8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

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Regarding reports that Diane was a heavy drinker, all I found were some early reports (from 2009) in the NYT and New York Post which quoted the sister-in-law about the occasional pot smoking and then said that one of the attorneys claimed she had told the D.A. that Diane was a heavy drinker. I assume that wasn't what anyone said because, two years later and after the documentary, I haven't read an actual quote of someone stating that. I assume the sister-in-law was Jay, and we know in the documentary she talked about the occasional pot smoking. Unless there is a "Joan" who is married to one of Diane's brothers, I don't think that statement was made.
 
Nova said:
I don't remember the context of that post, tm. If I used that phrase, I almost certainly meant it in the psychological sense, not in the sense that we say a child "acts out." I'm sure I meant the phrase as in this Wiki definition:
*snipped*

I still maintain, however, that they should be judged by the same standards as grievers. The hatred directed at Dan Schuler strikes me as highly inappropriate (talk about "acting out"!), particularly from people who have never lost a spouse and child.
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It was post 700 if you want to look it up.

The behaviors I criticized were ones put out there for public consumption.

How do you know I have not lost a spouse or a child? You're doing a lot of assuming here.
 
twinkiesmom said:
It was post 700 if you want to look it up.

The behaviors I criticized were ones put out there for public consumption.

How do you know I have not lost a spouse or a child? You're doing a lot of assuming here.
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We don't know. There are a lot of assumptions all around. IMO.
 
twinkiesmom said:
It was post 700 if you want to look it up.

The behaviors I criticized were ones put out there for public consumption.

How do you know I have not lost a spouse or a child? You're doing a lot of assuming here.
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I was making a general statement, hence the reference to "people who...."

That wasn't directed at you personally.

***

I'll go look at post #700 and add a reply in a minute...

ETA Here's the line you reference:

Or maybe Schuler and the Hances are acting out their displaced anger in the courtroom. At this point, we just don't know.
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I think it's clearly a hypothetical statement, tm. That's why I used the word "maybe." My point was just that we don't know these people personally and shouldn't assume we have perfect knowledge of their motivations.

But earlier in the same post, I suggest that the Hances are displacing their anger at Diane. I should have referred to the Bastardi relatives as it was their comments I was recalling. I would edit the post if I could. (The comment in question was that they had forgiven Diane, but couldn't forgive Dan because he hadn't apologized or sent a note of consolation. That's displacement, but it was Mr. Bastardi's daughters speaking.)

But suggesting the Hances or other survivors may be displacing their anger is hardly "going after" them. At worst, it merely suggests they are human beings.
 
Fairy1 said:
We don't know. There are a lot of assumptions all around. IMO.
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In this case, the assumption was that I was referring to a specific poster.

I was not.
 
Fairy1 said:
Lacking conclusive proof, I don't find it to be either a logical conclusion nor important to the case. It's really neither here nor there. IMO. It's pointless to draw any conclusion as to Diane's regular drinking habits. Speculation or otherwise. Anyone who may have associated with Diane in purely social situations where drinking was common could easily have come to the conclusion that she was a "heavy drinker." If they didn't see her or interact with her regularly, it's still just an assumption.

As far as the one friend who claimed she regularly drank "after work" goes.....it really doesn't sound to me she had time for that.

In any case, Daniel wasn't there.
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I think Diane's drinking habits are important to the case - in trying to determine how THAT much alcohol was consumed by her early in the day and during a time when she was responsible for a gaggle of kids.

From my point of view, someone who drinks as much as she did that morning has real experience with drinking. I think the reason that there aren't a lot of people able to say that she drank alot is due to the fact that, for the most part, she drank alone in private.

I would be willing to bet that for quite some time, she drank and smoked pot in the evenings while she was alone caring for the kids and her husband was at work. Dan and Diane's opposite work schedules made it easy for her to keep her habits hidden from him and others.
 
Stella5 said:
But why didn't she take the children inside the store with her? I have 5 kids and I never left them in the car alone, no matter how inconvenient to me (snow, hot, etc...) The video appears to look like she begins fueling the van, goes into the store, and then finishes putting the gas nuzzle away after coming out of the store... would you leave 5 kids inside a van that you were fueling?! Never in your right mind! Too much can go wrong! IMO her actions in the video show me someone who is coming in checking out what is for sale BEHIND the clerk... which here is liquor, cigarettes, cigars, etc... Advil, Tylenol, Ibuprofen, etc... is usually on the first aisle when you walk into a convenience store, or sold right at the counter. I have never seen a convenience store at a gas station not sell at the very least aspirin. These days you can even get allergy meds there. I think she was looking for liquor and was told it wasn't sold on Sundays MOO.
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I'm not sure what she ran into the store to look for, but it seems like she knew she was just going to pop in quickly (because that's what she did). If I were her, I would be comfortable leaving the kids in the car with a 9-year-old while I quickly ran into a convenience store. I don't find that decision odd or questionable - it's more a matter of different comfort levels for different people.

Also, this was an area she knew, so I am sure she knew whether or not they sold alcohol on Sundays - I don't think alcohol was what she was seeking - moo.
 
southcitymom said:
Dan and Diane's opposite work schedules made it easy for her to keep her habits hidden from him and others.
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Good point! If she was a chronic heavy drinker, I would think it would show in her liver to some degree, however, her autopsy indicates her liver is basically normal - but, she was only 36, and there are lots of alcoholics who amazingly do not get cirrhosis....so, I lean toward her being a regular drinker who used alcohol the same way some use medication, in other words, I do not think she thought she was an alcoholic, but she most likely was.
 
Hello everyone:seeya: This is my first post on the thread. 3rd alll together. Woo hoo. This case has mesmerized me since it happened. I've read ALL of your posts and threads since the beginning. Sheer horror. You are an amazing bunch!:great:


My thoughts:
I remember one post (a police report that said she went to McDonalds a second time and drove toward the truck parking). This is where I think she smoked the pot - and it was within an hour of the accident. I think she "decided" to have a few drinks to "relax" herself (yes, I think she was a closet alcoholic) -- the urge took over, much like it does for any of us that are addicted to food, shopping, anything. She drank too much too fast and got drunk, which in itself causes all types of different, erratic behaviors. She had to keep pulling over to vomit. I suspect she smoked the pot to relieve the nausea - and between the combo - got out of her mind smashed and possibly blacked out (while still functioning on autopilot). .......BUT, even as I say all these words, I still cannot imagine doing all of this - even on one's deathbed, even if one were in a coma, with 5 other lives in your car. THAT is the part that continues to baffle me -- my brain simply cannot comprehend.

Please do share - is this case still being investigated or is it a closed door?

I do think she committed murder - much like Andrea Yates and Susan (who rolled her car into the water).....did she also willingly commit suicide? Uggg. This case will forever haunt me.

Thank you for listening.



Stella5 said:
This is the one I read... however I'm assuming it's not the complete report. I don't see any drawings, recreations, etc... that is typical here. Hopefully this is okay to post, if not my apologies.

http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/policereport/schuler, diane_police_report.pdf
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...I guess what mesmerizes me is this....it wasn't just murdering her own children, but also murdering children that were not her own, but were in her care, killing herself, and murdering random strangers on a highway. I think on top of the alcohol and the pot, she had some serious emotional/mental issues. Was she in a rage? Was this deliberate? Perhaps not intentional and premeditated from the start - but a deliberate act whens something snapped?
 
GutInstinct said:
I do think she committed murder - much like Andrea Yates and Susan (who rolled her car into the water).....did she also willingly commit suicide? Uggg. This case will forever haunt me.

Thank you for listening.
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Welcome....There's a really good summary of the intentional murder/suicide theory at the following:
http://pysih.com/2011/08/07/diane-schuler-an-interesting-perspective-downloadable-version/

The main argument here is that in stopping to set her phone down she was preventing the kids from calling their folks again and gathering courage for her final exit.

There's a really good summary of the addiction/intoxication theory at
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/013926.html
*This site has politically incorrect rhetoric...not for the easily offended.*

This site traces her behavior to level of intoxication as she drove the route...It also has a list of other wrong-way drivers who were intoxicated but not suicidal (e.g., Michael Gagnon).

1. Normal driving on the ten mile trip from the campground to the McDonald's in Liberty.
Diane Schuler wasn't yet intoxicated.

2. Highly aggressive driving on Route 17 and I-87.
Shows first effects of alcohol and marijuana on the body. Diane Schuler had the characteristic personality changes of intoxication.

3, Disoriented and having trouble seeing before speaking to Warren Hance from east side of Tappan Zee bridge.
Shows increasing effects of alcohol and marijuana on Mrs. Schuler as the alcohol and THC were metabolized by the body.

4. "Tunnel vision" or zombie-like driving leading up to the crash.
Shows extreme effects of excessive intoxication possibly leading to coma. Alcohol is a sedative. Toxicology reports show that Diane Schuler still had unmetabolized alcohol in her stomach. As her blood alcohol content kept going up, the deleterious effects of alcohol kept increasing. Her body was still metabolizing ever-increased amounts of alcohol and this led to her death.

(I'm not connected with either of these sites...found on google search.)
 
GutInstinct said:
Hello everyone:seeya: This is my first post on the thread. 3rd alll together. Woo hoo. This case has mesmerized me since it happened. I've read ALL of your posts and threads since the beginning. Sheer horror. You are an amazing bunch!:great:


My thoughts:
I remember one post (a police report that said she went to McDonalds a second time and drove toward the truck parking). This is where I think she smoked the pot - and it was within an hour of the accident. I think she "decided" to have a few drinks to "relax" herself (yes, I think she was a closet alcoholic) -- the urge took over, much like it does for any of us that are addicted to food, shopping, anything. She drank too much too fast and got drunk, which in itself causes all types of different, erratic behaviors. She had to keep pulling over to vomit. I suspect she smoked the pot to relieve the nausea - and between the combo - got out of her mind smashed and possibly blacked out (while still functioning on autopilot). .......BUT, even as I say all these words, I still cannot imagine doing all of this - even on one's deathbed, even if one were in a coma, with 5 other lives in your car. THAT is the part that continues to baffle me -- my brain simply cannot comprehend.

Please do share - is this case still being investigated or is it a closed door?

I do think she committed murder - much like Andrea Yates and Susan (who rolled her car into the water).....did she also willingly commit suicide? Uggg. This case will forever haunt me.

Thank you for listening.
Click to expand...

BBM IMO, if Diane Schuler was deliberately impaired whilst behind the wheel of that vehicle, then yes, I too agree that it was murderous and she is deserving of no more empathy than is granted a run of the mill homicidal individual who takes someone's life without mitigating circumstances, ie: Susan Smith. However, I have a tremendous amount of empathy for Andrea Yates and believe her situation is ENTIRELY different and should not be lumped in with the above examples. Andrea Yates is/was a tragic figure and from all accounts she was legitimately mentally ill when she killed her children. Did she murder them? Yes. Were her actions beyond her control? Yes. I realize I'm getting OT but on behalf of those who have known the hell of PPD, I cringe whenever I note Andrea Yate's name being lumped in with garden variety homicide and filicide. Hers is a very complex and misunderstood case. These others, not so much..... I agree with you though, the Schuler case, at least at this point, is beyond my comprehension as well.
 
Good and valid point animlzrule. You are correct. Andrea Y is a completely different situation. I should know. I had a Mother very much like Andrea Y. Very mentally ill.
 
GutInstinct said:
...I guess what mesmerizes me is this....it wasn't just murdering her own children, but also murdering children that were not her own, but were in her care, killing herself, and murdering random strangers on a highway. I think on top of the alcohol and the pot, she had some serious emotional/mental issues. Was she in a rage? Was this deliberate? Perhaps not intentional and premeditated from the start - but a deliberate act whens something snapped?
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Welcome!!!

I disagree. I can see Diane as someone with the personality to kill herself and her OWN babies - particularly knowing that Daniel said he "never wanted to have kids." But her nieces? No. I will never believe that this was intentional. She had plenty of opportunity to carry out her death wish without involving anyone other than herself and her own children.
 
southcitymom said:
I think Diane's drinking habits are important to the case - in trying to determine how THAT much alcohol was consumed by her early in the day and during a time when she was responsible for a gaggle of kids.

From my point of view, someone who drinks as much as she did that morning has real experience with drinking. I think the reason that there aren't a lot of people able to say that she drank alot is due to the fact that, for the most part, she drank alone in private.

I would be willing to bet that for quite some time, she drank and smoked pot in the evenings while she was alone caring for the kids and her husband was at work. Dan and Diane's opposite work schedules made it easy for her to keep her habits hidden from him and others.
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BBM

I agree and I agree. But is it not possible that she drank the amount of alcohol she drank that day because she didn't know the effect it would have on her?

Still, IDK why her drinking habits are relevant. Whether she was an alcoholic or a moderate drinker, her choices that day were fatal. IMO, Daniel is NOT responsible either way.
 
Fairy1 said:
Still, IDK why her drinking habits are relevant. Whether she was an alcoholic or a moderate drinker, her choices that day were fatal. IMO, Daniel is NOT responsible either way.
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Maybe her previous *drinking* habits are irrelevant, but I think what's incredibly relevant is the fact that everyone agrees that she regularly smoked pot. If that weren't the case and she was someone who wouldn't even know where to GET it, I would be more apt to think the THC in her system, which potentiated the effects of the alcohol and vice versa, was some sort of anomaly, but I think the fact that she was a habitual pot smoker should make it very clear that it was not outside the realm of possibility that she was high (and drunk), which her family tried to assert for the last couple of years.

WHY she allowed herself to get so intoxicated, we'll never know, but I doubt it was dental pain.
 
PoppyMcTwist said:
Straight line in, abrupt turn, straight line out. Very deliberate. She never veered into an aisle to find aspirin, painkillers, or anything. Whatever she wanted, she wanted it quickly. Combine that with the way she pulled out of the gas station on the wrong side, barely pausing for traffic (children are not alone now), and I see a woman who is feeling hurried and anxious even though the trip has just begun.

IMO
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I basically saw the same thing. It didn't even look like she spoke to anyone, which is what you would do if you wanted to know if a convenience store/gas station had something and you couldn't find it. Sometimes they keep it near or behind the counter. In fact, I can't think of a single gas station that has beverages, etc that hasn't also had various medicine. Yeah, it's three times more than you'd pay at Walgreens, but they have it.
 
southcitymom said:
BBM

I had these same questions. If she had a little stash, where was it? Even if she smoked a joint in a bathroom, I feel sure she would have kept the roach and tucked it in her pocket or purse.

I agree with Nova that no smoking went on in front of the kids. But I can tell you from personal experience that it's not difficult to sneak off and smoke a little pot away from disapproving eyes.
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She could have stopped several times into a gas station bathroom or other place on the side of the road. She also could have ingested it in another form. Some people make a tincture or "concentrate" of it or put it in baked goods or other foods. Smoking is not the only way to get high from marijuana.
 
Fairy1 said:
Still, IDK why her drinking habits are relevant. Whether she was an alcoholic or a moderate drinker, her choices that day were fatal. IMO, Daniel is NOT responsible either way.
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Her drinking habits are relevant because we want to know why this happened. That's why we're here...to discuss this case.

My opinion only....not a lawyer....But if he knew she was smoking pot at the campground all night before she took the kids, I think he could be facing some civil liability.
 
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