Josh Powell Burial

Thank you, bessie.

Murderers die every day. They are murdered themselves, they commit suicide, they die of disease or accident. Some take innocent lives with them, and some don't.
No matter the situation, there are inevitably other living and innocent victims in these victimizers' lives... and personally, I think these 'left behind' victims are perhaps the most damaged of all. They have to live with every decision they have ever made- anything that may have inadvertantly aided a murderer.

My heart breaks for these victims nearly as much as it breaks for the victims of murderers.

I am glad that the issue of burial seems to have been resolved, but my heart will continue to break for the innocent members of both the Cox and the Powell families.

I cannot imagine having to make a decision of where to bury my child under such intense duress and pain- especially if I was fully aware of the terrible things my child had done. :(

The Cox's have been amazingly gracious throughout this terrible time. I think Josh's mother has returned that grace.

I hope WS's can continue that chain of grace.

Hope that makes sense.

:goodpost: Very nicely said.
 
That's same line of thinking Cindy Anthony reasoned when confronted with what her daughter did to her granddaughter by throwing her in a swamp. That the body no longer matters when the soul is gone. Although I believe what Cindy spewed that the body is just a shell it still doesn't mean you can go willy-nilly and disrespect both a murder victim (even if it is just their shell) and the loved ones of the murder victims.

A final resting place is supposed to be restful and peaceful. It truly isn't meant for the person who has already gone but is for the loved ones left behind. It would have been incredibly disrespectful for the Coxes to have to pass by Josh's grave to visit their grandsons. It's Josh who single evenhandedly wiped out the entire family. I see no reason to still allow him to control the family he killed even in death.

I think that anyone who treats a dead body like garbage, also had no respect for that soul who once inhabited that body. I treat my recently-deceased pets' bodies with respect and will even do that with any dead wildlife I see. As I see it, the body is/was the temple where that soul resided and deserves to be treated respectfully.

So JP had no respect for Susan since he dumped her body in some mine or whatever. He also had no respect for his sons either doing that to their bodies -- and kicking all 3 of them out of their bodies which he had no right at all to do.

Getting angry again. Sometimes I'm sitting at my PC and see his photo and the anger wells up and I yell "You SOB!!!" I guess I have no respect for JP's body since he didn't have respect for anyone else's. But if I were his sister or mother, I might feel differently, I admit.
 
Does the Mormon faith allow cremation? If this is an option, perhaps the family of Josh Powell should consider it. jmo
 
Does the Mormon faith allow cremation? If this is an option, perhaps the family of Josh Powell should consider it. jmo

Highly frowned upon, I do not know one practicing Member of the LDS church that has ever had a family member opt for cremation. Usually funerals are held with viewing of the body and are open casket.
 
It would be ironic if he were to be buried in a Mormom ceremony. Wasn't that the crux of the problem he and steve had with Susan?
 
I think that anyone who treats a dead body like garbage, also had no respect for that soul who once inhabited that body. I treat my recently-deceased pets' bodies with respect and will even do that with any dead wildlife I see. As I see it, the body is/was the temple where that soul resided and deserves to be treated respectfully.

So JP had no respect for Susan since he dumped her body in some mine or whatever. He also had no respect for his sons either doing that to their bodies -- and kicking all 3 of them out of their bodies which he had no right at all to do.

Getting angry again. Sometimes I'm sitting at my PC and see his photo and the anger wells up and I yell "You SOB!!!" I guess I have no respect for JP's body since he didn't have respect for anyone else's. But if I were his sister or mother, I might feel differently, I admit.

I agree with you; even in hunting, American Indian cultural practice is to honor the animal that is killed. jp had no respect for Susan, his sons or any one.

OT...DLT88, I carry a package of Bugler tobacco in the vehicle and have been known to stop and offer tobacco for deer, birds and other wildlife. :)
 
Highly frowned upon, I do not know one practicing Member of the LDS church that has ever had a family member opt for cremation. Usually funerals are held with viewing of the body and are open casket.

We had my father cremated, but only because that was his wish. It is unusual and not recommended, but not something anyone would do or say anything about.

Besides, Josh wasn't a Mormon anymore. He left the church and disavowed its teachings.
 
Highly frowned upon, I do not know one practicing Member of the LDS church that has ever had a family member opt for cremation. Usually funerals are held with viewing of the body and are open casket.

he is 1/2 on his way to being cremated by himself........
since he hated mormons so badly, maybe we can hope he is buried
in a mormon cemetary.
 
Herman Webster Mudgett, aka Dr. Henry Howard Holmes, a notorious serial murderer in the years before and during the World's Columbian Exposition (Chicago World's Fair) of 1893, was tried and hanged in Philadelphia, then buried in Holy Cross Cemetery (Roman Catholic), Delaware County, Pennsylvania, many states away from his family members in Massachusetts. He'd sell his victims' skeletons to medical schools. His evil deeds were notorious, yet the Archdiocese allowed his burial in one of their cemeteries. His executed body is encased in concrete and his grave has no headstone.

My point is, in Mudgett's case, even the most vile are buried among the law-abiding citizens of this world, but often, their graves are unmarked or have a simple stone with only initials and/or dates. Not all, but many.

I would imagine burying the notorious would be a huge problem for cemetery owners, managers, sextons.

One would hope the families of such people would be considerate of those who will be unknowingly burying their own loved ones near the grave of the notorious. :please:
 
I removed several posts that had veered way off track, and I could have removed more. The topic is JP's burial. Thank goodness, that issue seems to be resolved. The thread might close later, but while it's open please limit your comments to the controversy surrounding the Powell family's first choice to bury Josh at the same cemetery as the boys, and now his mother's announcement that they will not go forth with that decision, after all.

Thank you God that the resting place of these innocent children will not be marred by the remains of the animal (no offense to animals..they are better than he) that viciously took them from the earth. I have nothing but vile things to say about the monster. I would think the family might want to keep his grave location private.
 
JP's grandmother Ouita - of "you'll never see your mother again" fame - is buried with her husband Vacil in Grandview Cemetery, Yakima. A lot of this seems to have started with them. Maybe there's a plot there.

JMO
 
I'm trying to look at it like this - Josh Powell, himself, was once just like his little boys. Had he not been raised by a madman, only God knows what kind of person he could have been.

So true.

Not a burial matter, but: Does anyone know how Mormon theology understands the afterlife of Joshua and Susan and their children? In my limited understanding, the father of a family is the priesthood holder, and he and his wife and unmarried children spend eternity together, but also somehow in contact with other relatives.

Did Josh Powell effectively resign from the church with his horrendous actions? Is he presumed to be in Hell and away from Susan and their boys? Can he be rescued from his fate at some future time with a baptism-by-proxy ritual or did he prevent that remedy by consciously rejecting the church?

As we all should know by now, TOS prevents the bashing of Mormons and this is not an invitation to debate their beliefs. I would merely like to understand what they believe, if anyone here knows.

(ETA to Bessie: after I posted the above, I read your admonition for us to stay on topic. My questions don't seem to require a new thread and it seems related because it deals with issues of whether JP and his victims will share proximity after death. I'm merely asking about their souls now that the issue of their bodies seems to be resolved (well, except for Susan's, of course).)
 
So true.

Not a burial matter, but: Does anyone know how Mormon theology understands the afterlife of Joshua and Susan and their children? In my limited understanding, the father of a family is the priesthood holder, and he and his wife and unmarried children spend eternity together, but also somehow in contact with other relatives.

Did Josh Powell effectively resign from the church with his horrendous actions? Is he presumed to be in Hell and away from Susan and their boys? Can he be rescued from his fate at some future time with a baptism-by-proxy ritual or did he prevent that remedy by consciously rejecting the church?

As we all should know by now, TOS prevents the bashing of Mormons and this is not an invitation to debate their beliefs. I would merely like to understand what they believe, if anyone here knows.

My understanding is that Susan and the boys are together, since they were born to her under the seal of a temple marriage. Josh is most likely in hell, maybe even in a subhell known as "outer darkness." Of course, it's all up to God because, a God might find some mercy in the fact that JP was himself obviously abused. But then so was SP, evidently. We don't know how far back it goes or where evil starts or resides or who can be rehabbed - that's a God decision or job. Mormons do believe in choice, but how that is reconciled with early conditioning, etc. is, IIRC, up to God. Mormons who commit felonies are typically excommunicated, but some can be rebaptized after repentance.

Whether that could happen in a next life is probably up to a God. I don't know whether the church consciously does baptisms for the dead for those convicted of or suspected of serious crimes. My understanding is that baptisms for the dead are solely to give people an option who did not have the opportunity in this life. Clearly, JP had an opportunity and blew it - at least from what we can see and know. Living on earth is supposed to mean something, a chance to get a body and learn through living in that body and having experiences that can only happen here. I'm not sure whether people who blow that as utterly as he did get a "do-over."

BTW, Brigham Young - if I remember correctly - believed that some of the very wicked would not continue as souls but would be taken apart and reorganized in some way. While Mormons believe that the soul has a personality that existed before earth, and exists after earth (and will be reunited with its perfected eternal body after the 2nd coming), he seemed to think that there were souls so depraved that they were beyond help and they would need to start from scratch. Kind of wild, but when you think about all we are learning about DNA....maybe that just makes it wilder but somehow fitting when we read about people who really seem beyond help. Even Jeffrey Dahmer said he knew he was just completely unable to be helped.
 
BTW, if I remember correctly, Mormon theology would teach that Susan will be able to raise her boys - that the boys will be able to have a full life.

Maybe this happens in the millenium, the thousand years of peace after Christ's return...can't recall.

Also, because they died at that age, they are considered to have died completely without sin.
 
Thank you very much, dovebar. I really appreciate you sharing your recall. I'm always interested in what people think and why.
 
Thank you very much, dovebar. I really appreciate you sharing your recall. I'm always interested in what people think and why.

You're welcome. Maybe others will correct me if I screwed anything up. To answer your first question, presumably Susan and the boys are in contact with other family members who passed on before them. Just because JP was the priesthood holder in the marriage does not mean she was "stuck" with him eternally.

JP, we probably know less about who he might be with or where he is.

BTW, I believe the church is not so pro-cremation - unless it is part of the member's culture (Polynesian, FI?) - because they believe that the body will literally be revived after the Second Coming. Maybe cremation would make this more challenging. :)
 
since he was known to hate the mormon faith, did he take on any other faith?
Does SP practise any other faith?
 
since he was known to hate the mormon faith, did he take on any other faith?
Does SP practise any other faith?

He was going to another Christian church in the area. How heartfelt that was, and how much was for show, or to use the church's resources, only JP would know. I think it was nondenominational.
 
I am of the LDS (or "Mormon") faith. We believe that had Josh lived up to the principles of our church, he would have lived in eternity with Susan and the boys. Basically, since he committed such a horrific crime, he will never see Susan or the boys again. Susan will be able to raise her beautiful boys; and she will have the opportunity to find a deserving husband. She has true happiness now and so do the boys.

Dovebar is correct in many the explanation that he/she has provided.

Josh would not have a "baptism for the dead" performed for him. That is saved for those that did not have the opportunity here on this earth to be taught the LDS belief. I will not continue on about our religion, but I just wanted to answer the basic questioned asked.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
199
Guests online
1,676
Total visitors
1,875

Forum statistics

Threads
589,953
Messages
17,928,195
Members
228,015
Latest member
Amberraff
Back
Top