17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

katydid23 · May 3, 2012

suzihawk said:
Then shouldn't people also have to wait for the trial and evidence before they proclaim Trayvon to be a low life that was looking for trouble?

I guess if we all have to wait for the trial and evidence to express our opinions then none of us on either side has anything to discuss here.

I certainly don't think TM was a low life looking for trouble. And I don't think anyone else here has said as much either.

I have always said, even though you doubted me, that I think he should have been arrested that first night. When you expressed doubt that I have been consistent in that opinion, I even brought over my old posts to show that I have in fact ALWAYS said that.

I think GZ caused this tragedy when he got out of his truck and followed.

But I don't think it is fair to pile all of this other stuff on top of him without more evidence of that missing time.

Karmady · May 3, 2012

highflyer said:
The extreme opposition is because this is a victim friendly forum.

I understand that it's a victim friendly forum. I just don't think it's victim "unfriendly" to acknowledge what the victim's life was actually like, all the way around. jmo

suspicious1 · May 3, 2012

Just K said:
I sure hope so.

Me too.

Didn't LE take GZ back to the scene to do a re-enactment of what happened? Didn't they have GZ scream? Does that make sense?

I can't remember where I heard that.

If someone could refresh my memory I would appreciate it.

suzihawk · May 3, 2012

vlpate said:
Not to mention, a jury will not be subjected to all of the mainstream malpractice. By then the hyperbole will have abated - besides, a third NBC employee was fired today for editing the 911 tape, Lilia Luciano.

I know I couldn't make a decision right now, and certainly not for murder 1.

Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/14/t...and-his-available-defenses-under-florida-law/

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 782.04(2). Second degree murder.

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life[.]

katydid23 · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
I'm confused.

Are you saying that TM was an at-risk kid? Because early on I remember reading that he was an A and B student.

Also, what is the ada $ and how does it apply to Trayvon?

Was he an 'at risk' kid? In our school program, 'At Risk' meant at risk of not graduating.

If he was indeed suspended for 10 days, and if he did have a pipe on him at school, and if he did have unexplained jewelry on him, , with no explanation he was willing to give, and was guilty of school vandalism, then YES, I do think he was 'at risk' at that point , and in danger of maybe falling behind. He was certainly making poor choices. And ten days is a very long suspension. So he was at a cross roads, imo.

The A.D.A. is the way they decide how much to pay each school because of the average daily attendance. In California the schools are hurting for $, so they do not like kids to be out of school for any reason because they lose money each day a kid is off the campus. Even for excused absences these days it can cost them. So the administration thinks long and hard before they d=send a kid out on suspension. Usually now they do 'in-school suspensions' so they can keep the $ coming in. The only time they send the kid off campus is if the suspension is serious behavior problem.

suzihawk · May 3, 2012

Karmady said:
I understand that it's a victim friendly forum. I just don't think it's victim "unfriendly" to acknowledge what the victim's life was actually like, all the way around. jmo

In the past we've always had to have proof rather than speculation from unconfirmed sources before posting negative information about a victim - especially when the victim is a minor.

bessie · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
<pokes head out>

Question for mods?

If we were not allowed to discuss GZ's myspace account until it was verified that it was in fact his, how come posters are apparently allowed to discuss TM's Twitter/Facebook accounts/youtube videos when AFAIK those haven't been verified as in fact his?

Maybe I missed the verification?

:truce:

On 04/08/12, the Miami Herald reported the Twitter account did belong to TM. The article only vaguely references FB.

By cross-referencing tweets from his account with those of people mentioned throughout, The Miami Herald was able to show the account was, in fact, Trayvon Martins...

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/...ayvon-martins-social-media.html#storylink=cpy

That's the only social media account I'm aware has been verified at this time. So here's the deal. We can reference Twitter in the context in which it is reported in MSM. Other SM pages might be added later if they are verified. Posts must tie into MSM articles, and be sure to include a link. Post without links WILL BE removed.

Keep in mind TM was a minor, and normally we do not link to minors' SM pages. So tread very carefully with this topic.

AngelWings444 · May 3, 2012

katydid23 said:
I certainly don't think TM was a low life looking for trouble. And I don't think anyone else here has said as much either.

I have always said, even though you doubted me, that I think he should have been arrested that first night. When you expressed doubt that I have been consistent in that opinion, I even brought over my old posts to show that I have in fact ALWAYS said that.

I think GZ caused this tragedy when he got out of his truck and followed.

But I don't think it is fair to pile all of this other stuff on top of him without more evidence of that missing time.

Hi Katy - I have seen your posts where you think GZ should have been arrested the night he killed Trayvon, and I agree with you. I think there was a massive failure on the part of SPD, and they should be dealt with accordingly. Furthermore, I think that GZ's dad had an influence on him not being treated like every other criminal, and they failed Trayvon.

I do think the investigation is going forward, full force. I'm praying what the SPD did/didn't do that night, doesn't hamper justice.

Personally, I have been stunned today of the portrayal of Trayvon. He has been portrayed by some, as a and criminal. I'm not going to hunt down every quote and post, but I read it for myself, and it made me sick. He is dead, can't defend himself, and until LE says that Trayvon did something wrong that night, I am on the victim's side. GZ is charged with murder. Those charges do not come easy, in a case like this. In NO way, am I saying that you have portrayed him in that light, but others have.

Going forward, I pray for the truth, and I pray for justice. I've lost faith in our system, as of late (FCA). I can't imagine losing a child. My heart is broken for the Martin's. They have been a beacon of strength, and I admire them tremendously!

Karmady · May 3, 2012

suzihawk said:
In the past we've always had to have proof rather than speculation from unconfirmed sources before posting negative information about a victim - especially when the victim is a minor.

It's an msm source and has been linked and referenced multiple times in the past several pages on this thread.

vlpate · May 3, 2012

suzihawk said:
Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/14/t...and-his-available-defenses-under-florida-law/

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 782.04(2). Second degree murder.

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life[.]

I'm aware of what he's been "charged" with. I'm also aware he will claim self defense. There's been no verdict. I may have missed the point.

When KCA was on trial, everyone just knew she was guilty of murder based on what they'd seen in the media and read of the evidence - in most cases not considering any of those jurors could find her anything but guilty, slam dunk. For three years, thread after thread after thread after thread - we all proclaimed her guilty. Lo and behold, the jury found differently. I don't want to miss something this time. JMO

IzzyBlanche · May 3, 2012

katydid23 said:
Was he an 'at risk' kid? In our school program, 'At Risk' meant at risk of not graduating.

If he was indeed suspended for 10 days, and if he did have a pipe on him at school, and if he did have unexplained jewelry on him, , with no explanation he was willing to give, and was guilty of school vandalism, then YES, I do think he was 'at risk' at that point , and in danger of maybe falling behind. He was certainly making poor choices. And ten days is a very long suspension. So he was at a cross roads, imo.

The A.D.A. is the way they decide how much to pay each school because of the average daily attendance. In California the schools are hurting for $, so they do not like kids to be out of school for any reason because they lose money each day a kid is off the campus. Even for excused absences these days it can cost them. So the administration thinks long and hard before they d=send a kid out on suspension. Usually now they do 'in-school suspensions' so they can keep the $ coming in. The only time they send the kid off campus is if the suspension is serious behavior problem.

Thank you and I see now that my initial question was unclear. I understand how you might, with your experience, classify him as an at-risk kid. But that is from a distance, without any information about him except what's been reported in the media, right? And again he must not have been falling too much behind if my memory serves me correctly and he was an A and B student?

I meant with my question, where has it been officially reported that any professionals who dealt with him personally considered him at-risk?

With regard to the next paragraph, very interesting information. Is this true in Florida as well?

vlpate · May 3, 2012

suzihawk said:
Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/14/t...and-his-available-defenses-under-florida-law/

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 782.04(2). Second degree murder.

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life[.]

haha, I see what you were pointing out now - murder II - typo, thanks!

IzzyBlanche · May 3, 2012

Karmady said:
I understand that it's a victim friendly forum. I just don't think it's victim "unfriendly" to acknowledge what the victim's life was actually like, all the way around. jmo

suzihawk · May 3, 2012

vlpate said:
Not to mention, a jury will not be subjected to all of the mainstream malpractice. By then the hyperbole will have abated - besides, a third NBC employee was fired today for editing the 911 tape, Lilia Luciano.

I know I couldn't make a decision right now, and certainly not for murder 1.

vlpate said:
I'm aware of what he's been "charged" with. I'm also aware he will claim self defense. There's been no verdict. I may have missed the point.

When KCA was on trial, everyone just knew she was guilty of murder based on what they'd seen in the media and read of the evidence - in most cases not considering any of those jurors could find her anything but guilty, slam dunk. For three years, thread after thread after thread after thread - we all proclaimed her guilty. Lo and behold, the jury found differently. I don't want to miss something this time. JMO

You mentioned murder 1 in the post I was responding to.

vlpate · May 3, 2012

highflyer said:
The extreme opposition is because this is a victim friendly forum.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7843516&postcount=467"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #34[/ame]

Beach:
"Websleuths respects TRUTHS, FACTS AND OPINIONS from BOTH SIDES OF ANY GIVEN ISSUE.

We are a victim friendly forum however the INCESSANT alerts on mere differences of opinion and those by anyone who dares to paint Trayvon as less than a golden child is going to stop right now. He was a 17 yr. old kid and I have yet to meet a perfect one. Doesn't in anyway mean he deserved to die, however the truth is fair game for discussion and not to be considered bashing.

There is a clear gang mentality forming. CUT IT OUT NOW. This is not an Pro-Trayvon cheerleading forum where all other opinions and facts are to be dismissed. I see so many people with their feet firmly planted and responding to those with whom they disagree with a complete lack of tolerance or respect. I am done with that kind of stuff. Done.
<respectfully snipped for emphasis>

vlpate · May 3, 2012

suzihawk said:
You mentioned murder 1 in the post I was responding to.

:gthanks:

katydid23 · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
Thank you and I see now that my initial question was unclear. I understand how you might, with your experience, classify him as an at-risk kid. But that is from a distance, without any information about him except what's been reported in the media, right? And again he must not have been falling too much behind if my memory serves me correctly and he was an A and B student?

I meant with my question, where has it been officially reported that any professionals who dealt with him personally considered him at-risk?

With regard to the next paragraph, very interesting information. Is this true in Florida as well?

It is probably true for Florida as well because all of the states bill the govt. for educational funds of some kind,and the average daily attendance is the equation that they use.

And yes, I can only look at his situation at a distance, obviously. But having three suspensions could affect college admission unless he immediately got back on track. And his GPA would absolutely be affected as well.

vlpate · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
<insert obvious rape victim analogy>

Karmady · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
<insert obvious rape victim analogy>

yeah....no. That reasoning would only apply if I thought it had something to do with guilt or innocence. I've made it very clear that I don't think the information has anything to do with THIS case. Which is why I don't think it's victim "unfriendly." It's just information in the msm that some seem to be extremely opposed to even knowing. jmo

vlpate · May 3, 2012

IzzyBlanche said:
BBM. I'm confused.

Are you saying that TM was an at-risk kid? Because early on I remember reading that he was an A and B student.

Also, what is the ada $ and how does it apply to Trayvon?

"He was doing average in school, a little bit better when he was at Carol City and then I had him transferred,'' Sybrina Fulton said, according to the Miami Herald. "I thought Krop was a better school and I wanted a different environment for him. My oldest son has graduated from there.''
In his junior year at Krop, Martin's favorite subject was math, according to his father.
"He was just an average student," he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/index.html

17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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