Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

Where Does Evil Come From?

What drives a person to commit unspeakable acts of evil and depravity? We turned to forensic psychologist Stephen Diamond, author of the Evil Deeds blog on Psychology Today for the answer:


Typically it does involve some kind of trauma during childhood. Some kind of deprivation, some kind of neglect, some kind of abandonment. What we refer to psychoanalytically as severe narcissistic wounding, where the child’s basic needs for recognition of who they are and acceptance of who they are - and for love – are not met.

For example, Diamond says, you take someone who had a traumatic childhood like Charles Manson; he had an alcoholic mother who abandoned him several times and tried to sell him. He spent time living in the streets. Eventually a person like that can develop a rage around how they’re being treated.

In my opinion, it is this anger that festers over time, that turns into resentment, that turns into embitterment, that turns into rage. It is this rage that underlies what we call -- what you’re referring to -- as evil, or evil behavior or evil deeds. That's really, to me, the driving force in violence.

Okay … but what about someone who didn’t have an extremely neglectful childhood. If Juran van der Sloot turns out to be guilty, he would seem to go against that idea. He came from an intact family with professionally successful parents. Diamond said:

This idea of narcissistic wounding is still there. It’s still possible because narcissistic wounding is something that can be much more subtle. In other words, the trauma is more subtle, so if a child is in certain ways not accepted for who he is in a family, is put down, is criticized constantly or is not given enough attention or affection. Then this is a form of narcissistic wounding. And this can lead a lot of anger. And rage.


more at the link:
http://news.discovery.com/human/where-does-evil-come-from.html

LiveLaughLuv said:

Where Does Evil Come From?

What drives a person to commit unspeakable acts of evil and depravity? We turned to forensic psychologist Stephen Diamond, author of the Evil Deeds blog on Psychology Today for the answer:


Typically it does involve some kind of trauma during childhood. Some kind of deprivation, some kind of neglect, some kind of abandonment. What we refer to psychoanalytically as severe narcissistic wounding, where the child’s basic needs for recognition of who they are and acceptance of who they are - and for love – are not met.

For example, Diamond says, you take someone who had a traumatic childhood like Charles Manson; he had an alcoholic mother who abandoned him several times and tried to sell him. He spent time living in the streets. Eventually a person like that can develop a rage around how they’re being treated.

In my opinion, it is this anger that festers over time, that turns into resentment, that turns into embitterment, that turns into rage. It is this rage that underlies what we call -- what you’re referring to -- as evil, or evil behavior or evil deeds. That's really, to me, the driving force in violence.

Okay … but what about someone who didn’t have an extremely neglectful childhood. If Juran van der Sloot turns out to be guilty, he would seem to go against that idea. He came from an intact family with professionally successful parents. Diamond said:

This idea of narcissistic wounding is still there. It’s still possible because narcissistic wounding is something that can be much more subtle. In other words, the trauma is more subtle, so if a child is in certain ways not accepted for who he is in a family, is put down, is criticized constantly or is not given enough attention or affection. Then this is a form of narcissistic wounding. And this can lead a lot of anger. And rage.


more at the link:
http://news.discovery.com/human/where-does-evil-come-from.html

Click to expand...

I probably posted this on another site but it was reported JVDS was at Den Dolder- Altrecht, Mental Health Institute, Division OFP, Den Dolder, BN, the Netherlands.

and when I looked it up I got this documentation.

" Abstract
Previous studies have suggested that offenders have lowered verbal intelligence compared to their performance intelligence. This phenomenon has been linked traditionally to childhood risk factors (e.g. deficient education, abuse and neglect). Substantial discrepancies between performance intelligence quotients (PIQ) and verbal intelligence quotients (VIQ), however, might also point to neurobiological impairments which may be associated with specific types of criminal behaviour. From the files of 133 male hospitalized offenders, PIQ, VIQ, full scale IQ (FSIQ) scores and Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) scores were derived, along with information about their criminal histories. PIQ over VIQ discrepancies were most pronounced in sexual offenders, particularly in those who had committed sexual crimes against adult victims. Furthermore, PIQ as well as PIQ higher than VIQ discrepancies correlated modestly, but significantly, with PCL-R scores. The results suggest that lower verbal compared to visual and spatial abilities may be connected specifically to egocentric and narcissistic personality traits which, in turn, may be involved in raising the risk of sexual offending.
Keywords: Intelligence; crime; sexual offending; psychopathy "


http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a916676910~db=all~jumptype=rss

so,...since I read he checked in voluntarily for two weeks ( no substantiation of that- according to other sources he was using the internet in Thailand, and photographed in Thailand at the same time ) I wondered if this was the facility that Van der Stratten suggested to the family in 2005.

and if this is representative of their specialty.

selena said:

One of his poker accounts were frozen, Party Poker? or maybe Pokerstars, someone on a poker board posted this but I don't have the link but can get it, to the tune of $8700.00, may have been earlier this year, not sure, but this would have prompted him to look for more money in other places- he may have been banned on that site- and I know he stated he had a gambling debt ( part of declaration where he says Uri Geller gave him $25,000 for an interview, disputed by Geller ) for $6,000 so maybe part of the money he actually collected from the sting went to either the poker site ( ? to pay off the bad debt ?) or to a house account at a casino in Aruba where he owed money.

this would leave him with much less than $25,000 for traveling as part of the extortion monies were paid in cash ( $10,000) and the rest was wired.
I have to think the account into which the additional $15,000 was wired was frozen.

...and he may have had Stephany's cash and deposited it into one of his accounts the same day to find out he was locked out when he tried to cash it out. I doubt if he got her pin # but that hasn't come up yet...

I looked up ATM limits an found this on a travel board although JVDS may not have had access to this bank-

" in Peru there is a Peruvian bank called BCP, which allow all the credit cards around the world, the maximum ammount of money for cash is 400.00 Dollars a day..."

that and an ATM called GlobalNET from Interbank, accessible from drugstores and other travel friendly locations.

so many options...

Click to expand...

Selena, I'm not following this. :waitasec: Who would have frozen this account? Those that he owed a gambling debt to? Would they have the authority to freeze this account? And how would they have known about the recently extorted money being deposited into the account? Help me out here.

selena said:

One of his poker accounts were frozen, Party Poker? or maybe Pokerstars, someone on a poker board posted this but I don't have the link but can get it, to the tune of $8700.00, may have been earlier this year, not sure, but this would have prompted him to look for more money in other places- he may have been banned on that site- and I know he stated he had a gambling debt ( part of declaration where he says Uri Geller gave him $25,000 for an interview, disputed by Geller ) for $6,000 so maybe part of the money he actually collected from the sting went to either the poker site ( ? to pay off the bad debt ?) or to a house account at a casino in Aruba where he owed money.

this would leave him with much less than $25,000 for traveling as part of the extortion monies were paid in cash ( $10,000) and the rest was wired.
I have to think the account into which the additional $15,000 was wired was frozen.

...and he may have had Stephany's cash and deposited it into one of his accounts the same day to find out he was locked out when he tried to cash it out. I doubt if he got her pin # but that hasn't come up yet...

I looked up ATM limits an found this on a travel board although JVDS may not have had access to this bank-

" in Peru there is a Peruvian bank called BCP, which allow all the credit cards around the world, the maximum ammount of money for cash is 400.00 Dollars a day..."

that and an ATM called GlobalNET from Interbank, accessible from drugstores and other travel friendly locations.

so many options...

Click to expand...

BBM
Thank you. I do remember seeing a video and also some posting that he and another person had their accounts frozen for reasons of cheating together against others. I'll see if I can find that but will have to wade deep since it has been months. However anything, any reasons that come out of Joran's mouth is a good reason to doubt

suzihawk said:

Selena, I'm not following this. :waitasec: Who would have frozen this account? Those that he owed a gambling debt to? Would they have the authority to freeze this account? And how would they have known about the recently extorted money being deposited into the account? Help me out here.

Click to expand...

I'm not Selena, but I would think that whomever owns the Poker sites.

nums24 said:

Peru: A woman visits Van der Sloot twice a week, prison workers say

http://www.livinginperu.com/news-12...s-van-der-sloot-twice-week-prison-workers-say

snipped:

His mother has not come to Peru, but a mysterious woman visits Dutch national Joran van der Sloot at Castro Castro prison twice a week, according to prison workers quoted by a local daily.

Click to expand...

Someone, please, please, please tell me I'm hallucinating!!!! This article also says that Joran requested curtains for his windows.:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

His request was denied, but can you imagine??????????

LiveLaughLuv said:

Where Does Evil Come From?

What drives a person to commit unspeakable acts of evil and depravity? We turned to forensic psychologist Stephen Diamond, author of the Evil Deeds blog on Psychology Today for the answer:


Typically it does involve some kind of trauma during childhood. Some kind of deprivation, some kind of neglect, some kind of abandonment. What we refer to psychoanalytically as severe narcissistic wounding, where the child’s basic needs for recognition of who they are and acceptance of who they are - and for love – are not met.

For example, Diamond says, you take someone who had a traumatic childhood like Charles Manson; he had an alcoholic mother who abandoned him several times and tried to sell him. He spent time living in the streets. Eventually a person like that can develop a rage around how they’re being treated.

In my opinion, it is this anger that festers over time, that turns into resentment, that turns into embitterment, that turns into rage. It is this rage that underlies what we call -- what you’re referring to -- as evil, or evil behavior or evil deeds. That's really, to me, the driving force in violence.

Okay … but what about someone who didn’t have an extremely neglectful childhood. If Juran van der Sloot turns out to be guilty, he would seem to go against that idea. He came from an intact family with professionally successful parents. Diamond said:

This idea of narcissistic wounding is still there. It’s still possible because narcissistic wounding is something that can be much more subtle. In other words, the trauma is more subtle, so if a child is in certain ways not accepted for who he is in a family, is put down, is criticized constantly or is not given enough attention or affection. Then this is a form of narcissistic wounding. And this can lead a lot of anger. And rage.


more at the link:
http://news.discovery.com/human/where-does-evil-come-from.html

Click to expand...

Thank you for the article. So much makes sense.
Where I was once a strong advocate of Anita's honesty in her spoken words, I have become quite skeptical. I suppose studying her words, actions, and above all, her connections and past requests that her friends give out info which has been contrary to what LE, or even some reputable media have said, have given me a totally different insight.
I find her dishonest in most things she has said, especially the joys of Joran as a youngster. Sure there are many fmaily pictures that the people have posed for that seems to say there's alot of love there, but pictures and posing is what it sometimes is. For example, one picture she allowed on the Net where the family is all smiley behind Joran as he sits and cuddles the family dog. That was likely meant to allay the 'rumor' that Joran could actually kill a dog.

nums24 said:

Peru: A woman visits Van der Sloot twice a week, prison workers say

http://www.livinginperu.com/news-12...s-van-der-sloot-twice-week-prison-workers-say

snipped:

His mother has not come to Peru, but a mysterious woman visits Dutch national Joran van der Sloot at Castro Castro prison twice a week, according to prison workers quoted by a local daily.

Click to expand...

The translated Peruvian account describes the mystery woman as a "swarthy skinned woman" allegedly sent by his mother. Hmmm...

"Among the orders denied to Joran van der Sloot is the curtains to his cell, where he confessed, is dying of cold at night."

Awww...

http://translate.google.com/transla...-visita-joran-van-der-sloot-penal&sl=es&tl=en

Cottages said:

Anyone else notice that what I presume was his mini confession given the day before his full confession, didn't match up with the full confession that I, also presume, he gave the next day?

JVS: "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life... she didn't have any right. I went to her and I hit her. She was scared, we argued and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."

This is not what he said later? Later he says that she hit him first, he responded with a blow, she was losing consciousness, so he strangled her then smothered her.

In the first version, she is fully conscious after he hit her...scared and arguing with him...running for the door.

Was the first version just a news bite? Confession just a summation? Interesting?

Click to expand...

That is very interesting Cottages. I think we had determined from discussing the two different female lawyers that represented him during the two days he was interrogated that he had been taken in for interrogation with his public defender on the 5th of June and in his subsequent statement on June 6th he claimed that he was too tired on the day before to finish his statement and didn't want to talk. I think we also determined that his public defender had told him not to talk and to wait to present his case before the judge. This information can be found in the first part of his statement. Perhaps our poster DanielABC can look over that part and help us out.

So I'm guessing that if the original "I didn't want to do it, the girl intruded into my private life..." comments were actually made by Joran, it may have been on June 5th during his first attempt at a statement. Perhaps his public defender lawyer cut him off and told him not to say anything else because she knew those comments were setting him up for the maximum sentence. Then she may have explained the different types of charges and penalties and he came up with a new version the next day that mitigated his responsibility. Just guessing.

MOO

marikesh said:

Thank you for the article. So much makes sense.
Where I was once a strong advocate of Anita's honesty in her spoken words, I have become quite skeptical. I suppose studying her words, actions, and above all, her connections and past requests that her friends give out info which has been contrary to what LE, or even some reputable media have said, have given me a totally different insight.
I find her dishonest in most things she has said, especially the joys of Joran as a youngster. Sure there are many fmaily pictures that the people have posed for that seems to say there's alot of love there, but pictures and posing is what it sometimes is. For example, one picture she allowed on the Net where the family is all smiley behind Joran as he sits and cuddles the family dog. That was likely meant to allay the 'rumor' that Joran could actually kill a dog.

Click to expand...

Interesting thing about lovey family photos. Aren't most photos taken to capture and display the happy, celebratory times? I don't know many who take or display pictures that feature the family dysfunctions.

suzihawk said:

Selena, I'm not following this. :waitasec: Who would have frozen this account? Those that he owed a gambling debt to? Would they have the authority to freeze this account? And how would they have known about the recently extorted money being deposited into the account? Help me out here.

Click to expand...

He had an account online, poker winnings were frozen- how I do not know, but he wrote a letter of complaint that he was owed $8700 and was going to report the site to someone in authority- his gaming activity was suspect and he couldn't get the money he "won" online- or it wasn't accounted that he was a winner- have to check this out to see if the money was virtual money or on his stats, there was another player involved and she was mentioned in his letter.
If it was actual money he won from players and was in dispute maybe he had to pay them back. Online poker is kind of sketchy- there are disclaimers about legalities and so forth when you enter the gaming part of the site, so this is my theory that the $8700 debt was actual and not virtual and it had to be repaid by him. I don't know if he did that.

He said he had a poker debt of $6,000 that had to be repaid ( in his declaration ) that came from the $25,000 he said he obtained from Uri Geller for an interview prior to the sting operation. Geller goes on the record that he never paid him that amount- but Joran declred this ( I will find the document and post it).

so if he had only $10,000 cash and took it all to Colombia it would have been declared, unless he deposited it beforehand when he got his ticket to Bogota. If he paid off $6,000 before he entered the country in a gambling debt to an Aruban casino- or online- he had much less than the $10,000 cash from the sting before he arrived in Peru. He arrived in Peru on May 14th.

...and he is staying at the cheapest possible place close to the casino but still in a fashionable area where he can mingle with the other players, visit bars, etc.

If we was able to access his bank account in Peru ( all including the wired money ) he possibly wouldn't have been broke on the 30th. This means he probably used Stephany's cash because the account he had only allowed him XX per day, and the larger amount he expected to have available that was wired was not available. If he put her cash winnings into his account it probably wasn't available- someone in her family probably froze the account when she went missing.

ATM robberies are not uncommon in Lima. Maybe the cash was frozen automatically as a precaution at that bank or by protocol given the incidence of robberies at ATM's.

hope this answer is better

suzihawk said:

Selena, I'm not following this. :waitasec: Who would have frozen this account? Those that he owed a gambling debt to? Would they have the authority to freeze this account? And how would they have known about the recently extorted money being deposited into the account? Help me out here.

Click to expand...

If you're talking about the $15,000 wire to a Netherlands a/c. I think the FBI or "authorities" may have been able to freeze this a/c once the extortion charges were filed. Not sure, just MO. Remember we found out about this while he was on the lamb. If they (FBI) were keeping somewhat of an eye on him and then he turns around and botches their sting and is on the run.....why not shut down his purse strings to make it difficult for him to run/hide--especially with murder charges prolly pending ??

suzihawk said:

Interesting thing about lovey family photos. Aren't most photos taken to capture and display the happy, celebratory times? I don't know many who take or display pictures that feature the family dysfunctions.

Click to expand...

Lol on me. I didn't explain myself well I suppose. Yes, one very rarely sees pictures showing a dysfunctional family. I guess what I meant is that many pictures posted seem to have come from the family album which we generally would not have access to, unless someone wanted us to have them. Somehow they escaped the family album to "show us".
Unless you understand me it may not make sense, however I cannot fathom energy to "act". If I'm happy I show that and if I'm not, don't take my picture, lol.

selena said:

One of his poker accounts were frozen, Party Poker? or maybe Pokerstars, someone on a poker board posted this but I don't have the link but can get it, to the tune of $8700.00, may have been earlier this year, not sure, but this would have prompted him to look for more money in other places- he may have been banned on that site-

Click to expand...

IIRC he was accused of cloning chips or something of the sort? I don't gamble online, so I'm not quite sure. But it seems to me the account was frozen and he was ranting (also on line) about what cheats they were. From friends of mine specifically in the biz of monitoring online fraud...once an account shows a red flag they pay special attention and then of course can prove what they say. Sounded to me as though he was cheating.

LiveLaughLuv said:

Where Does Evil Come From?

What drives a person to commit unspeakable acts of evil and depravity? We turned to forensic psychologist Stephen Diamond, author of the Evil Deeds blog on Psychology Today for the answer:


Typically it does involve some kind of trauma during childhood. Some kind of deprivation, some kind of neglect, some kind of abandonment. What we refer to psychoanalytically as severe narcissistic wounding, where the child’s basic needs for recognition of who they are and acceptance of who they are - and for love – are not met.

For example, Diamond says, you take someone who had a traumatic childhood like Charles Manson; he had an alcoholic mother who abandoned him several times and tried to sell him. He spent time living in the streets. Eventually a person like that can develop a rage around how they’re being treated.

In my opinion, it is this anger that festers over time, that turns into resentment, that turns into embitterment, that turns into rage. It is this rage that underlies what we call -- what you’re referring to -- as evil, or evil behavior or evil deeds. That's really, to me, the driving force in violence.

Okay … but what about someone who didn’t have an extremely neglectful childhood. If Juran van der Sloot turns out to be guilty, he would seem to go against that idea. He came from an intact family with professionally successful parents. Diamond said:

This idea of narcissistic wounding is still there. It’s still possible because narcissistic wounding is something that can be much more subtle. In other words, the trauma is more subtle, so if a child is in certain ways not accepted for who he is in a family, is put down, is criticized constantly or is not given enough attention or affection. Then this is a form of narcissistic wounding. And this can lead a lot of anger. And rage.


more at the link:
http://news.discovery.com/human/where-does-evil-come-from.html

Click to expand...

In response to your post, Peck believes there should be a new diagnosis for evil:


A proposed new scientific definition of evil In addition to the abrogation of responsibilities characterizing all personality disorders, this one would specifically be distinguished by: (a) consistent destructive, scapegoating behavior, which may often be quite subtle. (b) excessive, albeit usually covert, intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury. c) pronounced concern with a public image and self-image of respectability, contributing to a stability of life-style but also to pretentiousness and denial of hateful feelings or vengeful motives. d) intellectual deviousness, with an increased likelihood of a mild schizophrenic-like disturbance of thinking at times of stress. But to get such a classification is probably not realistic. In that regard, it is noteworthy how difficult it is to examine evil people in depth, because it is their nature to avoid the light. Denying their imperfection, the evil flee both self-examination and any situation in which they might be closely examined by others.

http://samredman.com/peopleofthelie/

From Joran's confession
snipped-

0. Where does the money come you left the country?

- I had $ 25,000 with me when I walked in Peru , but I have not declared. I Chile I pinned on June 2 $ 500. That was my Click2Pay account, an organization that facilitates payment via the Inter net . I have a pass but has remained in Chile with my belongings.

41. Where did that $ 25,000 come from and why has this not shown?

- I made a TV show about Inter net fraud, and for that information I received $25,000 from Uri Geller from the Netherlands . First $ 10,000 in cash and then $ 15,000 in my bank account of SNS Bank in the Netherlands . I also have an ABN account. Furthermore I had received $ 9,000 for providing information about the Holloway case one Quinsy John Kelly. A week before I arrived in Peru I had won $ 6,000 in casinos in Aruba . Moreover, I have some poker accounts. I travel around the world with a lot of money playing poker and I am never on. I do not see why I should be doing. It takes only time that questions about the origin of the money.

42. If you've already committed a serious offense or you've been involved? If so, why and where?

- The only event was the Holloway case in Aruba five years ago, for various suspicions.


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...r-sloots-confession-read-entire-document-here

marikesh said:

Lol on me. I didn't explain myself well I suppose. Yes, one very rarely sees pictures showing a dysfunctional family. I guess what I meant is that many pictures posted seem to have come from the family album which we generally would not have access to, unless someone wanted us to have them. Somehow they escaped the family album to "show us".
Unless you understand me it may not make sense, however I cannot fathom energy to "act". If I'm happy I show that and if I'm not, don't take my picture, lol.

Click to expand...

No, you explained it perfectly! I was just 'funning' you a little and affirming the fact that, of course, the suspect's family (and friends) would post pictures portraying the family in the best possible light; showing that all was well within the family dynamics.

Thanks, Selena! For explaining your line of thinking a little better for me. And for all the digging you do. Appreciate it!

(Going for more coffee so I can keep up a little better.)

http://www.youtube.com/user/AUAJORANBKK

Hmm..Interesting find. It does appear that is Joran
=======
Pokertime Scandal 3 From: AUAJORANBKK | March 07, 2010 | 60 views Pokertime has blocked my account and accused me of chip dumping with a player named Diva002. I think Pokertime is a scam and are stealing my money, luckily I have the videos where you can see this is clearly not the case. My computer records all of my poker games for my own educational purposes so I can go back and review and I have hours of video. I have just under 8500$ on the account and they refuse to unlock it. I hoped someone could help me with this matter and get the word out for no one to play there. You can contact me at: checkmate87@hotmail.com I am willing to share my emails back and forth with the floormangers there as well and I will go see a family friend who is an attorney on Monday. There is almost never anyone playing on the site except for at the .10/20 cent limits and bellow and they keep putting the blame on Microgaming. I did some research on google and it seems they have been involved in scandals in the past where poker players lost all their bankroll so everyone be aware and DO NOT play on Pokertime. If someone has advice on what I should do and if Diva002 somehow watches this please contact me. I want to know the correct legal steps to take. Thank you. I will upload the videos between me and Diva002.
============

Profile Name:JoranChannel Views:85Total Upload Views:142Age:22Joined:February 24, 2010Last Sign In:2 hours agoSubscribers:3Watever I feel like About Me: Hi,
My name is Joran van der Sloot and I am a poker player and entrepreneur. I like to think big and outside of the box and I am as left as you can be when it comes to politics. If I would have to describe myself as an animal it would be a snake however I want to be a lion and one day I will be a lion. I like rap, hip hop, reggeaton, rub-a-bud as well as many other types of music but those are my favorite. I think their is a lesson to be learned in every path you decide to take in your life but one thing I am sure of is that you need to stand up for what you believe in and what you want to do and you will be successful in your life. I do not have a real job but am a professional poker player I have been playing poker since way before the poker boom and consider myself to have a huge advantage over most players. I also give poker lessons as well as advice about poker hands and strategy. If you wish to get help with your game you can contact me at checkmate87@hotmail.com. Hometown:Aruba, NoordCountry:ArubaOccupation:I studied IBMS which is a business study as well as IB which is also business in Thailand for 2 years. I however do not have a job and play poker as a profession.Companies:Sawadee CupSchools:International School of Aruba, Rangsit University.Hobbies:Music, Soccer, Tennis, Poker, Television, Movies, Nightlife, Traveling and many more things but those are my passions.Movies:Breaking Bad, Entourage, Californication, CSI, Law and Order, Pulp Fiction, City of Ghosts.Music:Lil Wayne, Drake, and the rest of the Young Money Crew.Books:Have not read that many books in my life but if I have to choose its Ace on the River by Barry Greenstine.

suzihawk said:

Thanks, Selena! For explaining your line of thinking a little better for me. And for all the digging you do. Appreciate it!

(Going for more coffee so I can keep up a little better.)

Click to expand...

no, you were correct the first time....I talk the same way I type...no room for a breath of air