Kyron Horman's mom's civil suit against Terri Horman

Jack said:

I don,t think the point of not fighting for her daughter is relevant. If you had the choice of possibly going to prison for life, pretty much ending any possibility of any kind of relationship with your child, or doing what you could to try to salvage some sort of a relationship somewhere down the line which would you do? Rhetorical question... we all like to think we know what we would do.

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If she is innocent, those are not her only two options. Besides which, going ahead with the divorce trial does not put her at risk of going to prison for life, and almost certainly offers the possibility of being granted visitation with Baby K. She won't get visitation unless she asks for it, and the reason she hasn't asked for visitation in a divorce trial is… because to do so would "jeopardize her 5th amendment rights not to incriminate herself" according to her lawyer. If she is innocent, she shouldn't have anything to say in the divorce trial that could possibly be incriminating.

Chili Fries said:

Yeah the reporting hasn't been exactly clear but it does seem that the last time he was seen was at 8:45, which is also when Terri said she left, but he wasn't marked absent until 9:45 - 10, when the classes convened after the science fair tours. That report sounds like the sub marked him absent and left, so his regular teacher, Kristina Porter, probably didn't have a reason to think anything was amiss. My guess is also that nobody was worried about Kyron not being with a group during the science fair tours (that had been going on from 8-10) because they had seen him with Terri and just assumed he was touring the projects with her.

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I'm convinced that the teacher thought Kyron was leaving with Terri for an appointment with a doctor. I believe Terri gave the teacher deliberately ambiguous information about when the appointment was supposed to be. That is why no one was concerned that he wasn't there with the group. Kyron himself very likely was told that he had an appointment. That would be the simplest way to get him back outside and into the truck. Terri waits until the hallways are clear, or nearly clear, just as the students are supposed to be meeting with their groups. She could have even sent Kyron to the bathroom just at the last few minutes. So, she's in the hall alone with baby K, appearing to leave; the students go to their classes; The halls are clear; Kyron comes out of the bathroom and walks out the door with Terri to the truck with no one around to see them. The perfect thing about her plan is that she could have aborted at any time if she was seen or bumped into someone. She could have even actually taken him to the doctor and feigned confusion herself about the appointment date. It is precisely because she was not a stranger to him that she was able to move through these steps with him without fear. It wasn't like she was going to be suspicious if she WAS seen with him. The information about the teacher and the doctor appointment seems to have gotten shushed fairly early on. It may be some of the best evidence they have, but without a body, it's not enough for a murder conviction. It may be more than plenty for custodial interference in a civil trail. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
Terri Horman vague on time of doctor appointment:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html

greenpalm said:

If she is innocent, those are not her only two options. Besides which, going ahead with the divorce trial does not put her at risk of going to prison for life, and almost certainly offers the possibility of being granted visitation with Baby K. She won't get visitation unless she asks for it, and the reason she hasn't asked for visitation in a divorce trial is… because to do so would "jeopardize her 5th amendment rights not to incriminate herself" according to her lawyer. If she is innocent, she shouldn't have anything to say in the divorce trial that could possibly be incriminating.



I'm convinced that the teacher thought Kyron was leaving with Terri for an appointment with a doctor. I believe Terri gave the teacher deliberately ambiguous information about when the appointment was supposed to be. That is why no one was concerned that he wasn't there with the group. Kyron himself very likely was told that he had an appointment. That would be the simplest way to get him back outside and into the truck. Terri waits until the hallways are clear, or nearly clear, just as the students are supposed to be meeting with their groups. She could have even sent Kyron to the bathroom just at the last few minutes. So, she's in the hall alone with baby K, appearing to leave; the students go to their classes; The halls are clear; Kyron comes out of the bathroom and walks out the door with Terri to the truck with no one around to see them. The perfect thing about her plan is that she could have aborted at any time if she was seen or bumped into someone. She could have even actually taken him to the doctor and feigned confusion herself about the appointment date. It is precisely because she was not a stranger to him that she was able to move through these steps with him without fear. It wasn't like she was going to be suspicious if she WAS seen with him. The information about the teacher and the doctor appointment seems to have gotten shushed fairly early on. It may be some of the best evidence they have, but without a body, it's not enough for a murder conviction. It may be more than plenty for custodial interference in a civil trail. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
Terri Horman vague on time of doctor appointment:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html

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Exactly. Your post was very well written.

JeannaT said:

No, they didn't. It's likely that whoever kidnapped him wasn't easily recognizable to the teachers and students - they could easily come and go with no one making a mental note of who they were. With Terri, pretty much anyone who saw her knew her there, and then could remember that evening they saw her leaving with him.

Not so someone they don't know, who may have been pushing a large wheeled garbage can or footlocker. Not memorable.

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Have you ever visited Skyline School? Are you familiar with the layout of the school, the grounds, and the area in general? I am. Please, if you are in the local area visit the school and play out the possible scenario in your mind of how Terri could have removed Kyron from the school. Actually, because she was known and had supposedly volunteered in Kyron's classroom, she would have been less noticeable when seen at the school. She was also familiar with the layout and routines of Skyline School. Because Kyron knew Terri and would have followed her orders, it made it that much easier to remove him from the school without anyone noticing. Skyline is a very small, rural area; I find it extremely unlikely that someone would risk walking into the school and snatching a child. There are easier ways to abduct a child. I also take into consideration that the window of opportunity for such an abduction to occur would have been just 15 minutes--Terri claimed that she left Kyron in the hallway near his classroom just 15 minutes before all of the students were to be in the classroom and divided into groups to tour the science fair. That means that someone just happened to walk into that school and zero in on the one child whose caretaker just happened to leave the school minutes before. The same child whose stepmother just happens to have told the teacher she was taking him for a doctor's appointment that day and claimed that the teacher misunderstood her. Oh, but Ms. Porter is deaf in one ear and it was her first year teaching, (cough, cough)....right.....

DY's lawsuit, IMO, is an end run around a search warrant for electronic evidence requested by MSCO which was denied, the probable cause in criminal cases being more stringent than that for "discovery" in civil cases. Maybe MSCO found an interesting rabbit trail in their parsing of electronic evidence, asked for a search warrant and/or survellience; but to a judge, the request looked like a fishing expedition. (Sorry. Not sure why one would follow a rabbit trail on fishing expedition, but you get the idea.)

IMO, Kaine --given the divorce -- is in a poor position to file a "custodial" suit. Wouldn't the Court need to weigh the merits of the custodial civil suit in light of the divorce proceedings? But Desiree is an entirely different story.

Consider a couple of key quotes. First, from Desiree's attorney:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/156429105.html

"Young's lawyer, Elden Rosenthal, said he intends to use subpoena power to uncover new evidence about the case, including e-mails and text messages. 'There are tools available to me that will allow us to peel away the mystery surrounding Kyron's disappearance,' he said."

And ... the following quote from Kaine (same article):

"This whole situation is about finding Kyron," he said. "There's no mistake about it whether we're going through a divorce or processing another part of the case that's involved with this or what have you, the discussions are always, what's the best approach to bring him home."

And, then, from this report (http://www.katu.com/news/local/157117965.html)

The lawsuit alleges Terri Horman kidnapped Kyron and Young is seeking $10 million. She wants Terri Horman to reveal where Kyron or his remains are now.

"I think at this point in time, the gloves are off so to speak," Kaine says. "You can say, 'Why weren't they off last year?' We were waist deep in a lot of technical detail on an ongoing investigation, and we thought we were going to get some things that were going to break it, and we didn't. And so here we are and continue to take the approach of whatever we need to do that fits within that box of not jeopardizing what's currently going on."

:seeya: Good Morning,

I was wondering if anyone may know the answer to this, as I am not familiar with Oregon laws:

Desiree's "Complaint" was filed with the Court on June 1, 2012.

- Does anyone know when Terri's "Answer" needs to be filed in court ? How many days does she have to respond, and I am guessing that at least one "extension" would be allowed ?

- Is Houze representing Terri in this civil matter as well ?

I doubt that we will learn anything from Terri's "Answer" ... but I am anxious and hoping to see some "progress" in this case !

TIA !

:moo:

dog.gone.cute said:

:seeya: Good Morning,

I was wondering if anyone may know the answer to this, as I am not familiar with Oregon laws:

- Desiree's "Complaint" was filed with the Court on June 1, 2012.

- Does anyone know when Terri's "Answer" needs to be filed in court ?

- Is Houze representing Terri in this civil matter as well ?

TIA !

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One of the early articles I read said TH has 30 days to respond. And as far as we know, Houze is still her attorney.

Houze link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ing-desiree-young-terri-horman_n_1563986.html

Can't find the 30 day response link quickly and I'm on my way out the door.

Kimster said:

One of the early articles I read said TH has 30 days to respond. And as far as we know, Houze is still her attorney.

Houze link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ing-desiree-young-terri-horman_n_1563986.html

Can't find the 30 day response link quickly and I'm on my way out the door.

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Thirty days is correct. I have my doubts as to whether Houze will handle this for her since he is a criminal attorney and doesn't generally handle civil cases. However, since this is such a sensitive manner, he may not want another attorney--and their staff--involved. He may go ahead and handle this anyway so that he doesn't have to share information with another office. The more people who know a secret, the more likely it is to be widely disseminated.

It could also be that he will file an answer or at least a notice of appearance, which will give TM more time to find an attorney to take over the civil suit.

Kimster said:

One of the early articles I read said TH has 30 days to respond. And as far as we know, Houze is still her attorney.

Houze link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ing-desiree-young-terri-horman_n_1563986.html

Can't find the 30 day response link quickly and I'm on my way out the door.

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:tyou: Kimster !


I will be anxiously :waiting: for her response.

:moo:

Didn't Peter Bunch also represent her? Is he strictly a divorce atty or would he have a role in the civil case?

gwenabob said:

Thirty days is correct. I have my doubts as to whether Houze will handle this for her since he is a criminal attorney and doesn't generally handle civil cases. However, since this is such a sensitive manner, he may not want another attorney--and their staff--involved. He may go ahead and handle this anyway so that he doesn't have to share information with another office. The more people who know a secret, the more likely it is to be widely disseminated.

It could also be that he will file an answer or at least a notice of appearance, which will give TM more time to find an attorney to take over the civil suit.

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RBBM: That is a great point, gwenabob !

JMO ... but the less people who know a "secret", the better it may stay a "secret" ...

:moo:

:seeya: Checking in to see if there is any news ...

Lawsuit filed June 1 ... 30 days for Terri to file response = July 1 ...

lease: I hope we hear something by then ...

lease: that Kyron is found soon !

YouTube video about lawsuit and ways to donate to help fund the lawsuit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ug25tr4vcs"]Justice for Kyron Horman (PLEASE DONATE & PLEASE SHARE) - YouTube[/ame]

Shouldn't we be hearing something from TH's attorney regarding the lawsuit? It's been 30 days during which time Terri's response was requested. Court closed on Sunday, probably closed July 4, too. Perhaps we'll learn something tomorrow or Tuesday.

The lawsuit was filed June 1, but I haven't heard when Houze or TH were served. There is a rumor that papers were served on June 12, so a response would not be expected until July 12.

My expectations are for hearing something sometime during the first two weeks of July.

Expectations for learning true facts anytime soon are low.

Doodles said:

The lawsuit was filed June 1, but I haven't heard when Houze or TH were served. There is a rumor that papers were served on June 12, so a response would not be expected until July 12.

My expectations are for hearing something sometime during the first two weeks of July.

Expectations for learning true facts anytime soon are low.

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According to OJIN, she was served 6/4/12. The answer will be due 30 days from that date, but with the holiday, that would mean July 5th. Don't expect a lot, folks. IF her attorney does not get an extension, I expect it will simply be a lot of deny, deny, deny.

I'm glad that something is happening. With Etan Patz, it took a basement search to make someone call in a tip that might be legit- whatever happened to Kyron, someone knows. The more he is in the news, the better.

This child haunts me. His sweet little spirit has the right to come home.

gwenabob is right. Most of the questions will be answered with something saying "denies allegations in paragraph number x." The only questions that will have any other sort of answer will be full name, address, etc...

I'm not certain this suit will bring any new info to light, or even hold up, when nothing will be said. It may just be a waste of time and wishful thinking as Kyron has not been found, and there is still no evidence where he is. Perhaps they are using some cell phone records to try to get more info, I really don't know. However, with cell tower triangulations, those questions will be met with the previous answers.

I just wish Kyron would be found.

21merc7 said:

gwenabob is right. Most of the questions will be answered with something saying "denies allegations in paragraph number x." The only questions that will have any other sort of answer will be full name, address, etc...

I'm not certain this suit will bring any new info to light, or even hold up, when nothing will be said. It may just be a waste of time and wishful thinking as Kyron has not been found, and there is still no evidence where he is. Perhaps they are using some cell phone records to try to get more info, I really don't know. However, with cell tower triangulations, those questions will be met with the previous answers.

I just wish Kyron would be found.

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Desiree's attorney was pretty clear that he expected to use this as a means to subpoena documents and records and other legal means of investigating the case. That doesn't depend on Terri Horman suddenly deciding to help the search for Kyron and SAY anything in the present. I don't think a single soul expects Terri to suddenly decide to talk about the events of that day honestly.

Also, the lawsuit put Kyron's name and face back in the media, however briefly, and even a civil court case would do the same... and I think Desiree felt like she was able to do some small thing in a positive direction after all this time, so even if nothing else ever came of this, it already hasn't been a waste of time.

I would do anything to try and find my child. anything.

Hopefully this civil case will bear fruit and give other parents of missing children another avenue to take in the future.

raying:

No word yet on Terri's response to the lawsuit that was filed by Desiree on June 1? :waitasec: