The ransom note - Patsy or intruder? It's all in the detail.

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Ames said:
He also said that her wrist were tied closely together, and in reality, there was more than 15 inches..or was it 17 inches....of cord between them. Either way, thats not CLOSE in MY book. Its MORE than a foot!!!!
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and the loose loop fell off when removed,despite JR saying it was tied tightly.why would he lie? I think he got afraid it would indeed appear to be a sexual bondage situation w. the ligatures,not knowing if anything indicating sexual abuse would show up at autopsy.I don't think he and Patsy knew the blood was there in her underwear.It obv. came out after she was dressed in the oversized underwear,and wasn't noticed.So it was easier to lie,and attempt to make it seem that tightly bound ligatures would indicate someone was trying to remove her from the home.I think he chickened out on the bondage situation,just like he did with removing her from the house. ..(?) on that last part.for some reason,they didn't follow through with it.
 
BOESP said:
Items 1-6 could be said for a lot of people and "Victory," in my experience, is more often used by church-going people in the South than a foreign faction, small or not. S.B.T.C. is also used in in many church groups for "Saved By The Cross."
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bing !! I think so,too.Patsy just used something familiar to her,whatever came to mind when she wanted to sign it w/ an acronym.Much like when someone chooses a word or number familiar to them when creating a password or PIN no.
 
BOESP said:
I also wouldn't go so far as to say who was or was not investigated if I didn't have access to that information.
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I'll bet that while the R's were tested and retested, and 'people of interest' were tested and retested, there were never any suspects outside this country. This course of the investigation oddly went in the opposite direction as indicated by the RN author, even though there was no evidence that what the RN author stated was false.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
There was no 'decision' made by the FBI that the RN was bogus. Do you have a source for this 'decision'?
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Sorry, I won't do your homework for you. The opinions expressed by the FBI are in Thomas's book and scattered here on this board and a dozen other JonBenet boards.

I won't play semantics games either. Call it decision, opinion, finding, or pick a word that suits you.

Your posts remind me so much of posts made by someone I met over on Crime Library. :D
 
JMO8778 said:
how cute,I didn't know all of that.
I have a calendar on my wall of that breed,only reason being petsmart had them on sale at the beginning of this yr,it was the only one left and I needed a calendar.lol.you should see the month of August that I'm looking at right now...he looks like a fuzzy powder puff poodle !
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Well, I guess my point was not only was Jacques named a French name, he also had connections to France, including his breed name. Please excuse my rambling off topic -- bichons are near and dear to my heart (yes, I do have a heart) :blowkiss:

P.S. Please ... never tell a bichon he or she looks like a poodle. Their feelings are easily hurt and they are easily insulted. :)
 
JMO8778 said:
bing !! I think so,too.Patsy just used something familiar to her,whatever came to mind when she wanted to sign it w/ an acronym.Much like when someone chooses a word or number familiar to them when creating a password or PIN no.
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I give "She Bears The Cross" partial weight but I am more partial to "She Bears The Crown," a crown of victory [she] shall wear (it's an old southern gospel hymn and you may have heard of it).

Maybe it's someone's initials. Who knows. It may mean nothing but the word "Victory," in my experience, refers to a spiritual experience.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
I'll bet that while the R's were tested and retested, and 'people of interest' were tested and retested, there were never any suspects outside this country. This course of the investigation oddly went in the opposite direction as indicated by the RN author, even though there was no evidence that what the RN author stated was false.
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I'm sure I've misunderstood you once again because there was a lot in that ransom note that was false.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
There was no 'decision' made by the FBI that the RN was bogus. Do you have a source for this 'decision'?
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On the A&E Investigative Reports program, which aired on Aug 28, 2000, F.B.I. agent Ron Walker stated that when the F.B.I. looked at the note that morning they said it was phoney and that the child most likely would be recovered as a homicide victim. (There is no transcript for this, as far as I know although I do have it on tape and remember this part quite well.)


-Tea
 
icedtea4me said:
On the A&E Investigative Reports program, which aired on Aug 28, 2000, F.B.I. agent Ron Walker stated that when the F.B.I. looked at the note that morning they said it was phoney and that the child most likely would be recovered as a homicide victim. (There is no transcript for this, as far as I know although I do have it on tape and remember this part quite well.)


-Tea
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yes,exactly,and around the 10th anniv. of her death,I think it was on court tv...I saw him say he'd said 'you're going to be finding her body',after reading the note.
 
BOESP said:
I give "She Bears The Cross" partial weight but I am more partial to "She Bears The Crown," a crown of victory [she] shall wear (it's an old southern gospel hymn and you may have heard of it).

Maybe it's someone's initials. Who knows. It may mean nothing but the word "Victory," in my experience, refers to a spiritual experience.
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could be,yes,I've heard the hymn,and yes,I take Victory to mean something religious as well.
I don't think I've ever heard of a SFF yelling VICTORY ! they would likely yell something in their own language.someone correct me if I'm wrong.can we do a poll on that? How many SFF's have you heard yell 'Victory'? raise your hand. (just kidding).
 
BOESP said:
Well, I guess my point was not only was Jacques named a French name, he also had connections to France, including his breed name. Please excuse my rambling off topic -- bichons are near and dear to my heart (yes, I do have a heart) :blowkiss:
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I never thought you didn't have a heart :)
it's an extremely cute dog,I flipped it over to Sept. and that's one's just as cute,sitting in a little child's beach chair w. an umbrella over his head.

P.S. Please ... never tell a bichon he or she looks like a poodle. Their feelings are easily hurt and they are easily insulted. :)
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shhhhhh ...ok..I won't tell :) I don't know much about dogs,really.I have 4 cats,2 guinea pigs,one hamster,some fish and a hermit crab,but never a dog.I like them, but I have never slept well my whole life,so it would bother me greatly if one barked at night.and my husb. said he didn't want to have to worry about cleaning up the yard bf mowing.(nuff said there..lol).the cats are kind of king of the house anyway.(I own the Lion King of cats,or so he thinks he is,lol).
 
icedtea4me said:
On the A&E Investigative Reports program, which aired on Aug 28, 2000, F.B.I. agent Ron Walker stated that when the F.B.I. looked at the note that morning they said it was phoney and that the child most likely would be recovered as a homicide victim. (There is no transcript for this, as far as I know although I do have it on tape and remember this part quite well.)


-Tea
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The whole 'FBI decision' that the RN was bogus is based on a knee-jerk remark made the same day, by one agent, even before any forensics were done? Please tell me its not so.

I figured there had to be a report or something, that all this 'RN is bogus' is based on. It looks like the RN is back, as it has not been determined to be 'bogus' by any concerted effort at all.
 
JMO8778 said:
could be,yes,I've heard the hymn,and yes,I take Victory to mean something religious as well.
I don't think I've ever heard of a SFF yelling VICTORY ! they would likely yell something in their own language.someone correct me if I'm wrong.can we do a poll on that? How many SFF's have you heard yell 'Victory'? raise your hand. (just kidding).
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The expression "Victory" and its 'revolutionary connotation harked back to foreign powers,' according to Clint VanZandt. He made no religious reference.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The expression "Victory" and its 'revolutionary connotation harked back to foreign powers,' according to Clint VanZandt. He made no religious reference.
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I bet Patsy did.

even Patsy said the note looks like a woman wrote it.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Like what?
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How about she wasn't really kidnapped and taken from the home. She wasn't being watched since no one could see her in a closed room without light or windows. The Ramseys didn't follow instructions yet she wasn't beheaded as the "kidnapper" said she would be. The "kidnapper" never called the Ramseys. The "kidnappers" never really held their "daughter." JonBenet was dead before Patsy called 911 (actually dead a long, long time before that based on the state of rigor mortis noted by detectives). The "kidnapper" didn't allow John time to be rested. Her body wasn't withheld for proper burial.

I'm not too sure, based on the things you are saying, that you have read much about this case. You'll find some great information at www.acandyrose.com and www.realsundancekid.com.

Until then, good luck with your research.
 
BOESP said:
How about she wasn't really kidnapped and taken from the home. She wasn't being watched since no one could see her in a closed room without light or windows. The Ramseys didn't follow instructions yet she wasn't beheaded as the "kidnapper" said she would be. The "kidnapper" never called the Ramseys. The "kidnappers" never really held their "daughter." JonBenet was dead before Patsy called 911 (actually dead a long, long time before that based on the state of rigor mortis noted by detectives). The "kidnapper" didn't allow John time to be rested. Her body wasn't withheld for proper burial.

I'm not too sure, based on the things you are saying, that you have read much about this case. You'll find some great information at www.acandyrose.com and www.realsundancekid.com.

Until then, good luck with your research.
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This is just one claim after another. As if all these things could ever really be deduced! 'We have your daughter' doesn't mean she's taken from the home. How do you know she wasnt being watched? How do you know there was no light? How do you know that at the time of the writing, the perp did not intend to behead her if JR didn't follow instructions? The kidnapper only wanted to distract JR while they left the area. Why do you think they warned JR not to call the cops? That was the whole gist of the RN!!

Its obvious the RN was ultimately used by the perps to delay the finding of JBR for hours and hours, while the perps left the area. Thats why they put it on the staircase. It worked, as JBR was not found until the afternoon. Without the RN she would've been found sooner.

The RN could've been originally intended to extort JR. Its very possible this was a botched kidnapping attempt.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Why do you think they warned JR not to call the cops? That was the whole gist of the RN!!
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Are you referring to "Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded"? The cops were called at 5:52 a.m., yet JonBenet had already been dead for at least six hours at that point due to the full rigor she was in at 1 p.m.

Its very possible this was a botched kidnapping attempt
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How so? What do you think prevented him/them from getting her out of the house?


-Tea
 
If the "kidnappers" were holding JBR IN THE HOUSE as the parents (supposedly) read the note just before 6am (according to PR herself)- and knowing the Rs called 911 right after AND the first officer (Officer French) arrived a few miniutes after that- by then it was light out- HOW did the "kidnappers get out of the house without being seen? If they had climbed out the window in the train room, there would have been footprints outside. There were none, and the spider web was undisturbed. The web was on TOP of the grate. Coming up from the basement to the outside (as opposed to climbing in that way) it would be impossible to see it, and so to avoid breaking it. (though I believe that would be impossible to avoid.) If they broke the web getting in- no spider in a Colorado December would remake it in time for LE to see it.
If the Rs got home around 10pm, and JBR had time to eat the pineapple 2 hours before she died (at around midnight) plus PR claims to have stayed up a while doing last minute things for the trip, AND JR admits to staying up a while with his son- that doesn't give the kidnappers much time to get her and then hold her.
 
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