17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

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Nova said:
And I was saying you have that right. It isn't illegal.

This has become a game of telephone. My original point was that racial profiling may be illegal for certain representatives of the government under certain conditions, but it isn't illegal for private citizens such as GZ or you or me.

HiHater merely added that if I act illegally based on a racial profile, that profile might be considered evidence of bias under hate-crime statutes.

So, no, nobody said or implied that every critical thought about a member of a minority is animus, racial profiling or a hate crime. Okay? :)
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:tyou::tyou:
 
LolaMoon08 said:
It's possible, but I think the whole "He reached for his phone" was actually "He reached for his gun." I don't believe George had the time or even the thought of putting his phone away while expecting a call back from LE at any time. I believe the phone was most likely still in his hand. It would also be interesting to know where his phone was when police arrived... I'm thinking that it was probably somewhere on the ground as he couldn't call 911 himself.

MOO
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The phone. Something to consider. The last thing LE asked for was the address where GZ was parked but we know he was out of the car and on his way down the cut through path. Now GZ's claim is he went over to the next street to get an address on Retreat View Circle and was on his way back when TM jumped him from behind at the point where the pavement meets. Why is it when GZ reached the point where he could see an address did he not call the dispatcher back and tell them where he was. That is what he was asked to do, give them an address. Why didn't he call right then, he knew they were on their way so what stopped him from calling?????

I, too, don't think GZ was ever on his way back to his vehicle. He was determined to find TM because another one was not going to get away and that is why he never called the dispatcher back after finding the address. I also believe he may have cut through the houses further down because he could hear TM talking to his girlfriend on the phone and knew exactly where he was. jmo
 
LolaMoon08 said:
I've never been in a fight on the grass... but can you get grass burn much like you can get carpet burn? Could George's head injury been grass burns? Maybe a stick poking him in the head?

ETA: Yes, this is a serious question.
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It's possible but I would think difficult on slick, wet grass.
 
suzihawk said:
But, but... how would he have the presence of mind to holster weapon when he was barely conscious and the the last thing he remembers is moving his head from the concrete and, well, you know...??


"George was out of breath, he was barely conscious, his last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time he wouldn't be -- you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon fed by his brother, and there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed by --"

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...29/pmt.01.html
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I think the point is that it's not a first-hand account anyway. So taking it literally and analyzing it word-by-word doesn't really prove much.

As m00c0w has pointed out, the speaker is using word pictures to convey the idea that GZ was in dire straits by the time he pulled his weapon and fired. The statement isn't a medical chart, a police report, a psychiatric write-up or any other type of document that is written to be taken as literal fact. It isn't even a journalist's report.
 
csziggy said:
BBM
What cases have there been previous to the SYG laws of people who were only protecting themselves being held in jail and tried for doing just that? I don't know of a significant number of that situation. Yes, there may have been cases that were not clear cut but that is what the justice system is for.

This law goes too far IMO, JMO, etc.
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Just FYI, here is the case that they say started it all.

<snip only>
Here was a 77-year-old retiree asleep with his wife in an RV outside their hurricane-damaged home in 2004. And here came a menacing intruder, prowling through the dark, bursting into the trailer. The homeowner shot the intruder, then had to wait months — painful, anxiety-filled months in legal jeopardy — before prosecutors decided the two shots he fired were justified, that what he did was protect himself and his wife.

That's too long, said the senator who introduced the bill.

"You're entitled to protect your castle," Durell Peaden said at the time. "Why should you have to hire a lawyer to say, 'This guy is innocent'?"

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...-born-of-2004-case-but-story-has-been/1225164
 
Nova said:
I think the point is that it's not a first-hand account anyway. So taking it literally and analyzing it word-by-word doesn't really prove much.

As m00c0w has pointed out, the speaker is using word pictures to convey the idea that GZ was in dire straits by the time he pulled his weapon and fired. The statement isn't a medical chart, a police report, a psychiatric write-up or any other type of document that is written to be taken as literal fact. It isn't even a journalist's report.
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It is just the story George told them.
 
momshrink said:
My point is that he was never enrolled in the CJ program. I am sure he hoped to be, but as you stated he needed the associates degree first. After that, he would need to apply and be accepted.
IMO he mislead people by telling them he was already in the CJ program.
JMO
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Maybe, but unless it was in a sworn affidavit, conversations about one's major tend to be pretty casual:

"I'm in college."
"Oh. What are you studying?"
"Criminal justice."

Few people would respond, "Well, I hope someday to be admitted to a formal program leading to a B.S. in Criminal Justice, but right now I am still taking required general-studies courses for my A.A. degree. Once I get that, I will apply to the actual CJ program."

Last year, my niece changed majors from Marine Biology to Environmental Science. Entirely in her own mind. Because she had decided to transfer to a different university, she never bothered to formally change her major. But if you had asked her in a casual conversation...
 
cityslick said:
I don't think a 17 year old should be looked upon as innocent as say, a 10 year old or even a 5 year old because someone that is 17 years old has as much ability to do harm to someone as an adult. I'm getting the impression when one says 'GZ chased down a child', that statement is meant to imply that TM was this meek little thing and I don't think that was/is the case.
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There are different definitions for the word "child," depending on context.

Legal
Political
Physical
Biological
Etc.

News organizations often refer to 17-year-olds as "men" and "women" in their reporting.

Heck, I know of grandparents in their 60's whose own mamas still think of them as their "babies."

It's all relative (no pun intended).

TM could be considered a grown man... a young man... a teenager... an adolescent... and/or a "child," depending on what context you want to use. JMO
 
i.b.nora said:
I wonder how the lawns behind the townhomes gets cared for, or how it is maintained. In other words, are there sprinkler heads in the lawn?
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Got to be for the grass to had been as thick and green as it shows in the videos. FL has been in a drought since fall. My lawn is not half that nice and my system waters very week.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Another thing I guess could be asked is... if George was waiting for LE to call him back so he could tell them where he was, why wasn't the phone still in his hand?

eta: Why did he have to reach for a phone that should have been in his hand? How long before he hung up the phone until the altercation?
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Great question, imo!
 
Dr.Fessel said:
It is just the story George told them.
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That could be but I'm more interested in what George said to LE that night and not so much what he may have said to family later on.
 
Nova said:
Maybe, but unless it was in a sworn affidavit, conversations about one's major tend to be pretty casual:

"I'm in college."
"Oh. What are you studying?"
"Criminal justice."

Few people would respond, "Well, I hope someday to be admitted to a formal program leading to a B.S. in Criminal Justice, but right now I am still taking required general-studies courses for my A.A. degree. Once I get that, I will apply to the actual CJ program."

Last year, my niece changed majors from Marine Biology to Environmental Science. Entirely in her own mind. Because she had decided to transfer to a different university, she never bothered to formally change her major. But if you had asked her in a casual conversation...
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I understand what you are saying. It is like when it was reported George was crying for days after he shot Martin and George was crying for days in jail and George was getting his head beat in and Martin had his hand over his mouth.............it was all just casual talk, nothing to it.
 
Nova said:
Maybe, but unless it was in a sworn affidavit, conversations about one's major tend to be pretty casual:

"I'm in college."
"Oh. What are you studying?"
"Criminal justice."

Few people would respond, "Well, I hope someday to be admitted to a formal program leading to a B.S. in Criminal Justice, but right now I am still taking required general-studies courses for my A.A. degree. Once I get that, I will apply to the actual CJ program."

Last year, my niece changed majors from Marine Biology to Environmental Science. Entirely in her own mind. Because she had decided to transfer to a different university, she never bothered to formally change her major. But if you had asked her in a casual conversation...
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Seminole State also offers an associate's program in criminal justice... It doesn't seem that an associate's is necessary to take any of the classes or pursue that as a course of study.
 
RANCH said:
That could be but I'm more interested in what George said to LE that night and not so much what he may have said to family later on.
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I'm interested in why the story changed, if in fact it did.:moo:
 
Cher352 said:
Got to be for the grass to had been as thick and green as it shows in the videos. FL has been in a drought since fall. My lawn is not half that nice and my system waters very week.
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It was pouring rain.
 
Nova said:
I think the point is that it's not a first-hand account anyway. So taking it literally and analyzing it word-by-word doesn't really prove much.

As m00c0w has pointed out, the speaker is using word pictures to convey the idea that GZ was in dire straits by the time he pulled his weapon and fired. The statement isn't a medical chart, a police report, a psychiatric write-up or any other type of document that is written to be taken as literal fact. It isn't even a journalist's report.
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You're exactly right, Nova. And that's precisely the point. How can anyone believe anything this family puts forth on behalf of and in defense of George after putting out this over the top preposterous garbage? It's laughable, albeit pathetic.

IMHO
 
RANCH said:
That could be but I'm more interested in what George said to LE that night and not so much what he may have said to family later on.
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If he were telling the truth both the stories that he told LE and his family should be the same. Why would he need to tell LE one thing and his family something different?



~jmo~
 
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