Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias - What do you believe?

Maricopa County has long been a hotbed of judicial controversy and court cases seem to get bogged down and complicated by "the Sheriff Wars". It's possible that Jodi's lawyers will try to utilize the deficiencies of the investigative system to undermine her prosecution. I don't think that there is any chance that it will stop her conviction, but it might slow the proceedings.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/09/arizona.tough.sheriff/index.html?video=true&hpt=T2

Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio calls himself "America's toughest sheriff." He is famous for creating a tent city jail in the Arizona desert; for providing pink underwear for inmates; for bragging that he spends more to feed his dog than a prisoner in his jail.
This year he has made national headlines for his tough enforcement of Arizona's anti-illegal immigration laws and for his vocal support for a controversial new immigration law that takes effect at the end of July.
But the 77-year-old lawman is himself the subject of serious allegations of abuse of power. Arpaio's critics say he has a long history of launching bogus criminal investigations against political opponents and anyone else who gets in his way.

This year a federal grand jury started looking into the allegations.
Former Maricopa County School Superintendent Sandra Dowling says what happened to her is a case in point.

Dowling says was locked in a political battle with some members of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors over school district funds when the sheriff's SWAT team came in the dead of night to search her home. Dowling was charged with stealing money from a school for homeless students. There were 25 felony counts in all.

"Never could I have imagined what a nightmare was waiting ahead," Dowling said.

Arpaio promised to uncover massive public corruption -- "We are looking into all avenues of this investigation," he said -- and to win a speedy conviction.

From the start Dowling maintained her innocence: "I kept saying I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything."

It took three years, but finally a judge threw out all the felony counts against Dowling. She entered a guilty plea to a single misdemeanor charge. But she said her reputation had been shattered, her career destroyed, and she owed more than $100,000 in legal fees.

"I still don't think that everybody knows I was innocent," she said.
Dowling is not alone. Arpaio has launched -- either on his own or in conjunction with the county attorney -- high-profile criminal investigations against a who's who of Maricopa County politicians and officials. The list includes the mayor of Phoenix, a former police chief, two members of the board of supervisors, Superior Court judges, and even a former state attorney general.

The charges have included public corruption, misuse of taxpayers' dollars, bribery, rape and even child molestation. What all these investigations hold in common is that they were launched with great public fanfare, but rarely resulted in convictions. Among the investigations recounted in this report, the only conviction has been on the misdemeanor charge against Dowling.

Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon calls the sheriff's long list of investigations a "reign of terror."

Gordon came under Arpaio's scrutiny, he says, after speaking out against the sheriff's neighborhood sweeps to round up illegal immigrants.
The mayor says he received a torrent of records requests from sheriff's investigators, and he was later told that he was under investigation on possible child molestation charges. Gordon says the sheriff "bragged that he was watching my office from his office with a telescope."

The sheriff's department confirmed that Gordon was investigated on child molestation accusations. In the end charges were never filed.

"He is a coward," said former Buckeye, Arizona, Police Chief Dan Saban. In 2004 Saban challenged Arpaio's bid for a fourth term in the sheriff's office. That was when the local news reported that Arpaio was investigating his rival on charges of rape.

It was a claim made by Sabin's foster mother. She claimed the rape occurred 30 years earlier, when Saban was only 15 years old. Saban says he was the victim, not the foster mother.

Once again charges were never filed. But Saban noted the sheriff alerted the media to the details of the sordid accusation. "They put out a media campaign against me," he said. "That I was the subject of a criminal probe."

It sounds familiar to County Supervisor Don Stapley. "They indicted me on 118 counts." he said, "none of which I'm guilty of."

Those 118 counts of public corruption against Stapley made big headlines before they were thrown out of court by a judge. Arpaio has refilled many of those charges and Stapley is still fighting to clear his name.

Arpaio turned down CNN requests for an interview, citing the federal grand jury investigation and a series of threatened lawsuits from these and other cases.

However, one of Arpaio's long-time assistants was eager to defend his boss.

Deputy Chief John MacIntyre says that in each and every case, the sheriff's investigations were fully justified. "Was there probable cause? There was a ton of probable cause," he said.

In the rape investigation of the sheriff's political rival, Saban, for example, MacIntyre says it was a case the sheriff had to investigate. "We didn't make up the mother's testimony," he said. "It came in here like a bombshell."

MacIntyre says it was just coincidence that the sheriff benefited when the story was leaked to the press.

Andrew Thomas is another Arpaio ally. He is the former Maricopa County attorney who participated in a number of Arpaio's high-profile cases. He is currently running for the Arizona attorney general's office.

He, too, defends Arpaio's investigations, saying, "The reality is these were legitimate cases that needed to be brought."

"It wasn't just brought up out of thin air, there was evidence to back up those cases," he said.

The sheriff's critics, he said, are "being portrayed as martyrs and I feel that's absolutely inaccurate."

Thomas paints a picture of Maricopa County as a pit of corruption that includes the judicial system, which he blames for his lack of convictions. "We had to go into courts where the judges were collaborating with the targets of the investigations," he said. "They were working together to thwart investigations (and) prosecutions."

The Arizona Bar Association takes a different view. Its ethics committee is currently considering a case against Thomas for his role in Arpaio's investigations of public officials, the association said.

MacIntyre says it is up to the public to untangle the web of political intrigue surrounding Phoenix and its environs. "The electorate is going to have to say we don't want to do this anymore, and we will vote one or more people out," he said. "Right now the sheriff's polls indicate that the public still supports him rather overwhelmingly."

Whether the grand jury investigation or the threatened lawsuits bring change remains to be seen.

Mike Lacey, a newspaper editor who was once arrested after criticizing Arpaio, says the end is not yet in sight: "If you are a critic of the sheriff, or if you represent an opportunity for publicity, you become a target for this man."

These are interesting. The prosecution has a lot to play with: Text messages on Travis' cellphone, his journal (as a conscientious Mormon, probably a candid account of his spiritual life), and letters. And it seems from the more recent filing that the defense did not want public release of elements of its response to its attempts to exclude Travis' letters:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/072010/m4292562.pdf

Discussion is held re: State’s Notice Regarding Text Messages Stored in Victim Travis
Alexander’s Cellular Telephone.

Based on the discussions held,
IT IS ORDERED denying Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss Charges or in the Alternative,
Motion to Dismiss Death Due to Brady Violation.
Discussion is held re: State’s Notice of Disclosure Regarding Victim’s Journal.
The Court has also reviewed in camera the letters purportedly written by victim Travis
Alexander.
​

IT IS ORDERED affirming Capital Case Management Conference set on​

at 8:30 a.m. in this division.

And a more recent filing:

The Court has received Defendant’s Response; Motion to Preclude Letters Purportedly
Written by Travis Alexander to Defendant. At the request of the Defense,
IT IS ORDERED filing under seal the above-mentioned Response/Motion; same not to
be opened without prior order of the Court.​

This case is eFiling eligible: http://www.clerkofcourt.maricopa.gov/efiling/default.asp

​

The Court has received Defendant’s Response; Motion to Preclude Letters Purportedly
Written by Travis Alexander to Defendant. At the request of the Defense,
IT IS ORDERED filing under seal the above-mentioned Response/Motion; same not to
be opened without prior order of the Court.​

This case is eFiling eligible: http://www.clerkofcourt.maricopa.gov/efiling/default.asp

And it looks as if Travis's house is on the market again...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11428-E-Queensborough-Ave-Mesa-AZ-85212/55275691_zpid/

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/082010/m4337154.pdf

This meeting took just half an hour. Jodi and both her lawyers were presenting.Some excerpts, with my speculations in brackets:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that the Court and counsel confer at the Bench, on the record.
The Court notes that the following motions from the State are pending:
Motion to Preclude Letters Purportedly Written by Travis Alexander;
Motion for Disclosure by Order of the Court of Original Letters Purportedly Written by Travis Alexander; and
State’s oral Motion for Discovery

Discussion is held re: discovery of original letters.
Defense counsel makes an oral request for an ex parte hearing regarding the original
letters.
The State objects to Defense counsel’s request for an ex parte hearing.
[To me, this seems like scuffling. The defense has letters from Travis, almost certainly letters to Jodi, and they want to keep them away from the prosecution for as long as possible. It seems unlikely that we will succeed.]

Discussion is held re: e-mail request from Defense counsel as outlined in the Case
Management Plan filed on 08/03/2010.
Based on the discussions held,
IT IS ORDERED that Defense counsel shall file a Notice of Request for Discovery
regarding the exact e-mail accounts and specific date range.
[More scuffling: The defense wants access to relevant email accounts, but the judge wants them to specify which accounts and when.]

IT IS ORDERED setting the next Capital Case Management Conference re: Defendant’s
request for ex parte hearing on August 11, 2010 at 8:30 a.m. in this division. [Which is today!]
At the request of the State,
IT IS ORDERED vacating Evidentiary Hearing re: Motion to Preclude set on September 14, 2010.
Defense counsel makes an oral motion that witness, Deanna Reid, submit to a deposition.
Discussion is held.
IT IS ORDERED that the witness, Deanna Reid, submit to a deposition. Defense counsel shall be responsible for the cost of the witness’ travel arrangements. Defense counsel shall lodge an order with the Court with the exact date and time for the deposition.
[Travis' very good and longtime friend Deanna Reid was expecting a visit from Travis at the time of his death. She delivered a moving eulogy for him at his memorial. The defense needs to see if it can extract anything advantageous from her memories of Travis' behavior, perhaps some instance of physical confrontation or strong-arming to justify their evolving theory that Jodi slaughtered him in self-defense. I expect that Ms. Reid will be one feisty hostile witness for such questions.]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/082010/m4344309.pdf

Not much new here. The defense's attempts to keep Travis' note from the prosecution for as long as possible failed. It was finally stated, however, what these notes are: They're emails. (That might help explain why the prosecution is attempting to preclude them from evidence: They might be arguing that the files might have been edited or otherwise altered.)

One thing does seem interesting, to me at least: These conferences haven't had any real tussles over forensic evidence.

The way this case is dragging on now, even before trial, just imagine the years of appeals if she is convicted, especially if given death penalty. Good grief.

cluciano63 said:

The way this case is dragging on now, even before trial, just imagine the years of appeals if she is convicted, especially if given death penalty. Good grief.

Click to expand...

Hi, cluciano. I agree with you. The trial won't happen until 2011. Of course, Jodi will spend all the pre-trial time in jail; not a bad option, I think, if you know that you are are guilty and think you will be convicted. (The accommodations are a little better and the environment less hostile.)

The crime was particularly heinous (going out of your way to slash down a "friend with benefits), but I don't think that she will be given the death penalty. There are things running to her advantage: She is an attractive young woman who doesn't fit most people's conception of a brutal killer and it might be difficult for some jurors to totally dismiss her probable defense that she fought off the (perhaps sexual) attack of a much large man.

I don't think that the Arizona appeal system will lend her any help once she's convicted, but your point about the time stretching and stretching couldn't be more apt.

Hi all! I am new to this site and this is my first post. I found WS after a google search to find if any more information had been released about the Arias trial. I have read every page in this thread and I really can't contribute any more than what has already been said. Of course I agree she is 100% guilty. I believe Jodi killed Travis in a jealous rage, not in self defense.
After first viewing the 48 hours mystery segment a few thoughts popped in my head:

The bedding in the dryer was odd. This must have been done before the killing because I feel she would have been too scared to stick around after the killing in fear that someone may walk in. I assumed she offered to put the bedding into the wash telling Travis she was doing this so he would come home to a "clean"bed. This would have served her in removing all traces of her DNA.

I also thought that Jodi did not plan for a struggle. She assumed that the gun would do the job of killing him with the first shot. She said in the interview that the gun jammed when the "ninjas" put it to her head. I do believe the gun jammed when she was trying to shoot Travis. Jodi may have panicked and ran downstairs to get a knife. It could have been at this time that Travis made his way to the bedroom. The LE said Travis was first attacked with the knife in his bedroom. Then he was dragged back to the shower. I believe if the gun had worked there would have been very little evidence to prove her guilt forensically, as all traces of her DNA on him would have gone down the drain, literally. (I'm sure this is what Jodi was planning on).


Chanler - You spoke of the shower scene in Psycho. I too, thought of this movie when watching 48 Hours and Jodi was speaking in her "baby" voice. It made me think of the end of the film where Norman Bates (in his mother's voice) says "Let them see what kind of a person I am. I'm not even going to swat that fly. I hope they are watching... they'll see. They'll see and they'll know, and they'll say, "Why, she wouldn't even harm a fly..."
I believe that Jodi truly thought that people would see this interview and say "how can such a composed relaxed woman commit such a crime?" And then something else came to mind, Perhaps Jodi was thinking that some lawyer out there would see the interview and say "this girl didn't do this, I'm going to take her case pro bono" I couldn't think of any other reason she would give these interviews.

Ok, so those are my thoughts, so far. I also wanted to share a link I found today:.
http://www.timespublications.com/aug10-feature1.asp
It's an article I just found. I thought it was interesting...especially this "Inside the washing machine detectives discovered, along with several of Travis’ religious undergarments, a new digital camera"

What are religious undergarments?? :waitasec:

Hi, all,

I'm new here. Found this site after feeling the strong urge to delve into the case. I hate that I'm late to the game, because some links to stories and interviews no longer work.

From everything I've read here and seen on some other sites, I have similiar conclusions as everyone else. I believe the biggest keys to Travis' demise were:

1. Love for women
2. Inability to sever ties, or at least learn when to vacate a toxic relationship.
3. His upbringing
4. Late blooming or inexperience handling sexual relationships.

Though having a handle on any or all of these areas could not alone prevent the psychotic murderer, it could have helped helped hims protect himself and maybe stopped the relationship from going so far.

In my view, Travis was naive and tanacious in his approach to women. I don't know when he came to live with his grandmother, but if he'd spent a lot of time with devout believers, it's easy to conclude that he was blissfully sheltered from the various types of women out there. If he was basically meeting people through church or while he was traveling or at work, he couldn't gain experience with regular, everyday women. Being a woman, I can attest to some of the unsavory female characters out there without a chavanistic reprimand.

anyway, as big as Travis' social circle appeared, I think it was actually a very small fish bowl. I can't reason why else it would take his friends and family 5 days to finally check on him if it wasn't. In addition, the fact that he locked his bedroom door and barred his roommates entry explains how private and guarded he really was about his life.

While I was being raised, sex was forbidden. It was an awful burden for a woman, and we were taught that it was all a man wanted from us, etc and so on. My sister and I were heavily preached to about it, and I learned that it was a dark, nasty thing. however, I wanted to know what this dark, nasty thing was all about, so I'd lie, hide things, and basically lead a double life to pursue it. I think Travis did the same thing. I was very guarded of my room and extremely worried at what my family members might find at my house. Be it booze or cigarettes, condoms, whatever. I'd hide anything away if they visited. So it's not a hard thing for me to imagine that Travis' family and friends probably had no clue as to who he really was. Not to say that he was a bad person, because I don't believe he was. I'm just saying that when you pressure someone or guilt someone into a certain belief, they'll either conform--or do it behind your back.

I don't know how long he was with his parents, but while he was raised by them, they unwittingly taught him how to have unhealthy relationships. I'm sure that they had many fights and got crazy themselves, since they were on drugs, and as they stayed together, they taught travis that what we consider unhealthy, codependent relationships should be tolerated. This is why he tolerated and kept going on with his relationship to Jodi. He'd tell others that it was going nowhere, because it was easier to do that than to keep hearing from his friends and family about how he ought to dump her. I'm sure he realized in his heart that they weren't right, but when you can't pull yourself out of toxic relationship, you tend to lie to yourself and anyone else with a voice of reason. You think they don't understand, and you eventually isolate yourself in dealing with the problem.

He evidentally tried to move on, but her needy pull was too great, and he probably in turn needed her, because co-dependency doesn't have a "co" in front of it for the heck of it. He obviously didn' t know how to make a clean break, or he didn't want to feel the sense of loss, or he stupidly thought they could actually rewind to a friendship. This is where his experience with sexual relationships, a variety of female personalities, and his inability to break ties comes into play.

I don't believe that Jodi was his first, but even if she wasn't, that doesn't mean that he was experienced with women. He didn't know, but he should have known, that he couldn't be taking all these photos with various women and have all these various women commenting to him on public websites. He should have known, but didn't, that hopping around dating a bunch of women at once would cause him grief, especially if he was sleeping with one or more of them. With experience, he could have been able to gauge who could be friends with benefits and who was just too crazy involved to take it. He might have seen it, but felt beholden to Jodi because he couldn't isolate himself from the guilt of a break up, or he couldn't stand the thought of the unknown--her out of his life and his sight.

Again, I'm not blaming him, because none of this is cause for murder.Whether we have certain inherent rights as humans, we all know that in the real world, exercising those rights might get you hurt. So he had a right to do the things above that I say he should have known better than to do, but he had to do it with sane people.

When he realized that Jodi wasn't for him, he should have done what he'd told his family that he'd done by getting rid of her, but he didn't. Phone calls, facebook messages, and sleeping with her on the day of the murder prove that. Accepting her and readily giving her attention even after his tires were slashed twice shows some type of toxcity on Travis' part as well. It also caused her to have to up the anty for the next hurtful she'd do to him. violence has diminishing returns, so if he accepted her back after doing that, she felt justified, but also she had to escalate the next thing she did to get his attention.

Maybe he couldn't let go because she was his first or because she was one of his firsts that had actually rocked his world.

I don' t know. I'm sleepy nd not sure I'm making my points, but I'm sure breaking ties with his parents probably had a profound affect on him, and so breaking ties with anyone might have been overwhelming for him.

I don't know, but the way he related to Jodi was just strange and I'm trying to get a hold of this double life he led in that respect.

:Welcome-12-june:

Welcome to WS, Justine and Wasntme =) Thank you for joining us here!

THANKS!!!:dance:

Justine8787 said:

Hi all! I am new to this site and this is my first post. I found WS after a google search to find if any more information had been released about the Arias trial. I have read every page in this thread and I really can't contribute any more than what has already been said. Of course I agree she is 100% guilty. I believe Jodi killed Travis in a jealous rage, not in self defense.
After first viewing the 48 hours mystery segment a few thoughts popped in my head:

The bedding in the dryer was odd. This must have been done before the killing because I feel she would have been too scared to stick around after the killing in fear that someone may walk in. I assumed she offered to put the bedding into the wash telling Travis she was doing this so he would come home to a "clean"bed. This would have served her in removing all traces of her DNA.

I also thought that Jodi did not plan for a struggle. She assumed that the gun would do the job of killing him with the first shot. She said in the interview that the gun jammed when the "ninjas" put it to her head. I do believe the gun jammed when she was trying to shoot Travis. Jodi may have panicked and ran downstairs to get a knife. It could have been at this time that Travis made his way to the bedroom. The LE said Travis was first attacked with the knife in his bedroom. Then he was dragged back to the shower. I believe if the gun had worked there would have been very little evidence to prove her guilt forensically, as all traces of her DNA on him would have gone down the drain, literally. (I'm sure this is what Jodi was planning on).


Chanler - You spoke of the shower scene in Psycho. I too, thought of this movie when watching 48 Hours and Jodi was speaking in her "baby" voice. It made me think of the end of the film where Norman Bates (in his mother's voice) says "Let them see what kind of a person I am. I'm not even going to swat that fly. I hope they are watching... they'll see. They'll see and they'll know, and they'll say, "Why, she wouldn't even harm a fly..."
I believe that Jodi truly thought that people would see this interview and say "how can such a composed relaxed woman commit such a crime?" And then something else came to mind, Perhaps Jodi was thinking that some lawyer out there would see the interview and say "this girl didn't do this, I'm going to take her case pro bono" I couldn't think of any other reason she would give these interviews.

Ok, so those are my thoughts, so far. I also wanted to share a link I found today:.
http://www.timespublications.com/aug10-feature1.asp
It's an article I just found. I thought it was interesting...especially this "Inside the washing machine detectives discovered, along with several of Travis’ religious undergarments, a new digital camera"

What are religious undergarments?? :waitasec:

Click to expand...

Hi, Justine, and welcome! You bring up some provocative points. I especially like your comparison of "Norman Bates'" final words in Psycho and Jodi in the interview.

I agree that Jodi did not anticipate a struggle. I think that her killing was planned (she apparently brought a loaded gun into the house), rather than the product of a momentary rage. She apparently views herself as grounded and rational; to me, the murder is more like an execution gone wrong than an outburst killing. That Travis wasn't killed by a gunshot to the head must have panicked her completely. Twenty-seven stab wounds and her vivid memory of him helpless yet alive on the floor provide some indications of how panicked she was.

My take on her interviews, not much different from yours. is that at first she was still confident that despite his friends' deep suspicions, there was no compelling evidence against her. When the impressive forensics literally materialized, she improvised a back-up story. Of course, given her situation, the interviews have locked her into numerous lies and contradictions.

The digital camera at least was placed in the washer after the attack. It contains vestiges of pictures taken at the bloody scene.

To answer your question, Travis' "religious undergarments" are the bulky underwear that some devout Mormons wear. Travis lived, worked, and breathed LDS principles.

Thank you for the welcome and for answering my question.
You are certainly right about the camera being placed in the washer after the murder, I had just assumed that the bedding in the dryer proved premeditation.
Another point that struck me that I had forgot to
mention was that Jodi said her phone ran out of power on her way to Travis' house yet it worked just fine to call him after the murder when she was on her way to Utah. How did the phone miraculously start working again? If she had a car charger the phone would not have died in the first place. IMO she didn't want that phone bouncing around cell towers near his house, again, proving premeditation.
One more thing-I said to myself "if someone slashed me tires TWICE and stole my
journals I would certainly not invite then over to spend the night..." So this got me thinking of what she could have said to him to get him to invite her over? I thought, just possibly she may have said, yes, I took your journals and I'm going to bring them back to return them to you. This would have given her a way in to kill him because there would be no way he would say no. -just thinking on paper...

Thanks for the welcome.

I believe that her asking to return his journals is a plausible way to get him to let her come over to the house, but I seriously think that he must have wanted to see her and sleep with her or else that "Hand me my journals" talk would have ended at the door. If he was that worried about her behavior, he could have said "as a matter of fact, just put them outside the door and leave. Better yet, mail them!" LOL Do the police have the journals? I don't know. Did she hand the journals over or were they back at his house?

I agree about the cell phone--unless she didn't have a car charger, only a charger for the house. She could have charged it while in Travis' house if she didn't have a car charger. (which could have been another excuse for getting inside the house.) however, with all the driving she did, it'd be dumb not to have a car charger. It's possible that she didn't pack it, though. It's possible, but not probable. I really think your idea is probably right, but just giving a plausible excuse for her not to have it, because my phone only came with a house charger and I never bought the car charger, and I'd be up crap creek if a jury used that against me.

I don't know when the tire slashings happened, but we see him flirting with her on myspace a month before his death? Is that right?

Depending on what kind of person Travis really was (and that's why i was trying to talk about his personality above) he might have pushed aside the bad things she did because he was co-dependent. Sometimes people just forgive stupid things because they're stuck on the person who might be hurting them. They might hate themselves for being codependent, but they can't break the cycle.

If Travis was like that, he probably forgave her for the tire slashing or at least seperated himself from that act and continued to talk to her. I can think of no other answer since he let her be at his house possibly the night before and all day the next day.

I personally don't believe that Travis was a devout LDS. I believe that he tried to be and tried to give off that appearance. We've all seen the biggest relgious people fall from grace, so I plan to pretty much ignore the religious aspect of it, because he wouldn't have slept with her or kept sleeping with her if he really lived and breathed the principles.

Justine8787 said:

Thank you for the welcome and for answering my question.
You are certainly right about the camera being placed in the washer after the murder, I had just assumed that the bedding in the dryer proved premeditation.
Another point that struck me that I had forgot to
mention was that Jodi said her phone ran out of power on her way to Travis' house yet it worked just fine to call him after the murder when she was on her way to Utah. How did the phone miraculously start working again? If she had a car charger the phone would not have died in the first place. IMO she didn't want that phone bouncing around cell towers near his house, again, proving premeditation.
One more thing-I said to myself "if someone slashed me tires TWICE and stole my
journals I would certainly not invite then over to spend the night..." So this got me thinking of what she could have said to him to get him to invite her over? I thought, just possibly she may have said, yes, I took your journals and I'm going to bring them back to return them to you. This would have given her a way in to kill him because there would be no way he would say no. -just thinking on paper...

Click to expand...

Hi, Justine, another interesting note. I think that you're right about the phone.

A question: Where did you read that she stole his journals? I definitely remember the slashed tires, but I don't remember the journals. For a devout Mormon, journal-keeping can be a very significant pursuit.

I think that Travis couldn't seem to totally break off with Jodi, even when he complained about her vehemently to his friends. (Wasn'tMe's point about him flirting with online just one month before his death proves that.) Apparently, he was a virgin when they first had sex, and it wouldn't surprise me if that continued to be the key to their relationship from his perspective.

wasnt_me said:

I personally don't believe that Travis was a devout LDS. I believe that he tried to be and tried to give off that appearance. We've all seen the biggest relgious people fall from grace, so I plan to pretty much ignore the religious aspect of it, because he wouldn't have slept with her or kept sleeping with her if he really lived and breathed the principles.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your note. I think that Travis was devout. In fact, in ways I think that quality holds the key to his murder. From the testimony of his closest friends, the great majority of whom were LDS, he was rigorous about the practices, doctrines, tithing, and readings of the religion. He would view his sexual relationship with Jodi as a lapse, a phase that he would grow out of when he found a good virgin Mormon wife.

Devout people have lapses. Even Mother Teresa's most recently published journals show her losing core beliefs.

Chanler- I believe I read about the journals on the tribute Facebook page. I think his brother Steven posted about it. When I have more time I will search for the post and add the link.
When I read in the court minutes that Jodi was also being charged with theft I assumed it was the journals they were referring to. I don't recall reading about anything else that she stole. Perhaps when she read the journals and learned what Travis truely thought of her was the time she started plotting murder. (although I think that Travis going to Cancun with another woman couldn't have made her too happy either)

Wasntme- Yes I agree with all your thoughts about the Travis / Jodi codependent relationship. And that's very true that he could have said mail the journals, but I think Jodi could have said I want to see you in person to talk things out etc... so she would have an "in". Again, this is all just spectulation.
I just find it really hard to believe that he said "oh you are going to Utah? You can always swing by Arizona" as she stated in the 48 hrs mystery episode. I know they had broken it off many times but supposedly the week before the murder was their most heated fight of their relationship. When I'm not on my iPod I'm going to search for that post about the journals and the fight they had.
Also, as far as I know the journals have not been found. I guess we will see when the trial starts, if it ever starts!

Wasn't me- I forgot to answer your question about the tires. I am going to have to go back and watch the 48 hours interview for that answer.

Chanler- I just remembered, the link I posted (in my first post above) has the info about
the journals. It wasn't Travis' brother who spoke of the theft, it was his friend Taylor Searle (who appeared in the 48 hours interview). It's a good article, it has more info than any of the others I have seen.

Thanks!

I think we'll amicably disagree about the devout thing and the virgin thing. I just seriously believe he was living a double life. In a lot of murder cases I read, it always seems that the family has a flowerly image of the victim and is usually the last to accept that it wasn't true. I just found it strange, too, on the 48 hours interview, his loved one said, "I could see him being typical Travis, and saying we can do this, but you're not my girlfriend and I'm not taking you to Cancun." (Paraphrased.) It's odd to my that he refers to Travis telling her girl she can come over for sex, but she's not his girlfriend as "typical Travis." JMO. Maybe I didn't hear that right, but I think I did.

Justine8787--I watched the 48 hours thing again with my boyfriend who hadn't seen it. They said the tire slashing happened a couple months before the murder. They were also saying that he was fearful of Jodi at the end and his friend remembers Travis telling him how Travis had told Jodi that he never wanted to see her again. If this were true, then why the myspace note? Why does he let her into his house at 430am? And why was he having sex with her and taking pictures? this is why i say I don't believe his family really knew the truth about this whole thing, the truth about his beliefs, or his sex life. I sympathize with them. I really do and I hope that I don't offend them if they read this. I do believe that Travis was a good man. He just had some secrets. But it's JMO. I could be wrong.

I heard Jodi say something that I didn't notice the first time. She said that Travis had planned to go visit her in Ureka at the end of May. It was about 20 minutes into the show. She said that he was supposed to visit her at the end of May. They were going to go to Crater lake.

This is terribly significant, if it's true, because the cancun trip was the first and/or second week in June. So I see the scenerio as he reneged on that visit and told her that it was because of the Cancun trip. THEN he had to tell her that she couldn't go on the trip. Since it was a company trip, I'm sure it was easy for her to find out that he could get two tickets, so he had to break it to her that he was taking another girl.

After all the traveling they did together, etc, I can imagine it blowing her mind that he not only canceled the trip to see her, but he did it to go to Cancun with another woman.

And, no, it makes no sense for her to go 17 hours from Ureka to Mesa, when she had almost a straight shot to get to Utah.

Here's a rough timeline I put together for this. Feel to add or correct.

February 2007--supposedly a couple
April 23, 2007--myspace message about her beauty from Travis
July 2007(?) -- Break up allegedly a 5 month relationship
July 9, 2007-- another hotness message from Travis on myspace

July--August 2007??--Jodi moves to AZ (myspace friends wish her luck in AZ on August 2nd)

March 2008(?)—Tires slashed twice
April 2008—Jodi moved away from AZ not sure of an exact date
May 1, 2008—myspace message from Travis, discussing her hotness
End of May (?)—Travis cancels end of May trip to see Jodi in Yreka. (according to Jodi)

June 1-10, 2008 Cancun trip for PPL. Travis plans to arrive June 10. Doubt that’s the last day of the trip, but they ever say how long the trip was. (Jodi claims to have known about the trip a year in advance and claimed to have known she wasn’t going with Travis. Strangely enough, a year earlier would be the time of the breakup, right?)

First week of June—Marie Hall cannot get in touch with Travis. Do not know if this is literally referring to June 1st, since his murder occurred on a Monday, June 4th.
June 2, 2008 Jodi sets out for L.A. (10hr drive) and then Utah to visit friends.
June 3, 2008—8:30pm call between Jodi and Travis. (according to the police report, she said this call happened as she was on the way from Yreka to a conference in Salt Lake City, 12hour drive)
June 4, 2008—4:30am Jodi claims that she arrived at his house and he let her in.
12:13pm—last call made to Travis made by who knows
1:40pm—sex pictures
4:19pm sent an email
5:22pm—5:30pm shower photos
Unstated time—death photos
7pm—misses conference call
June 5, 2008—Jodi claims to have arrived in SLC late morning for last day of conference (mesa to SLC 11 1/2 hr drive would love to see the milege on her car)
June 9, 2008 10:20pm Travis found dead.