17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

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Florida has a hate crime statute as well. If there was a hate crime to be charged, the allegation of "[eff]ing punks" would have been something different (the slur) or would have been excluded entirely. Imo, they have conclusively established (by any applicable evidence standard) that there was no racial epithet uttered. Otherwise, they would have alleged it, or would have left the option open. Given the publicity around the initial slur allegation, there is no way they would have changed it to "punks" in the affidavit if that's not the story they are sticking to. It wasn't necessary to the murder 2 charge at all.

I was one of those who heard the "other word" but I said that I would concede it was something different if it was proven otherwise... and because it has been... I have conceded.

But... I will say that he did consider Trayvon an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**king punk" and when he stepped out of the car that night, that was his mindframe. Which is very damning, IMO.
 
Just jumping off your post here. I think we all prejudge to a certain degree. It is our nature. We can't help it. I am using your post dear one because every time I see a post from you - I run screaming from the room,, :floorlaugh: I KID!. Actually my brain immediately assigns your gender as male because of your pic/avatar. Now I KNOW that it is not you,that it is someone you are fighting for,but the way our brains work we see certain things and assume that it plays in each situation.
I know I am rambling but I just wanted to put this out there. I also wanted to do this with offending anyone because I do not know you beyond what you write on the posts.
Where I grew up -Savannah Ga and Where I have lived the past 10 years -Walterboro SC ,Whites were and are the minority. And some of the other groups were well known for their bad behaviors. It is like this all over the south. Sad but true. It is not because *Us White Folk* don't want to get along (with some exceptions), It is because the Black communities as a whole are suspicious of us. And a lot of them,ESPECIALLY TM's age embrace the Lifestyle. So even if we came across a good kid we would still be very cautious because our minds have already formed an opinion.

Just my Very Humble Opinion. I just do not think that people who have not lived it can make proper conclusions.
No, you don't have to live in the South to understand what you are saying. I spent several years living in a not great area of Oakland, CA (which is also predominantly black), and the crime rate was much higher than where I live now. Still, even with his internal profiling, GZ had no right to utter racial slurs, and he needed to stop following TM, once he called it in. He should also have declared to LE that he was "packing" as it is termed...
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with GZ apologizing to Trayvon's parents? I think it would be a good thing to do. It will not excuse him from what he did that night, because he will have to face the consequences of what he did... but I think it is a very good thing for him to apologize? I think that IF there can be a better understanding there could be a resolution without a nasty trial and there could be a PLEA to a manslaughter charge?

MOO


Very good points, Lola. This has been heated for so long we do need a bit of water for this fire. However, I do wonder if any apology GZ could offer would be accepted or would it just add more " trying to get sympathy for himself" for some?
 
Apologies if this has already been posted. For those interested in the probable cause affidavit, here's a link to the pdf ( link ).

Notably, GZ is alleged to have said, "f'ing punks" in the affidavit.
 
Mod note:

Hi y'all! Work has been mad so I've been scarce the past couple of days. Just catching up a bit.

I love thinking outside the box as much as anyone however, this is a fact based discussion thread. Not a theory thread. Gotta have links supported by facts to support any discussion. The walls are getting a bit sticky in here with all the spaghetti thrown tonight so please reel it in the theories that are not based in fact.

Thanks!
 
Very good points, Lola. This has been heated for so long we do need a bit of water for this fire. However, I do wonder if any apology GZ could offer would be accepted or would it just add more " trying to get sympathy for himself" for some?

Well, I think that GZ does feel some kind of guilt for what he did? How could he not? I personally think that it would be a good thing for him to apologize to Trayvon's parents? I think he owes them that much and I believe, if it is true that he wants to apologize, that he knows what he did that night was wrong.

With an apology, maybe something could be worked out where the charges could be downgraded to Manslaughter and also to make sure GZ gets the help for his issues... which I believe he has?

I have, from day 1, been 100% for Trayvon in this case and have been very vocal about an arrest being made... however, I have enough sense in me to know what I see? I think George is guilty... but I do not think George is a monster and I believe he does feel guilty and he does want to apologize because he knows he is not right.

All my opinion... obviously. But it doesn't always have to be about someone wanting to do something for self serving purposes. I really do believe he may want to apologize to Trayvon's parents?


MOO
 
I know that GZ admitted to shooting Tray.. but I can't get around the fact that he was heard asking "OMG what just happened here??" ... I think someone else was involved. Someone beat the crap out of GZ, maybe Tray was coming to try and help GZ since he was screaming for help. Maybe this person who beat the crap out out of GZ got his gun out, put it in GZ's hand and pulled the trigger on Tray... there are SO MANY maybes! I do not believe for one minute that GZ either confronted, or shot Tray on purpose. JMO

I must go eat before I go braindead.

Welcome to Websleuths! :welcome:

<modsnip>

I'm sorry but your theory doesn't fit what George himself told the 911 dispatcher and what all the witnesses heard and saw.

I don't think those are "maybes" unless you think that George doesn't exist, but his friend Frank Taaffe says he does. At least that's what he told Nancy Grace, <modsnip>

:websleuther:
 
I agree, Lola. I do believe GZ is sorry, not only for himself (let's be real, any of us would feel for ourselves) but also for Trayvon and his family. However, I don't see it happening. His lawyer (s) have certainly advised him to keep quiet at this point. Hopefully, in the near future we will see an apology. It would be good for our nation as a whole to heal and learn from this.
 
I agree, Lola. I do believe GZ is sorry, not only for himself (let's be real, any of us would feel for ourselves) but also for Trayvon and his family. However, I don't see it happening. His lawyer (s) have certainly advised him to keep quiet at this point. Hopefully, in the near future we will see an apology. It would be good for our nation as a whole to heal and learn from this.

Well, we also have to put into account that I went out tonight and had a few drinks... sooooo... I could actually be feeling just a tad bit more "sentimental" than I normally would be and maybe I am just wishing that it would be that way?

I have so many beautiful friends from everywhere... all races... all nationalities... all religions... and maybe I just wish other people had my life? The joy and the love I have in my life? The feeling of freedom and being able to go into my friends cultures and belong like I was one of their family?

I'm getting mushy now... :floorlaugh:
 
Bumping selected readings from the opening post of this thread.



Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.

Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.



Looking for news links? Have your found a good MSM story you'd like to share? Please post these links in the MEDIA LINKS No Discussion thread.


SOUND OFF Private Forum Companion Thread
Anyone feeling overheated or wishing to discuss the demonstrations, political, religious or racial aspects of the Trayvon Martin case, please check out our new forum in the private area of Websleuths accessible only to Websleuths members, called SOUND OFF.

Warning: Be sure to read the Required Read sticky post. Link to Trayvon Martin Sound Off Here
 
No, you don't have to live in the South to understand what you are saying. I spent several years living in a not great area of Oakland, CA (which is also predominantly black), and the crime rate was much higher than where I live now. Still, even with his internal profiling, GZ had no right to utter racial slurs, and he needed to stop following TM, once he called it in. He should also have declared to LE that he was "packing" as it is termed...

I am in no way defending GZ. Just trying to figure out his mindset. IMO TM was just walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is what started everything. But he did not have to die.
Sorry if I came off sounding Pro GZ
 
To the Black community, "You white folk" are well known for bad behavior. Hanging people, burning crosses, dragging people behind the back of pick up trucks etc...

That's why some of the Black community is suspicious of the White community. It goes waaay back.

Oh I am very well aware of that. I never said that they did not have cause.
 
Is it awful that I find myself to be one of the most hilarious people I know? :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Sorry Mod's ---
 
I have wondered that very same thing.

When GZ sent Taafe that voicemail message, he told Taafe that he was sorry about his son's death. Right before that Taafe had done an interview where he mentioned that he had lost a son.

If they were such good friends, wouldn't GZ had already known that Taafe had lost a son? Why would he be saying he was sorry so long after the fact? I think it was last year that Taafe's son passed away?

JMHO

That was so odd! Plus George called him MR Taaffe at the beginning of the message... MISTER?? That sounds like an acquaintance-type relationship (from HOA/NW meetings, then George supposedly 'saved the day' by stopping an imaginary burglary at Taaffe's). And I wonder how much Taaffe egged-on George over time, firing him up to "get" these supposed burglars. ALL JMO.

:moo:
 
Yesterday we heard from Zimmerman's attorney. It's refreshing to hear a seasoned attorney speak about his client.

O’Mara told Foreman he was surprised, but that the prosecutor “knows the evidence, I don’t yet, so it’s hard to comment on what I haven’t seen yet.” He added vaguely that “that type of crime [second-degree murder] suggests that he did something truly unlawful,” when he thought “there is at least question and controversy over what happened.” Asked if he had much time to review the case, O’Mara replied, “I truly am that new to it, I’ve seen only what has been shown in the media, I have had no other contact with the case. So it’s really difficult for me to speak at all.” He added that the next fifteen days will bring discovery procedures, so he will have time to quickly catch up with the details.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-z...out-ive-seen-only-what-has-been-in-the-media/
 
I was one of those who heard the "other word" but I said that I would concede it was something different if it was proven otherwise... and because it has been... I have conceded.

But... I will say that he did consider Trayvon an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**king punk" and when he stepped out of the car that night, that was his mindframe. Which is very damning, IMO.

Imo, you are a gracious person with integrity to do so {{{hugs}}}. I have had a long hard road of learning that being right is not all that important. And being wrong, and asking forgiveness if appropriate, is not a bad thing. Not to say that the latter applies to you. We all are human with our own experience, procilivities and opportunies to grow and change. I embrace it.

I have no doubt that GZ had a "fed up" issue. I'm not sure that I fault him for that if it's true that crime in the neighborhood escalated. I'm also very open to the possibility that he is a power tripping cop wanna-be. I've had personal experience with a relative who was that kind of person, so I can relate to it from personal experience.

And that is the important take away, imo. Everyone has a different background, experience and story to tell. We all are the same but, at the same time so extraordinarily different. We simply cannot know what's in each other's hearts. jmo
 
I am in no way defending GZ. Just trying to figure out his mindset. IMO TM was just walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is what started everything. But he did not have to die.
Sorry if I came off sounding Pro GZ

BBM


Really? Why do you say Trayvon was walking in the wrong place at the wrong time???? He had every dam/ right to be there!! Why was GZ, the self-appointed, zealot, racist, there?
 
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