17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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Isabelle said:
Could be she doesn't want to be identified and could be that investigators told her to keep her identity secret and not discuss what she witnessed. Think maybe she is afraid?!
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I don't know what to think? I was livid when investigators corrected MC... I am even more livid that it may have happened to another witness. And who would say such a thing to a witness?? "If it's any consolation, the guy screaming is alive?" The investigator wasn't there to witness who was screaming? He may have gotten that information from "John" but it is NOT his job to inform a witness to what another witness stated?

Witness statements very rarely match up... but it appears LE tried in vain to make all the witnesses story match. :banghead:

MOO
 
Beyond Belief said:
I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this in motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?
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He wasn't a security guard for the complex. He wasn't a security anything for the complex. He was a self-appointed neighborhood watch "captain." He has no official capacity at that complex whatsoever. Nothing, nada. He was a renter in the community. He was no different from any other person living in that complex except he had a problem following the rules.


~jmo~
 
vlpate said:
Steven Segal, the actor?
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Yes, he is also a deputy sheriff in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, has been for over 20 years, don't know which was the "side" job acting or law enforcement.

jmo, imo and all that jazz
 
Beyond Belief said:
I don't know, it was raining, some distance between them, and I don't think Trayvon had his glasses on, unless of course he used contact lenses.
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Not according to Zimmerman? According to Zimmerman, Trayvon was walking towards him and checking him out? I'm sure if Zimmerman had "security" written on his vehicle with a "flashing light" and Zimmerman got out of the car in a "security uniform", Trayvon would not have been so scared.

MOO
 
Another thing, police even have warned people not to pull over for any car that could be mistaken for an unmarked police car while driving on a dark secluded road because so many police impersonations (robbing/kidnapping/killing). You're to call 911 and get confirmation that you are being pulled over by an actual Police Officer.
 
Adrienne37 said:
He wasn't a security guard for the complex. He wasn't a security anything for the complex. He was a self-appointed neighborhood watch "captain." He has no official capacity at that complex whatsoever. Nothing, nada. He was a renter in the community. He was no different from any other person living in that complex except he had a problem following the rules.


~jmo~
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We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.
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A guy in a truck.

Staring at him.

In a red coat.

Lookin about.

Something in his hand.

Following me.
 
Beyond Belief said:
We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.
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No Trayvon probably thought he was the boogeyman, someone stalking him, someone following him, someone "checking him out." Trayvon was likely scared to death for good reason.



~jmo~
 
Beyond Belief said:
We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.
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Trayvon had no reason whatsoever to believe that he was anything but a stalker. If you walked through a gated community and someone followed you would you assume they were security? I sure as heck wouldn't unless they were in a uniform or in a marked car.
 
Beyond Belief said:
We know that, but Trayvon wouldn't have known that.
.
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Even more reason for him to be scared! He had no idea who this guy was and why he was being followed.

When Trayvon was "checking Zimmerman out" while Zimmerman was on the phone with LE... why couldn't have Zimmerman simply asked "Yo! What's up Homie... are you new to the neighborhood?" If Trayvon got offended... it would have been caught on tape... Zimmerman would have been safely in his car... Police would have arrived and handled it?

MOO
 
JeannaT said:
I guess I'm not following your thoughts . . .

It seems to me, that Bonaparte is taking issue with Tracy Martin's reporting than an officer called Zimmerman's record "squeaky clean". As in, no one said that to him.

I'm not sure about someone saying it, and someone else not correcting it.

It seems Bonaparte is saying no one said it.

Why, in the conversation where they inform parents that their minor child is dead, would the cop go on in detail that Zimmerman had been charged but went into a youthful offender program many years ago? I would think that wouldn't come up in an initial conversation about a deceased child.
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mercuriod said:
Youthful offender program? What youthful offender program did GZ go into, link please.
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Isabelle said:
I thought GZ was an adult when he went through anger management. Did LE kind of change that story, so it would sound better.
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Isabelle, to answer your question, I don't know, I linked the post I was questioning where JeannaT stated that GZ went into a youthful offender program, and my question because I want to know where JeannaT got the "youthful offender program" information from, I do not believe this is true, I think it has been thrown out there trying to make GZ "look" better and I think it is untrue, which is why I asked for a link.

jmo, imo and all that jazz
 
For me, by virtue of GZ claiming self-defense or SYG, he exposes himself to additional scrutiny. He must defend his decision to the authorities. What has been said by him, by his father, by his lawyers or anyone is open to interpretation of the law. No matter what the media is squawking about, GZ would be better served if he would shut up and tell family members/lawyers defending him to shut up.

A very small part of my heart goes out GZ because he will have to live with this nanosecond of bad judgement for the rest of his life. I'm sure he didn't leave his house that night expecting to shoot a young man to death. Death came unexpectedly.

Tragedy lives on. I can't imagine or even try to bear the grief of TM's parents. Not a perfect child but one they were certainly proud of.
 
JeannaT said:
The misconception here, is that he doesn't have to have authority to follow someone who is in public, while waiting for LE to show up and investigate.

Where would we be, as a society, if you saw something you thought was suspicious and you don't have a right to keep an eye on the person while the cop you just called is on the way?
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Every American has the right to be left alone unless they are doing something illegal. Neither private citizens nor the police have the right or authority to follow, stop, or question random people when there is no probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed.
 
Concerned Papa said:
In my earlier posts regarding his interview with Sean Hannity, I had been calling GZ's father Richard. His name is Robert. Thanks for not beating me over the head with that, but I think we owe Robert a big round of thanks because in <modsnip> he told in this interview, for the first time that I'm aware of, we are being told where George's truck was parked when he got out of it to follow TM.

With that mystery finally solved, let's take a look at what we KNOW <modsnip> for the rest of his story.

A LIE?

How do we know, you ask? Because every one of us HEARD what happened while the events of Robert Zimmerman's tale unfolded. We HEARD, and we HAVE the transcripts to prove it! Take a look at the image below:

TMRZ.png


(a) We know that GZ got out of his car and began following TM at [2:08] into the 911 call. We've all even heard his door alarm pinging as he exits the vehicle.

(b) We also know that 18 seconds later, at [2:26] we heard:

Using our documented walking rate for an adult male of 4.4 feet/sec, we can place the distance walked in this 18 seconds by GZ at 79 feet when he was asked/told/advised to discontinue following TM.

(c) Notice what RZ told Sean Hannity at this point:

He is saying that GZ continued walking down the sidewalk to the next street AFTER being told to stop following TM which is a distance of 140 feet from point to point. Using our 4.4 feet per second rule, that would put him at the end of the sidewalk at [2:58].

(d) Next Robert Zimmerman tells us this:

The distance shown above in yellow returning to "where the sidewalks meet" is 97 feet. Our distance/time calculation shows 22 seconds being required to arrive at the point where Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked his son at [3:20].

<modsnip> Go to any 911 recording and listen. Go to any 911 transcript and read:

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS STILL TALKING TO THE 911 DISPATCHER when Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked and beat his son. In fact, it is then and only then that the dispatcher asked GZ for an address for where he was parked!

I don't know what else there is to say. <modsnip>

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...er-defends-son-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=1
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this is an excellent post.....just outstanding. thanks for sharing.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
Wonder who the Officer was and I wonder if George showed them the cool gun he was packing.
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On 09/23/2011 GZ called in to SPD about and open garage and to let them know about the meeting with Sgt. Herix the night before.

It's in the 911 call history for GZ that I downloaded from the Sanford site, but since that is no longer on the site, I can't give a link. That information is probably available at some media site, but I stuck to getting information directly from the source.

Since no link, IMO, JMO, etc.
 
Chris_Texas said:
Sounds scary.



He ran to where the guy with the car could no longer continue following him, then thinking he had lost him and that he was safe -- fifteen seconds run from his door -- he went back to talking to his girlfriend. With his hoodie up in the rain he never noticed GZ coming up behind him until it was too late.



If Trayvon NEEDED to sprint all the way home in order to be safe from Zimmerman, if he needed to hide inside to avoid being killed, then the problem is not with Trayvon.

Trayvon had a right to be there, he had a right to be outside, he had a right to walk or stand on his own sidewalk, he had a right to not be harrassed, he had a right to ignore this clown, he had a right to STAND HIS GROUND. What Trayvon did instead was run. He ran away from the scary guy. He ran all the way to where the potential maniac in the car could no longer follow him, to where he was safe in the middle of all these houses.

Except he wasn't safe ever there.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, had no legal authority to do any of the things he did. Not as a private citizen, and not as a neighborhood watchman. He's not empowered to stop and question people he doesn't like and expect answers. Even the police cannot just stop random people and demand to know their identity and business. Nor was Zimmerman empowered to follow people around, scaring them. That's not his job, it's no one's job. Again, even the police are not allowed to follow people for no reason.

As scary as your encounter was, let's expand on it. Instead imagine that your creepy guy was following you as you took your walk. He's behind you in his car, so you cut through an ally. He's waiting on the far side. Staring, watching you, creeping along in his car. Then he gets out of his car in front of you. You have enough of this nut and you run for it.

Now YOU would likely go all the way home and then phone 911. I would too, and I am an adult male. But Trayvon was a young, black, teen boy -- and taken together that's a powerful disincentive to phone the police. Trayvon, Mr Macho, didn't even tell his girl that he had ran, he said just walked real fast. In short, he did what any teen boy would do, he got away from the nut and went back to his business. That business being girls.

We can stand back and critique Trayvon's survival performance. We can say 'If only he had done this or that, run here, jumped there, gone home, locked his door, climbed a tree, bought a snickers instead of skittles, or whatever.' That's okay to discuss when we are trying to figure out how to survive if we find ourselves hunted by a maniac, but let us not make the mistake of confusing our critique with assigning blame. We don't blame a woman for drinking at a party, or wearing a short dress, or looking attractive, we blame the monster who raped her. We don't blame the little girl helping the nice man find his 'lost puppy.' we blame the monster who slaughtered her.

And here, I don't blame the kid walking home from 7-11 in the rain with candy for his little brother. I blame the monster who hunted him down and killed him.
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One THANK YOU doesn't seem enough for this post but that is all the setup would allow me to give you so.... I just have to say :tyou: :tyou: :tyou: :tyou: :tyou:
 
Concerned Papa, you should be an investigator. You would be freakn awesome!
 
Concerned Papa said:
In my earlier posts regarding his interview with Sean Hannity, I had been calling GZ's father Richard. His name is Robert. Thanks for not beating me over the head with that, but I think we owe Robert a big round of thanks because in <modsnip> he told in this interview, for the first time that I'm aware of, we are being told where George's truck was parked when he got out of it to follow TM.

With that mystery finally solved, let's take a look at what we KNOW <modsnip> for the rest of his story.

A LIE?

How do we know, you ask? Because every one of us HEARD what happened while the events of Robert Zimmerman's tale unfolded. We HEARD, and we HAVE the transcripts to prove it! Take a look at the image below:

TMRZ.png


(a) We know that GZ got out of his car and began following TM at [2:08] into the 911 call. We've all even heard his door alarm pinging as he exits the vehicle.

(b) We also know that 18 seconds later, at [2:26] we heard:

Using our documented walking rate for an adult male of 4.4 feet/sec, we can place the distance walked in this 18 seconds by GZ at 79 feet when he was asked/told/advised to discontinue following TM.

(c) Notice what RZ told Sean Hannity at this point:

He is saying that GZ continued walking down the sidewalk to the next street AFTER being told to stop following TM which is a distance of 140 feet from point to point. Using our 4.4 feet per second rule, that would put him at the end of the sidewalk at [2:58].

(d) Next Robert Zimmerman tells us this:

The distance shown above in yellow returning to "where the sidewalks meet" is 97 feet. Our distance/time calculation shows 22 seconds being required to arrive at the point where Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked his son at [3:20].

<modsnip> Go to any 911 recording and listen. Go to any 911 transcript and read:

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS STILL TALKING TO THE 911 DISPATCHER when Robert Zimmerman says TM brutally attacked and beat his son. In fact, it is then and only then that the dispatcher asked GZ for an address for where he was parked!

I don't know what else there is to say. <modsnip>

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...er-defends-son-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=1
Click to expand...

This is what confuses me about the whole story...

George gets out of his car and walks all the way over to where the other street is... so he passes that long sidewalk and he doesn't see Trayvon so he proceeds to the other street to check the address and begins walking back to his truck when Trayvon jumps him from behind? Where was Trayvon hiding that entire time? Looking where the back of the buildings would be and where the sidewalk is... it looks really open? Maybe I'm missing something like big trees or something because I just don't see where he could have been hiding?

Are the porches screened in at this complex? I would think so?

MOO
 
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