AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #14

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LFlorida said:
jmo - but the "underground adoption agency" wouldn't be so inundated with birth mothers that they would write EJ off because she couldn't line up a sitter.

Dang! For that matter, why would she need a sitter if that's who she was seeing?! [Sorry if I'm missing the obvious on this.]

thx
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No I'm right there with you. She got all gussied up in an outfit too skimpy for the weather, and took risks to ensure she didn't bring Gabriel with her. That just doesn't fit with meeting with an underground adoption agent/baby broker/baby trafficker.
 
kappy50 said:
Geez...watching NG...it oughta be called nancygracetammysmithjacksmithandcouldibe anymoreobnoxiouspersonshow!
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awwwwww. that is so sweet!!
***holds back tears and catches breath***
I am going to save this and play it back to the twins when they are 16!
 
BeanE said:
In 72% of cases, a child's body is found within 200 feet of where they were murdered. If they get Tim Miller down there, I think there's a good chance they could find him, if they determine there's a need for a recovery operation.
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That's interesting!
 
time said:
She had two cell phones didn't she? Also, she could easily have contacted Analisa by some other phone. Did Analisa say that she still had the phone that EJ contacted her on?
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She said on NG tonight that she had lost EJ's number in response to NG's question as to why she didn't contact childrens services. I have no idea how many phones EJ had. I have heard at least 2, the one from AZ and one from San Antonio. We know that TPS had the San Antonio number because she gave it to LM. LE should have those phone numbers at least and been able to look at records. Did she have another phone? It is always possible. They are very cheap and easy to get and not traceable as far as I know. I just don't see her thinking that far ahead. What is the point of her getting a new phone in San Antonio if she is going to call TPS with it? Unless that was part of some plan. I have no idea but as I said, if EJ was so concerned about covering her tracks and not being found, she wasn't smart enough to know not to log into her My Space account and be traced that way.
 
time said:
Hmmm... this is all making me wonder if the Smith's didn't try to get her to come back based on that conversation on the 23rd, when she refused, possibly Tammi then hooked her up with other adoptive parents?

I feel like I'm missing something that I just read, but, it's still possible Elizabeth went out on the 23rd on a job interview, Tammi called and told her Logan was going to find her etc. and that she should come back (covering her behind in the process), she said she wasn't coming back, then Tammi set up someone to pick up Gabriel (hence the post about the underground, was that on the 23rd)? I'm not stuck on this scenario, just seeing if it's another that is feasible.
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Tammi slipped on NG one night and said that Eliz told her she was going on the run and used the word underground on Dec 18.
 
BeanE said:
No they've said all along Eliz texted and then called him.
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Soooo....this happened one day after she spent a sad Christmas holed up in a hotel room with no friend or family. That just can't have helped her rage. I'm thinking she may have thought that with holding Gabriel during Christmas would bring Logan to his knees.

I wonder if she texted him thinking THAT would bring him to his knees and he would call her. When he didn't (dunno that for sure) then she finally called him and raged. Ya know, since done is done, she COULD have just texted him and left it at that, but NO......she wanted attention.

The more we are putting the smaller pieces of the puzzle together, the less hopeful I am.
 
LuLa said:
I remember the date stamp on one of the pix was Dec 26th. I don't think the phone call, the day the babysitter was there, made EJ snap. I believe the babysitter, though. I don't think Gabriel was a happy camper when she was there with him, those couple of hours. His whole routine (if he even had one) was all out of whack, being dosed, more than he should have, with infant Tylenol probably didn't help either. JMO
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I don't think Gabriel felt well, after all he was likely teething, being medicated, had been in a car travelling for days, and was in a strange environment. :(
 
BeanE said:
In 72% of cases, a child's body is found within 200 feet of where they were murdered. If they get Tim Miller down there, I think there's a good chance they could find him, if they determine there's a need for a recovery operation.
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I asked Logan on the facebook page to contact Tim Miller and linked them to thier website not sure if he ever saw it.
 
butterfly1978 said:
I said this last night but I'm going to repeat it.
Its not logical for a person who has just killed someone to text or call someone else and tell them, I really think she did that just to upset Logan.
Next if she was going to kill Gabriel than why would she go through the trouble of hiring a babysitter? Why would she have tried to adopt him out? I'll say it again in those pictures he Doesn't look dirty to me so why would she bother even changing his clothes? also why would she leave AZ to go to TX to kill Gabriel and then wait over a week?
I just dont beleive that EJ killed him, I think they need to focus on find an alive Gabriel. However my fear is that whoever does have him may kill him if they fear they are going to get caught.
Personally I like it better when TS is in the spotlight, her being quite is making me nervous... I hope they did not run off.
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This may not be logical to a normal person, but to a person with severe anger problems plus the assertion that she may have post partem depression, I do think it is logical.. Andrea Yates calling her husband after she killed all of her children rings a bell in my mind.
I don't think she went to TX to kill Gabriel, I think something happened while she was there that made her snap..JMHO
 
BeanE said:
In 72% of cases, a child's body is found within 200 feet of where they were murdered. If they get Tim Miller down there, I think there's a good chance they could find him, if they determine there's a need for a recovery operation.
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does that go for adult murders also??? thinking Susan Powell at the moment
 
mydailyopinions said:
This may not be logical to a normal person, but to a person with severe anger problems plus the assertion that she may have post partem depression, I do think it is logical.. Andrea Yates calling her husband after she killed all of her children rings a bell in my mind.
I don't think she went to TX to kill Gabriel, I think something happened while she was there that made her snap..JMHO
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I see your point, however you stated yourself you DONT think she went to Texas to kill him, why would something have had to happen maybe she went through with her plan and gave him to someone.
 
OneLove said:
Soooo....this happened one day after she spent a sad Christmas holed up in a hotel room with no friend or family. That just can't have helped her rage. I'm thinking she may have thought that with holding Gabriel during Christmas would bring Logan to his knees.

I wonder if she texted him thinking THAT would bring him to his knees and he would call her. When he didn't (dunno that for sure) then she finally called him and raged. Ya know, since done is done, she COULD have just texted him and left it at that, but NO......she wanted attention.

The more we are putting the smaller pieces of the puzzle together, the less hopeful I am.
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Do we know if there was any other contact with Logan @ that time? Or was it just the one text? I guess I have been assuming that it was just the one text, so I wonder if there was any other communication between EJ and LM right before that or right after. Has anyone said one way or another and maybe I missed it. THAT, I would love to know, because I think you brought up a good point about Christmas (which was his 1ST Christmas of course :() and bringing Logan to his knees.
 
I wonder if the can of formula was still there? If it had signs of being used? According to the babysitter it was just opened.... so it should have lasted about 4-6 days depending on size.
 
panthera said:
I don't think Gabriel felt well, after all he was likely teething, being medicated, had been in a car travelling for days, and was in a strange environment. :(
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It makes me sad for him:(
 
panthera said:
I don't think Gabriel felt well, after all he was likely teething, being medicated, had been in a car travelling for days, and was in a strange environment. :(
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Babies also sense negative emotions from their caregivers (or so-called caregivers) and that could have made him fussier and more uncomfortable. Which then made EJ's rage build. Which made the baby fuss harder. And then...
 
DairyGirl said:
In her ad Analisa asked that people contact her by phone, not email. I am sure LE has EJ's phone, or at least her phone number and should have gone through all the numbers and found out who she called and why. They should also have done the pings and had a good idea of her travels. I can't think of one good reason that the baby sitter had to be the one to contact LE. She should have been contacted by LE long before that. LE should also know who she was talking to when the babysitter overheard her. Why on earth would they not have her cell phone records and not contact everyone on them? If she did contact someone about adopting her baby their phone number should be there, too.
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I missed that bit about her asking to contact her by phone.
I have come across ads like that and still emailed and didnt call - just because I am a wierdo and hate the phone. lol

I agree unless EJ and tammi had some secret pre paid phones we dont know of that they have since ditched...it shouldnt be hard to LE to figure out exactly who was talking to who when
 
LFlorida said:
Uh-oh. I probably need to go burn some old photos of my kids.

C'mon now, y'all - stained clothes and dried up residue from a snotty nose? How many of us have not had a child who wore a less than brand-new looking outfits? How many of us have not had a member of our family [regardless of age] with a runny nose over the past month?

[If I'm the only imperfect one on here, I reckon I ought to delete my account and change my name, for fear of DCF coming to take my children away.]
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I found the pics I saw for passionflower:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/New-Pics-81822177.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=0

I'd never criticize websleuthers for not wiping a nose or using a bib, but the majority of caring moms would never leave a child with a new babysitter with dried boogers around his nose or let a brand new holiday/winter sleepsuit get all dirty with orangey yellow (which stains) babyfood especially if they don't have much money and have no other baby clothes available. There were washcloths there, because Gabriel was holding one in a pic. In pic #3, the outfit was dirty and very stained around the neck and it looked like he could have been in it for a couple of days. Not the regular situation or regular mom in this case.
 
Prof said:
BBM I don't think so either, BUT I don't think she randomly ended up in San Antonio either -- in your opinion, how does San Antonio fit in? and what appointment did she have? and why did TS post her infamous message wishing EJ well?
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I don't think there has to be a deep meaning to SA. Maybe she'd always wanted to go there. Maybe she'd been there in the past and had good memories (agitated state, looking for comfort), maybe she'd heard it was a nice place (I know I loved it and have always wanted to go back).

For the appointment, she'd been talking about a job, she was dressed in a manner that was perfect for getting a quick job - dancer/stripper/bar. A job interview at a bar/dance club would be a place she couldn't take Gabriel. She was dressed to meet a man - that fits. She might possibly have simply been turning 1 quick trick to get $$, or in an agitated state, she may have been seeking sexual relief with a fine gentleman. Sometimes people who become overly agitated and angry seek relief, to calm down, via sex... sex of the more unusual variety can fit in here too. She's a risk taker. Risk takers often like risky sex. (No I'm not an expert. :) )

TS's message wishing Eliz well was to try to throw Logan off to what they were doing - trying to 'change Eliz's jurisdiction', do whatever needed to be done to get around his refusal to sign the papers, or maybe just to tick Logan off. TS was in a snit - she wanted that baby and Logan wasn't following the program.
 
mydailyopinions said:
This may not be logical to a normal person, but to a person with severe anger problems plus the assertion that she may have post partem depression, I do think it is logical.. Andrea Yates calling her husband after she killed all of her children rings a bell in my mind.
I don't think she went to TX to kill Gabriel, I think something happened while she was there that made her snap..JMHO
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BBMYears ago here, a woman killed 4 of her kids, then called the husband and said he had to come home something awful happened to all his kids.......he walked in the door, she shot him and then herself.........people snap!
I agree, Eliz went to TX to give Gabriel to Smith's, it all back fired and in her state of mind and rage, holidays, she took it all out on Gabriel. MOO
 
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