FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

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Very interesting IMO non-racial opinion piece about this case.

http://freegotham.com/2012/03/25/words-i-never-thought-id-say/

Excellent points from this guy...I don't know if we can post from that site...but he's got the argument of the 'stand your ground' and it appears GZ violated them all....I'll post the part I'm speaking about...It's evident to me, GZ was the agressor...is my belief...


from the link above:
From what I understand (and let’s be clear, I certainly haven’t read every word related to the case. At least I’m admitting there may be room for error in my understanding), George Zimmerman is a self-appointed “captain” of his “neighborhood watch” program, in a gated community. Although he holds a valid license to carry a concealed weapon, he was not authorized to use it on watch. Nor, was he acting as an officially recognized security figure by any association, or community governing board. He claims to have observed someone that he believed to be suspicious, walking down the street. He called 911 to inform them of this person, and told the operator that he was following him. In direct contradiction to the instructions of the 911 operator, and in violation of the actual neighborhood watch guidelines which state; “it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles,” George Zimmerman pursed Trayvon Martin.

Everything that happens after Zimmerman called 911, changes everything related to this case.

Had Zimmerman let the natural course of events transpire, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

By every account, there was no crime being committed. There was no imminent threat to George Zimmerman. And, by law, there was no justification for his actions. George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin. As soon as that decision was made, he became the aggressor. Had he not followed and forced Trayvon’s defenses, there would not have been an altercation that (giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt) necessitated the use of deadly force.

Here’s where I fall back on my personal defense training.

According to how I have been trained, in order to use deadly force against an assailant, there must be 4 components satisfied. Your attacker must meet them all prior to making the decision to shoot.



1. Means to inflict potentially fatal harm. (Having a weapon/capability)

First, Trayvon Martin was not even an assailant. He was walking down the street…unarmed. Had Zimmerman had legitimate concern for his presence, his “job” was to call police. He did. And there should have ended his involvement. No weapon. No capability based upon lack of contact between either party.

Component #1 – not satisfied.

2. Clear intent to do potentially fatal harm.

See Component #1. Trayvon Martin was not an assailant. In fact, once confronted by George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin now becomes the potential target of a violent encounter. Had he been armed, and felt his life to be in imminent jeopardy, he would have been justified in reaching into his waistband (as Zimmerman alleges took place prior to firing on the unarmed Martin) and utilizing deadly force in his own defense. Zimmerman meets both, Component 1 and 2 at this point. Martin does not.

Component #2 – not satisfied.

3. You must be certain that your life is in immediate jeopardy.

Have I mentioned that Trayvon Martin was not an assailant? Prior to George Zimmerman’s decision to engage Martin, which ignored both the instructions of a 911 operator, and the statutes of the neighborhood watch program that Zimmerman claimed to be acting under, Martin had no interest in the well-being of George Zimmerman whatsoever.

Component #3 – not satisfied.

4. You must have no other alternative.


This is where you’ll hear “stand your ground” being tossed about like some alpha-male-juicehead macho-ism.

The reality is; if you’re making the decision to employ the use of deadly force, you’d best be damned sure that you have to. The decision to take human life…and that is the decision you’ve made once you’ve employed your gun in a confrontation (any competent use of a gun, is reasonably expected to incapacitate a target, potentially resulting in their death), should never, ever, ever, be made as anything other than as a last resort. It goes without saying that Zimmerman didn’t have to defend his life until he provoked confrontation with an unarmed Trayvon Martin. And even then, by his instigation, had Martin killed George Zimmerman during the alleged physical confrontation, it would be Martin who was justified.

Trayvon Martin didn’t meet those stipulations. George Zimmerman…did.
 
What about the witness yesterday that said they saw them both on the ground when the gunshot occurred?

What about the funeral director that said he found NO evidence of an altercation or a struggle on TM's body? No bruising, no s, according to the initial police report, with his body in the opposite direction of the concrete, severely casting doubt on the possibility that he was slamming Zimmerman’s head into the concrete at the time of his murder. This is further supported by funeral director, Richard Kurtz, told that there were no signs of cuts or bruising on Trayvon’s hands or knuckles to indicate that there had been a fight at all, Scratches , cuts or abraisions on TM's body...Not even the knuckles on his hands. I found that interesting.


http://newsone.com/nation/kirstensav...ieve-hes-gone/
 
Not only that...his jacket doesn't even look wrinkled. His clothes are neat. It's so strange. I look worse than that after chasing my kids around.

I can't get past his shirt being neatly tucked in on the released video. If it was tucked in prior to the scuffle, surely it would have become untucked with all that rolling around and alleged head bashing. And why would he be even thinking about tucking his shirt in after shooting someone? I just can't envision him saying, "excuse me, officer, do you mind if I tuck my shirt in before you cuff me?"
 
Yep - this confrontation didn't last long. I keep saying this - we're talking about 60 - 120 seconds. That's it.

I just don't get why GZ confronted TM. There was no reason for it - he could have gotten out of his car and continued to watch him. Trayvon had the whole length of that sidewalk to walk - GZ could have stayed in the shadows and just watched him - if he would have done that - we wouldn't be here. Remember 60 - 120 seconds is all we're talking about before the first LE arrived.

Why he chose to confront him - and I do believe GZ confronted him from what the gf says about the end of the phone call - IDK. She heard GZ say something to Trayvon - so GZ had obviously walked up to him.

And I do also believe that GZ believe that Trayvon had a weapon. His comments on the 911 call - "he's got something in his hand" "he's got his hands in his waistband" "there's something up with this guy". And continuing with that belief of GZ thinking he had a gun - I also believe when the witnesses said that right after the shooting GZ was straddling Trayvon with his hands on his back - that GZ was checking him for that weapon that GZ thought he had. Then the one witness said GZ was pacing around and not answering when people were yelling at him - that was GZ's "A-HA" moment of what he had just done.


JMHO

I believe GZ set this whole scenario up...I believe he was determined to not let another 'a^^hole get away...his mentality is set up in that first call..GZ was in pursuit of TM...I too don't know how this boy wound up flat on his face with hands and arms tucked under his body. I still believe GZ startled Trayvon, when GZ said, what are you doing here, why are you following me, he might have pushed Trayvon..that horrific scream, then bang...it was such a short time frame...I'm assuming the force of a 9mm in close range would have spun this child around and could have been dead before he hit the ground.

I just hope the determination of this investigation gets justice for Trayvon. This kid should be alive today, if not for GZ..
 
I believe GZ set this whole scenario up...I believe he was determined to not let another 'a^^hole get away...his mentality is set up in that first call..GZ was in pursuit of TM...I too don't know how this boy wound up flat on his face with hands and arms tucked under his body. I still believe GZ startled Trayvon, when GZ said, what are you doing here, why are you following me, he might have pushed Trayvon..that horrific scream, then bang...it was such a short time frame...I'm assuming the force of a 9mm in close range would have spun this child around and could have been dead before he hit the ground.

I just hope the determination of this investigation gets justice for Trayvon. This kid should be alive today, if not for GZ..

Well stated...
 
Yes he set this all up and that's why he was screaming help for 45 seconds knowing that his neighbors would stay safely inside and not come to his add.

Isn't it true that Martin's girlfriend didn't find out about his death for a couple of days? And if that is the case then given what she claims she heard on the phone, wouldn't she have been worried why he wasn't calling her back? Or at least contacting his parents to let them know what she heard?

Have any of you been in a fight before and been afraid for your lives? You don't think Zimmerman may have tucked in his shirt or fixed himself up a little before going to the police station?
 
Sanford police failed to collect key evidence in the case: the clothing of George Zimmerman, the gunman who killed Trayvon.

Not true, police said. They took his clothing as well as Trayvon's and packaged it for crime-lab analysis. A spokeswoman for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey would not disclose Tuesday where the clothing is now, but she wrote in an email that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement "is assisting with the processing of physical evidence."

Typically, evidence from Seminole County crime scenes is analyzed at the FDLE lab in Orlando.

Neighborhood Watch captain George Zimmerman wasn't arrested because he has a relative on the Sanford police force.

Police have no one named Zimmerman on the payroll nor anyone related to him, Bill Lee Jr. said earlier this month before stepping down temporarily as police chief. That rumor may have started when an Orlando television station misidentified Sanford police spokesman Sgt. David Morgenstern as David Zimmerman.

Police should have simply arrested Zimmerman and let a judge sort it out.

Zimmerman has not been arrested because he told police he acted in self-defense, and then-Chief Lee said police did not have probable cause. Florida Statute 776.032 expressly prohibits police from arresting someone who had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. Police may investigate, the statute says, "but the agency may not arrest the person" without probable cause.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...angela-corey-medical-examiner-releases-bodies


The authorities have GZ clothing...so I believe it is being anaylzed as we type...but what about the gun? Do they also have that for evidence?
 
leanaí;7742215 said:
Yes he set this all up and that's why he was screaming help for 45 seconds knowing that his neighbors would stay safely inside and not come to his add.

Isn't it true that Martin's girlfriend didn't find out about his death for a couple of days? And if that is the case then given what she claims she heard on the phone, wouldn't she have been worried why he wasn't calling her back? Or at least contacting his parents to let them know what she heard?

Have any of you been in a fight before and been afraid for your lives? You don't think Zimmerman may have tucked in his shirt or fixed himself up a little before going to the police station?

Thankfully I've never been in a fight where I was afraid for my life. But I can tell you with complete certainly that the very last thing on my mind after shooting another human being dead would be fixing myself up a little. If that's what was on his mind at the time, it tells me all I need to know about George Zimmerman.

MOO
 
Report: Zimmerman thought "it would all blow over," friend says
9:53 a.m. EST, March 25, 2012

Neighborhood Watch captain George Zimmerman, who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last month, sparking a national outcry, thought the killing "would all blow over," a friend, Joe Oliver, told ABC News this morning.

"Because he was there and he knows what happened...he's been very confident - naively - that this would all blow over," Oliver said.

Oliver, who said he has known Zimmerman for about 10 years, and Zimmerman's legal advisor, Craig Sonner, also appeared on The Today Show.

Oliver told the Today Show that Zimmerman is "just now realizing not just how big this is for him, but how big this is for the country."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver

I believe GZ felt he said all the right words, to prove this was a justified killing. But the actions just don't fit this crime...I certainly hope they can prove otherwise. He's too confident that this 'stand your ground' law is on his side. What he doesn't realize is that when he followed Trayvon and confronted him, it changed the rules of the law..I only pray the authorities see it for what it is..:please:
 
leanaí;7742215 said:
Yes he set this all up and that's why he was screaming help for 45 seconds knowing that his neighbors would stay safely inside and not come to his add.

Isn't it true that Martin's girlfriend didn't find out about his death for a couple of days? And if that is the case then given what she claims she heard on the phone, wouldn't she have been worried why he wasn't calling her back? Or at least contacting his parents to let them know what she heard?

Have any of you been in a fight before and been afraid for your lives? You don't think Zimmerman may have tucked in his shirt or fixed himself up a little before going to the police station?

GZ was cuffed as soon as LE arrived and took his gun according to their records. jmo
 
Please move to the new thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167420"]FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
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