Poll: Will this case ever be solved?

Sophie said:

OK, so does anyone know whether non-resident aliens can make FOIA requests? I am happy to do this and pay any charges...

(I thought Voynich's Trekkie heart would be warmed by my referring to myself as a non-resident alien rather than as a non-citizen)

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I'm pretty sure the case has to be federal for FOIA to be applicable. If the case isn't federal, then there's no FOIA documents in the first place.

States may have their own versions of FOIA.

Holdontoyourhat said:

Nice try, but taught British-English is way more formal than taught US-English. If you are ESL then its likely you were taught British-English.


Sorry, but the expression "Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank" isn't really US-English.

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ESL? (I know I'll kick myself for the obviousness of this). Seriously, HOTYH, I think you are wrong here - schools here are allowing text language for some composition which is just gr8 m8. Obviously the RN writer could be of a much older generation but I don't see it: there is nothing British about that note. I have honestly never heard a compatriot refer to an attache case: it's a brief case and,in any event, a British-English speaker would have said, 'Make sure you take an adequate-sized...'

Sophie said:

ESL? (I know I'll kick myself for the obviousness of this). Seriously, HOTYH, I think you are wrong here - schools here are allowing text language for some composition which is just gr8 m8. Obviously the RN writer could be of a much older generation but I don't see it: there is nothing British about that note. I have honestly never heard a compatriot refer to an attache case: it's a brief case and,in any event, a British-English speaker would have said, 'Make sure you take an adequate-sized...'

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Hi Sophie.

Ya .... 'make sure ya' .... that's an Americanism for sure .... bring ... rather than take.

No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case

Even IF this will ever go to trial (and I mean RDI) it will probably go like this:

DERSHOWITZ: And that's a fair answer, but under your analysis you couldn't arrest John Ramsey and you could only arrest Patsy Ramsey for accidentally causing a death, because I think any criminal lawyer will tell you that if either the death caused -- either the accident caused the death of JonBenet or she reasonably thought it caused the death of JonBenet, whatever she did thereafter could be only be an obstruction of justice. But it wouldn't turn an accident into a murder.

VAN SUSTEREN: And...

THOMAS: Let me respond, Greta, if I could please, just real quickly.

Mr. Dershowitz, you're not getting an argument from me. I lay out that I don't think the father's involved. And as I've said before, I think this was an accidental death, which by definition lacked motive.

I'm not suggesting a first-degree murder charge here.

DERSHOWITZ: Not even a murder charge. Probably at most a negligent homicide charge.

THOMPSON: How about manslaughter, Alan? Are we just forgetting manslaughter?

DERSHOWITZ: Well, manslaughter...



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0005/04/lkl.00.html


It will be very hard to prove especially since PR is dead.

Lawyers will spin it and spin it and I don't see a conviction being possible,ever,not without a R confessing.

voynich said:

would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

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No,that wouldn't be enough for me,not in THIS case.

Sophie said:

ESL? (I know I'll kick myself for the obviousness of this). Seriously, HOTYH, I think you are wrong here - schools here are allowing text language for some composition which is just gr8 m8. Obviously the RN writer could be of a much older generation but I don't see it: there is nothing British about that note. I have honestly never heard a compatriot refer to an attache case: it's a brief case and,in any event, a British-English speaker would have said, 'Make sure you take an adequate-sized...'

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The RN author didn't write 'attache case' either. He wrote 'attache'.

Anyway, there are many terms in the RN that are either really unusual or unused in common US-English. Its obviously English but there's no US-English or British-English slang. Nothing that would instantly direct you to a specific culture or region.

There seems to be a formal, technical, violent yet unemotional rhythm with an international political theme.

Holdontoyourhat said:

The RN author didn't write 'attache case' either. He wrote 'attache'.

Anyway, there are many terms in the RN that are either really unusual or unused in common US-English. Its obviously English but there's no US-English or British-English slang. Nothing that would instantly direct you to a specific culture or region.

There seems to be a formal, technical, violent yet unemotional rhythm with an international political theme.

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Which are the phrases that you consider uncommon in US English? Certainly there are things that I had thought were typically US like the full stop after the 'Mr' and certain phrases come from American films and are therefore American so I don't think you are being entirely fair in suggesting that it's culturally neutral. Similarly, I'm told by Americans that saying 'The two gentlemen' sounds like a Southern States expression. The author identifies 'Southern common sense.' There aren't too many foreigners who would be making so specific a regional comment. And, in fact, countries which understand there are players in this case who had been trained in journalism (where political language becomes second nature) and in business, as well as having a tendency toward linguistic preciousness.

Again, though, this is all faffing around the real point: the author purported to know the Ramseys and had to be comfortable in their home. A SFF fitting these criteria and being capable of writing that RN would be pretty easily identified IMO. By the Ramseys themselves to be honest.

Sophie said:

Which are the phrases that you consider uncommon in US English? Certainly there are things that I had thought were typically US like the full stop after the 'Mr' and certain phrases come from American films and are therefore American so I don't think you are being entirely fair in suggesting that it's culturally neutral. Similarly, I'm told by Americans that saying 'The two gentlemen' sounds like a Southern States expression. The author identifies 'Southern common sense.' There aren't too many foreigners who would be making so specific a regional comment. And, in fact, countries which understand there are players in this case who had been trained in journalism (where political language becomes second nature) and in business, as well as having a tendency toward linguistic preciousness.

Again, though, this is all faffing around the real point: the author purported to know the Ramseys and had to be comfortable in their home. A SFF fitting these criteria and being capable of writing that RN would be pretty easily identified IMO. By the Ramseys themselves to be honest.

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We're discussing two different things, IMO. There is the content of the ransom note, that the RN author can freely choose. The RN author can choose to use lines from western movies or refer to southern regions because he knew who the R's were when he wrote the note. Its not like we can deduce the RN author's culture based on what he was freely able to choose.

OTOH, the words and expressions the author used throughout the note are limited to the RN author's vocabulary. Thats what I'm referring to.


Mr. Ramsey:

Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John! Victory!

S.B.T.C.

Highlighted red are phrases IMO are not really specific to contemporary US-English. That is, if you made any of these remarks in public it would seem pretty odd, IMO.

There aren't any common local slang terms that would indicate the RN was written in the vernacular. The closest thing to slang comes from the use of lines from movies, but those lines aren't the RN author's original material. This suggests the RN author lacked knowledge of the vernacular and needed to borrow some to make the RN appear to be more cultural-specific.

The RN could be written in 'lingua franca', a stripped down English. The slang thrown in from movies and the geographical reference provide a weak localizing effect that would otherwise be missing.

Holdontoyourhat said:

There seems to be a formal, technical, violent yet unemotional rhythm with an international political theme.

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Maybe we should arrest Tom Clancy!

Hmm...wasn't there SOMEONE in the house who liked Tom Clancy books...

These are lines from the RN where the RN author may have stated or implied something regional:

• We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.
• We respect your business but not the country that it serves.
• Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded.
• Use that good, southern common sense of yours.

These are lines from the RN where the RN author may have stated or implied something cultural:

• She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
• If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies.
• You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult.
• Don't try to grow a brain, John.
• Victory!
• S.B.T.C.
  

Here's whats left after these lines are removed, and this is where to look for any specific cultural-regional terms.


Mr. Ramsey:

Listen carefully!
At this time we have your daughter in our possession.
You will withdraw $118,000 from your account.
$100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank.
When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag.
I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery.
The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested.
If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter.
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter.
You will also be denied her remains for proper burial.
The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
If you alert bank authorities, she dies.
If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies.
You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us.
Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.
You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities.
Don't underestimate us, John.
It's up to you now, John!

These are all only very short, very simple sentences that use only very basic English words that can be found in all regions where English is spoken. There is nothing to indicate US-English specifically. The RN author contracted only one word (don't).

yes, someday I believe someone (brother? he was in house & awake) will break and tell what they know when John R. dies...............IMO

SuperDave said:

Maybe we should arrest Tom Clancy!

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Par for the course?

"At this time we have your daughter in our possession."

In US-English, a comma is normal after the preposition beginning a sentence. In British-English, the comma is not required. The RN author did not use a comma.

Holdontoyourhat said:

These are lines from the RN where the RN author may have stated or implied something regional:

• We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.
• We respect your business but not the country that it serves.
• Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded.
• Use that good, southern common sense of yours.

These are lines from the RN where the RN author may have stated or implied something cultural:

• She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
• If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies.
• You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult.
• Don't try to grow a brain, John.
• Victory!
• S.B.T.C.
  

Here's whats left after these lines are removed, and this is where to look for any specific cultural-regional terms.


Mr. Ramsey:

Listen carefully!
At this time we have your daughter in our possession.
You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank.
When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag.
I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery.
The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested.
If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter.
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter.
You will also be denied her remains for proper burial.
The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
If you alert bank authorities, she dies.
If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies.
You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us.
Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.
You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities.
Don't underestimate us, John.
It's up to you now, John!

These are all only very short, very simple sentences that use only very basic English words that can be found in all regions where English is spoken. There is nothing to indicate US-English. The RN author contracted only one word (don't).

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Hiya Hotyh.

Ya .... that's cool, your disection. When I took the rn back to its bare bones by eliminating all the redundancy and 'unnecessary' detail, the rn read as a list.

What about 'stand a chance', 'out smart' , it's up to you ... ? are these phrasings found in all english speaking regions?

Tadpole12 said:

Hiya Hotyh.

Ya .... that's cool, your disection. When I took the rn back to its bare bones by eliminating all the redundancy and 'unnecessary' detail, the rn read as a list.

What about 'stand a chance', 'out smart' , it's up to you ... ? are these phrasings found in all english speaking regions?

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stand a chance

Idioms & Phrases

stand a chance Have a possibility or a hope of success, as in Do you think Mary stands a chance of finishing the marathon? or I think we stand a fair chance of seeing the Queen arrive at Buckingham Palace. This idiom was first recorded in 1796. Also see not have an earthly chance.

92.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/up

up to,
a.as far as or approaching (a certain part, degree, point, etc.): She went wading up to her knees. I am up to the eighth lesson. b.in full realization or attainment of: He worked up to president of the company. c.as many as; to the limit of: The car will seat up to five persons. d.having adequate powers or ability for; capable of; equal to: He didn't think I was up to the job. e.the duty or responsibility of; incumbent upon: It's up to you to break the news to him. f.engaged in; contriving; doing: What have you been up to lately?

Origin:
bef. 900; ME up(pe) (adv.), OE up(p) to a higher position, uppe in a higher position; c. OFris up, OS up, MD up, op, ON upp; akin to OHG ūf (> G auf),
---------------------

Outsmart

Origin:
1925–30; out- + smart (adj.)

Not the only fat cat around and we had and we had a group of individuals calling themselves the Rat Pack...

S.B.T.C. Saved By The Cross along with W.W.J.D What Would Jesus Do..

Beheaded sorry anyone that reads the Bible would know about John the Baptist..

And no one can't say the Ramsey's didn't read so any of this RN can come anywhere...

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences[/ame]
Compounds and hyphens

British English often prefers hyphenated compounds, such as counter-attack, whereas American English discourages the use of hyphens in compounds where there is no compelling reason, so [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterattack"]counterattack[/ame] is much more common.

Heyya Hotyh?

counter-measures? br?