoo..
Click to expand...

so true!! I didn't even think of that
 
LadyL said:
ok, TPS admitted she wrote CC's name on the court documents
do we know if she SIGNED his name? or just filled it in?
Click to expand...

they showed the document on one of the news shows, and it appears to be filled in on the form, printed, not signed. For those papers, the man in question doesn't have to sign.
 
mamaeb...

can we reconstruct your examples from the show with the SS#s and such to put them out to the public and broader media - you get credit of course!
 
I really hope that soon LE will release what they know of all her locations so that some kind of ground search can begin. It has been so long now that he has been missing..
If he is still alive and in San Antonio with a couple, then maybe the fear of searchers going door to door will convince this couple to take him in safely..

This is just way too sad!
 
Does EJ have a lawyer yet? I wonder how often LE is talking to EJ? How unbelievably frustrated they must be. ARGH!
 
time said:
mamaeb...

can we reconstruct your examples from the show with the SS#s and such to put them out to the public and broader media - you get credit of course!
Click to expand...

sure. actually.... if anything I'd rather is say a "websleuth poster" (not my real name or screen name) and also some of the stuff I got from here.
 
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