NCAA Sanctions: "DP" for Penn Football, or...?

Should the NCAA give Penn State the "death penalty"?


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Wow. I find this following story to be unbelievable, but it comes from the Chronicle of Higher Education, so it must have merit.

Jim Delany Wants the Power to Fire Coaches

http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/jim-delany-wants-the-power-to-fire-coaches/30771



This power grab could be the first step in the Big 10 conference penalizing Penn State. This scandal -- and Penn State's lack of action -- is severely harming the Big 10's brand. I wouldn't be surprised if the conference acts before the NCAA to punish PSU.

Here's another source: (altho it quotes the Chronicle of Higher Education)

Big Ten mulls authorizing commish to fire coaches, possible Penn State ouster

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19614092

...........Such extreme measures are on the table in response to the extreme scandal at Penn State, where late coach Joe Paterno and a small handful of university administrators repeatedly turned a blind eye to allegations of sexual abuse by longtime defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky over more than a decade. (Sandusky was convicted on 45 counts of sexually abusing children last month.) According to the Chronicle, an 18-page proposal currently under consideration by Big Ten members is designed to target coaches and other officials who "interfere with normal admissions, compliance, hiring, or disciplinary processes," and calls for university presidents and athletic directors to have policies in place for resisting inappropriate meddling by boosters and trustees.

Part of that discussion will involve whether to allow Penn State to remain in the conference at all. PSU is already facing crippling judgments from the NCAA and the Department of Education, including the possibility that the football program will be shut down under the "Death Penalty." Current language in the 2011-12 Big Ten handbook requires any member that fails to show complete and accurate information during an investigation to "show cause why its membership in the conference should not be suspended or terminated." At the final stage, expulsion would require a vote of at least 70 percent, or eight of twelve member schools.

More at link....
 
different perspective on sanctions.....actually one that makes sense...looks at the 2A inquiry letter as "painting the NCAA into a box" rather than a true indicator of how the 2A is actually viewing the transgressions....Bilas, like many involved in sports (Bilas was a former major player) doesnt want the DP for PSU but he at leats recognizes the hostile and threatening attitude the 2A is taking towards PSU...as a matter of fact this is one of the few sports columnists that has referred to the letter at all, even though the letter is a clanging bell in all of this...it is threatenening and predictive in its tone. The letter makes me think the 2A is outraged at PSU and is going to give them the DP, but Bilas sees it as "painting the 2A into a corner", and he is trying to give them a way out of the corner without giving the the DP...this manner of sanctioning would be effective, and seem an attractive alternative to the DP....but the outrage is so great, the lack of control so "egregious" (Emmert's word) how could they not termniate with extreme prejudice?:

http://espn.go.com/college-football...caa-better-sanction-penn-state-administrators
 
Penn State can throw all the money it wants and then crow about "doing good." But when it came to the truth, NO ONE stepped up. What's that old adage: A day late and a dollar short!

weazelly...they supposedly gave the money originally as a sign they were sorry...now they bring it up as a sign they are "self sanctioning", which means they want to soften the penalty the 2A might impose. it is a common practice...and it works quite a bit..its interesting to me that Erickson goes so low as to define the "contribution" as a loss of money to the athetic department. he redefines the purpose of its being given in the first place, originally the money was offered as retribution and acknowledgment: we are sorry we did this, so here is some money to make up for it and to help prevent child abuse...but now, he is saying to the ncaa...see we are self imposing financial hardships on our program, so you dont need to impose hardships on us.

sickening really.
 
mike and mike this am apparently have read the 2A letter and recent comments from Emmert and they understand the the 2A is seriously considering the DP and IS itself very serious about serious consequences for psu, but M n M are against a shutdown, as are most. but they are joing what is becoming an increasing number of commentators who say:

let the program play (cause, you know, all the innocent people involved) but make it pay bigtime...use the great majority of the money it makes to further child sexual abuse prevention.

One or tw0 commentators floated this idea yesterday, in the face of widespread indifference or ignorance on the part of the media that wasnt paying attention to the signs from the 2A that it was SERIOUS and not going to give psu a free pass. so now they are beginning to understand, but still do not want the program shut down.

it was very interesting to me how many media types were missing the huge signs from the 2A and kept insisting: 1. psu broke no ncaa rules, and 2. no sense penalyzing the innocent players there now. but now the media has seen that the 2A is not going to go that route, and the media doesnt want to appear out of touch, or just plain stupid....

it only took them a few months...Emmert sent the letter in NOVEMBER, but he made the comments last week. it was like Emmert was saying: people pay attention. this is not going unpunished by US. the media is finally getting it,
 
Penn State scandal warrants 4-year football suspension

http://bostonglobe.com/opinion/edit...-penn-state/xW6KRryEEezGxk0o5Rf0jL/story.html

The typical college football scandal involves violations of recruiting rules or of athletes’ amateur status. These are serious issues, but the scandal at Penn State involves something truly sinister: the sexual abuse of children, made possible by — and then covered up by — the outsize power of legendary coach Joe Paterno’s football program. The university’s worshipful deference to football enabled former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky to prey on at least 10 young boys — most notoriously in the team’s locker room. This attitude has to be uprooted. Confronted with the unprecedented nature of these events, the National Collegiate Athletic Association should impose a four-year suspension on the football program — a long enough period for Penn State to work the Paterno era out of its system.............
 
I disagree on a 'death penalty'. And I ask those who want a 'death penalty', why? At the end of the day, what do you think will be accomplished? Do you believe that giving Penn State the death penalty or disbanding the football program will be a deterrent for sex abuse at other campus'?


Two reasons:
1. The culture at that university that football runs that place needs to be eradicated. All other football programs need an example of what happens when 1 man (Paterno) is allowed this much power and has this many people deferring to him.

2. Although I haven't seen any investigations into recruiting or adherence to NCAA regulations at PSU, it is quite likely, given the amount of absolute power and lack of opposition Paterno had, that a multitude of NCAA violations have occurred. Anyone who would actively protect a child molester and facilitates his ability to continue his activities while still looking the other way really has NO moral compass at all and probably also believes rules don't apply to him or his program.

Sometimes it takes a sledgehammer to get a point through and in the case of Penn State and its fans' continued protection of the memory of Paterno, the sledgehammer is the death penalty.

It's less about teaching other programs about not allowing sex abuse and more about not allowing one sports program and a coach to unofficially run an entire university.
 
First of all, I am not a football fan.

Second, I think there are a number of factors:

1. Because the 1998 incident was properly reported, and there is currently no evidence of improper influence from PSU, I don't think that incident should come into play. I will change my opinion if evidence surfaces to the contrary.

2. In 2001, this was university scandal, not a football scandal. The decisions, while involving the football coach and a GA, did not involve the playing of football or the recruiting of players. The offender was not part of the program.

3. The principals are no longer involved in the administration of the school.

4. The was a lack of institutional control, but that extended to mismanagement and criminality well beyond the football program. Some it, however, did impact the program.

This is deserving of a penalty, but what is the proper penalty?

A. The death penalty, along with all other NCAA penalties, is not meant to enforce criminal law, nor is meant to correct maladministration outside of the sports realm. The penalties should be inflicted only to cover the sports aspect.

B. The death penalty will have adverse effects on:

i. Current players.

ii. The economy of the Centre County region.

iii. The University, by removing a source of funding.

Based on that, I have to reluctantly that the death penalty is inappropriate.

A penalty is appropriate, and I would look at something like this:

I. No bowl games for four years.

II. No off campus recruiting for four years.

III. Reduction in the number of football scholarships for four years.

IV. Expulsion from the Big Ten, with possible readmission after four years. No affiliation with any other conference during that period.

V. Five year probation, of course.
 
What would expulsion from the Big Ten mean in terms of real impact on student-players and the university?
 
My husband loves college games, but he feels that there should be a DP on PSU.
I can't vote because I just don't know.
I feel so bad for the students.
 
What would expulsion from the Big Ten mean in terms of real impact on student-players and the university?

It would probably cut into their television revenue. It will hurt, but it won't kill.

They might have a problem scheduling with "name" teams.
 
First of all, I am not a football fan.

Second, I think there are a number of factors:

1. Because the 1998 incident was properly reported, and there is currently no evidence of improper influence from PSU, I don't think that incident should come into play. I will change my opinion if evidence surfaces to the contrary.

2. In 2001, this was university scandal, not a football scandal. The decisions, while involving the football coach and a GA, did not involve the playing of football or the recruiting of players. The offender was not part of the program.

3. The principals are no longer involved in the administration of the school.

4. The was a lack of institutional control, but that extended to mismanagement and criminality well beyond the football program. Some it, however, did impact the program.

This is deserving of a penalty, but what is the proper penalty?

A. The death penalty, along with all other NCAA penalties, is not meant to enforce criminal law, nor is meant to correct maladministration outside of the sports realm. The penalties should be inflicted only to cover the sports aspect.

B. The death penalty will have adverse effects on:

i. Current players.

ii. The economy of the Centre County region.

iii. The University, by removing a source of funding.

Based on that, I have to reluctantly that the death penalty is inappropriate.

A penalty is appropriate, and I would look at something like this:

I. No bowl games for four years.

II. No off campus recruiting for four years.

III. Reduction in the number of football scholarships for four years.

IV. Expulsion from the Big Ten, with possible readmission after four years. No affiliation with any other conference during that period.

V. Five year probation, of course.

The problem with expulsion from the Big 10 is that it would mean expulsion for ALL Penn State sports teams. That's a big deal. I know Penn State has won national championships in recent years in both wrestling and women's volleyball, so the sports program, as a whole, benefits greatly from membership in the conference.

The death penalty would be football specific, and I think it's only fair to localize the punishment, as much as possible, to the football program. I could see your other four suggested penalties as a substitute for the death penalty. They might even be more severe than the DP in the long run.
 
I suddenly had a flashback to the U.S.'s decision to boycott the 1980 Olympics.

And all those kids who had trained so hard for years having their hopes and dreams dashed.

The PSU situation is not neatly analogous with that, but my point is that history is rife with examples of innocents being punished for the actions of a few.

It is nothing new and no reason not to mete out deserved punishment for the institution that enabled that few.

As a college football fan, when I conjure the mental image of a Penn State home game being televised this fall, and the camera panning across the spectators as it always does, and them cheering and signaling #1 with their index fingers as fans always do in that situation, even if they are from East Cheese Fries State that has a 1-8 record, I just want to vomit.

I truly believe nothing could be more sickening, and more disrespectful to the victims, than allowing that kind of football business-as-usual to take place in just a few short weeks from now.

Death penalty? I'm not sure. But I do believe that PSU needs to, on its own, take at least a year off from football for reflection and reform.

For those who say that this will unfairly punish local businesses whose livelihoods rely in large part on the football economy, I reply that PSU should set up a claims fund from its billion dollar or so endowment to compensate those not at fault yet apt to suffer from the institution's actions or in this case non-action.

Compensate all the victims of the cover-up, not solely JS's direct victims, although they of course should stand first in line.
 
The problem with expulsion from the Big 10 is that it would mean expulsion for ALL Penn State sports teams. That's a big deal. I know Penn State has won national championships in recent years in both wrestling and women's volleyball, so the sports program, as a whole, benefits greatly from membership in the conference.

Two points:

1. I said that this not a football problem, so I'm not adverse to punishing the university as a whole. Football subsidized these programs for decades.

2. Would it be possible, if desired, to just suspend the football team from participating in the Big Ten?

The death penalty would be football specific, and I think it's only fair to localize the punishment, as much as possible, to the football program. I could see your other four suggested penalties as a substitute for the death penalty. They might even be more severe than the DP in the long run.

As I said, this is not a football scandal but a Penn State scandal. Basically, a fitting punishment is for football fanatics, alumni, and residents to look at Spanier, Garban, those "country club" Trustees, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Sandusky and think, "You did this to us."
 
It has been demonstrated the M.O. to cover up Sandusky has been used in other cases by PSU. Look at the Michael Mann and Antonio Lasaga incidents for example both outside sports. If just football gets punished, the whole act can be moved over to wrestling, basketball and/or hockey and do nothing to change the environment which led to this.
Also I feel "you did this to us" would allow many to disassociate themselves to what happened and deflect blame from the university as a whole. The healing may be better served by attitudes other than us against them.
 
It has been demonstrated the M.O. to cover up Sandusky has been used in other cases by PSU. Look at the Michael Mann and Antonio Lasaga incidents for example both outside sports. If just football gets punished, the whole act can be moved over to wrestling, basketball and/or hockey and do nothing to change the environment which led to this.
Also I feel "you did this to us" would allow many to disassociate themselves to what happened and deflect blame from the university as a whole. The healing may be better served by attitudes other than us against them.

Well, I do think the bulk of Penn State and the community were not involved.
 
Two points:

1. I said that this not a football problem, so I'm not adverse to punishing the university as a whole. Football subsidized these programs for decades.

2. Would it be possible, if desired, to just suspend the football team from participating in the Big Ten?

As I said, this is not a football scandal but a Penn State scandal. Basically, a fitting punishment is for football fanatics, alumni, and residents to look at Spanier, Garban, those "country club" Trustees, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Sandusky and think, "You did this to us."

1. Never again can the athletic director at Penn State be the "errand boy" to the football coach (that description of Curley is from a senior administrator at PSU quoted in the Freeh report). One way to do that is punish the entire university, as you suggest.

2. Won't happen. Notre Dame has wanted to join the Big 10 for years in every sport except football. ND does not want to share the television revenue it receives from NBC for the rights to televise the school's home games. The Big 10 demanded full membership from ND, so ND joined the Big East conference for every sports except football. Big East, however, was recently relegated to minor status as a conference (Boise State recently joined the conference. Yes, Boise State is in the Big East!)

The Atlantic Coast Conference could be a possible alternative, down the road, for Penn State, if they are expelled from the Big 10. It would be a drop in status for the football program, but the ACC is strong in other sports. Also, academically, it would be good fit for Penn State, joining with universities like U of Va, U of NC, Syracuse, etc.
 
Well, ya know, sometimes life isn't fair. Consider it a lesson learned during college days, students and players. As for coaches - meh. We saw something of the college game's inner workings during this sad fiasco. Don't count on any sympathy from me for college coaches.

Death penalty. Three years minimum, five max.
 

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