That's what I've been trying to say!
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Intruder probability more, less, or same?
- Thread starter Holdontoyourhat
- Start date
That's what I've been trying to say!
Thats funny. Unlike RDI, I never characterized how it was written, by which hand, or whether the author was disgusing their writing or spelling. What are you talking about? I did once suggest the RN was written by BOTH hands at the same time, but I was just kidding around.
Suppose the RN and PR's exemplars both had the same misspelled word 'bussiness'. Then suppose I argued that its a commonly misspelled word and both PR and the intruder misspelled it. THEN I would be dismissing evidence that PR wrote the note, by formulating an unsubstantial claim in response to RDI-favoring evidence. See what I mean?
Your posts imply, at least to me, that you do not believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. If that's not what you think then please do say so.
I am not a questioned documents examiner but common sense tells me that anyone at any time can fake spelling errors, especially a highly educated, intelligent person such as Patsy who also would have been highly motivated to make such errors purposely. I'm sure she was acquainted with red herrings.
MurriFlower
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I would like to find out more about Suzanne Savage if anyone can provide some information or links. TIA
Holdontoyourhat
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Your posts imply, at least to me, that you do not believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. If that's not what you think then please do say so.
I am not a questioned documents examiner but common sense tells me that anyone at any time can fake spelling errors, especially a highly educated, intelligent person such as Patsy who also would have been highly motivated to make such errors purposely. I'm sure she was acquainted with red herrings.
Firstly, the idea that a female victimized JBR is somewhat rare as sexually assaulted females go. Secondly, the idea that a child murder was done by an educated, intelligent person is rare.
Now, you would multiply the two rarities together to get the final probability that a highly educated, intelligent female sexually assaulted and murdered a female child.
I would like to know of one highly educated, intelligent person who would, under ANY circumstance, be so stupid as to handwrite a long ransom note and leave it in their own house. This seems so massively paradoxical, as to not be plausible. I'm surprised ANYBODY in LE really thought this even for a minute.
Patsy wrote the note.
Anyway....
I don't think Patsy was sexually molesting her daughter. I think it was a male relative.
There could have been injuries caused by Patsy if she was douching her daughter, though.
I do know that there are cases where children are molested by women, even their mothers, as awful as that is. But I do not feel that was the case here.
Anyway....
I don't think Patsy was sexually molesting her daughter. I think it was a male relative.
There could have been injuries caused by Patsy if she was douching her daughter, though.
I do know that there are cases where children are molested by women, even their mothers, as awful as that is. But I do not feel that was the case here.
Holdontoyourhat
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Patsy wrote the note.
No, actually an ESL wrote the note. That much is obvious. The vocabulary in the RN never leaves elementary school, neither does the spelling. Although the composition and subject matter is far beyond elementary school.
Its an adult ESL.
Holdontoyourhat
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Why does the ransom note handwriting appear jittery and sometimes awkward?
RDI: because PR wrote the note and disguised her handwriting.
OK, then why is the ransom note sooo looooong if PR was worried about LE spotting her handwriting?
===================
The existence of a long, handwritten note belies the notion that its author was ever concerned about concealing handwriting. It is therefore possible that the jittery awkward handwriting is instead caused by a lack of writing experience and practice.
An ESL wrote the note.
RDI: because PR wrote the note and disguised her handwriting.
OK, then why is the ransom note sooo looooong if PR was worried about LE spotting her handwriting?
===================
The existence of a long, handwritten note belies the notion that its author was ever concerned about concealing handwriting. It is therefore possible that the jittery awkward handwriting is instead caused by a lack of writing experience and practice.
An ESL wrote the note.
Why does the ransom note handwriting appear jittery and sometimes awkward?
RDI: because PR wrote the note and disguised her handwriting.
Check! Now we're getting somewhere.
OK, then why is the ransom note sooo looooong if PR was worried about LE spotting her handwriting?
Well, it's possible she was arrogant enough to think she could outsmart the police. (She wouldn't be the first). Add to that the more likely possibility that she got too caught up in the excitement and stress to know when to quit. That fits with her theatrical nature.
Firstly, the idea that a female victimized JBR is somewhat rare as sexually assaulted females go. Secondly, the idea that a child murder was done by an educated, intelligent person is rare.
Now, you would multiply the two rarities together to get the final probability that a highly educated, intelligent female sexually assaulted and murdered a female child.
I would like to know of one highly educated, intelligent person who would, under ANY circumstance, be so stupid as to handwrite a long ransom note and leave it in their own house. This seems so massively paradoxical, as to not be plausible. I'm surprised ANYBODY in LE really thought this even for a minute.
To sum it up, arrogance goes a long way and not all homicides are murders.
Why does the ransom note handwriting appear jittery and sometimes awkward?
RDI: because PR wrote the note and disguised her handwriting.
OK, then why is the ransom note sooo looooong if PR was worried about LE spotting her handwriting?
===================
The existence of a long, handwritten note belies the notion that its author was ever concerned about concealing handwriting. It is therefore possible that the jittery awkward handwriting is instead caused by a lack of writing experience and practice.
An ESL wrote the note.
The note had to say everything that PR thought it should say. NOTHING in that note sounds like ESL wrote it. Believe me, I taught in an area where 60% of my students were ESL. The note would have been very different.
NOT ONE of the document examiners said the note was written by a person whose first language was not English. Nor does the note sound like it was written by an uneducated person. It sounds like it was written by a middle-class adult white woman. And it was.
Holdontoyourhat
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The note had to say everything that PR thought it should say. NOTHING in that note sounds like ESL wrote it. Believe me, I taught in an area where 60% of my students were ESL. The note would have been very different.
NOT ONE of the document examiners said the note was written by a person whose first language was not English. Nor does the note sound like it was written by an uneducated person. It sounds like it was written by a middle-class adult white woman. And it was.
An adult male ESL wrote the note.
Consider the totality of evidence: the jittery awkward penmanship, bizarre and commanding phrases nobody understands, no fear of leaving long handwritten notes, the poor spelling, the slim vocabulary, borrowing lines from movies, the unusual garrote, the sexually victimized child, the absense of any local leads whatsoever, and the unknown male DNA. Without a doubt, it all adds up to adult male ESL.
Holdontoyourhat
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To sum it up, arrogance goes a long way and not all homicides are murders.
Maybe you should take that up with the coroner, who stated: cause of death is ASPHYXIA BY STRANGULATION.
Please find a single example of asphyxia by strangulation where it wasn't a murder, then point out how 'not all homicides are murders'.
Or, will we now be needing to rewrite the autopsy report to omit the cause of death and include prior injuries, in order to suit the RDI model??
Maybe you should take that up with the coroner, who stated: cause of death is ASPHYXIA BY STRANGULATION.
Please find a single example of asphyxia by strangulation where it wasn't a murder, then point out how 'not all homicides are murders'.
Or, will we now be needing to rewrite the autopsy report to omit the cause of death and include prior injuries, in order to suit the RDI model??
Your above comments have been addressed here several times. I'm not going to repeat what's already been said.
Holdontoyourhat
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Check! Now we're getting somewhere.
Well, it's possible she was arrogant enough to think she could outsmart the police. (She wouldn't be the first). Add to that the more likely possibility that she got too caught up in the excitement and stress to know when to quit. That fits with her theatrical nature.
Q. How many highly educated, intelligent people are going to handwrite a 350 word ransom note and leave it in their own home?
A. Zero.
Q. How many foreign people are going to learn English, come to this country, sneak into a big house while people are away, write a politically charged ransom note, sexually assault and murder a small child, and leave?
A. Three, apparently.
Holdontoyourhat
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The note had to say everything that PR thought it should say.
This is a high RDI myth. There's no truth to this idea. Its a COMPLETE fiction. The ransom note added nothing to the basement crime scene.
The note had to say everything that PR thought it should say.
Yeah, that's where I was headed.
NOT ONE of the document examiners said the note was written by a person whose first language was not English. Nor does the note sound like it was written by an uneducated person. It sounds like it was written by a middle-class adult white woman. And it was.
According to the guys who do this for a living. Let's have a look:
Roger L. DePue is a former head of the FBI Behavioral Sciences Unit. In 2006, he told reporter Ronald Kessler that Patsy Ramsey fit the profile of the person who wrote the ransom note. Apparently, he was making public what he and psychiatrist Dr. Bertram Brown had told Alex Hunter. "The writer is a well-educated, middle-aged female. The writer used the term 'fat cat,' suggesting that the person is middle aged. 'Fat cat' is a term used in the 1960s and 1970s. The writer," Depue said, "is a close relative, friend, or business associate, in that order." Depue said that conclusion and the circumstances surrounding the note fit the profile of Patricia Ramsey.
During the brief media frenzy in the summer of 2006, former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt was interviewed several times over a period of days. During an interview with cable news outlet MSNBC, Van Zandt said that he and several other profilers had studied the note and concluded that the writer was either a woman or a "very genteel male."
Robert K. Ressler is founder of the FBI Behavioral Sciences Unit. He echoed DePue's sentiments.
Holdontoyourhat
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Believe me, I taught in an area where 60% of my students were ESL. The note would have been very different.
You've no idea what you're talking about.
There are 100000's of foreign ESL's who were taught English at such an early age that you couldn't distinguish them at all. ESL is mandatory in many countries. Maybe you're confusing ESL's here in the process of learning vs. foreign ESL's already learned at a young age.
Q. How many highly educated, intelligent people are going to handwrite a 350 word ransom note and leave it in their own home?
A. This one. I stand by what I said, HOTYH. I never cease to be amazed at the things people, even "smart" people, will do when they get pushed into a corner. I had to learn that the hard way before it finally sunk in.
Q. How many foreign people are going to learn English, come to this country, sneak into a big house while people are away, write a politically charged ransom note, sexually assault and murder a small child, and leave?
A. I'm getting a headache.
Holdontoyourhat
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Yeah, that's where I was headed.
According to the guys who do this for a living. Let's have a look:
Roger L. DePue is a former head of the FBI Behavioral Sciences Unit. In 2006, he told reporter Ronald Kessler that Patsy Ramsey fit the profile of the person who wrote the ransom note. Apparently, he was making public what he and psychiatrist Dr. Bertram Brown had told Alex Hunter. "The writer is a well-educated, middle-aged female. The writer used the term 'fat cat,' suggesting that the person is middle aged. 'Fat cat' is a term used in the 1960s and 1970s. The writer," Depue said, "is a close relative, friend, or business associate, in that order." Depue said that conclusion and the circumstances surrounding the note fit the profile of Patricia Ramsey..
This is clearly wrong, as 'fat cat' isn't a term used in the 1960's and 1970's and therefore doesn't suggest that the person is middle aged. This exposes a political naivety that when combined with a politically charged ransom note leaves a lot to be desired.
It seems to me this is an off-handed remark made by someone who spent very little time researching and formulating an opinion.
Holdontoyourhat
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A. This one. I stand by what I said, HOTYH. I never cease to be amazed at the things people, even "smart" people, will do when they get pushed into a corner. I had to learn that the hard way before it finally sunk in.
I think you're proclaiming that you are highly educated and intelligent, but you would do something stupid when pushed into a corner. OK I can see that, but what was pushing PR into a corner?
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