MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

vlpate said:

Jeremy? Yes, he said the lights were on when he came home. Intruders do that, turn all the lights on.

Click to expand...

I don't know much about what makes intruders tick.

I was amazed, early in this thread, a fellow poster said her husband got up in the middle of the night with a child, and found a man asleep on their couch and all the lights on.

It does happen. And it happens with the sleeping residents not noticing.

Anyone nutty enough to sneak into an occupied house and steal a baby is nutty enough to turn lights on, IMHO.

People have been talking about reasons any teenager (familiar with Lisa or otherwise) might take a baby.

"Teen mom" romantic delusions of motherhood, thrill-kill, whatever.

How about a straight-up scam? This could apply to a young adult really anyone: present oneself with a persona meant to lure and decieve - as a pregnant teen or new young mother overwhelmed with her situtation. Then, collect persons interested in legal or under-the-table adoption on the internet - who will pay, either "expenses" or a flat reward for a healthy baby.

A person with access to pictures of Lisa (presented as "her" own) might be able to carry it off. And nothing would rule out some conspiracy with another family member, though I am thinking extended family, not nuclear family.

Seaturtle said:

snipped and bolded by me...

I completely agree. I am also a little hung up on this from a "kidnappers" perspective. If my intent is to steal a baby, am I carrying a bag over my shoulder and think "hey - I should throw these 3 cell phones in it - they might come in handy when I....what?". If I don't have a bag, do put 3 cell phones in my pockets? I know cell phones are not really big but 3 phones in my pocket(s)? why bother? Why run around with them in your pocket if you are carrying a baby somewhere? It just doesn't work for me AT ALL.

Click to expand...

Some have said that the phones were taken so that 911 could not be called. Heck, if you stole the baby and left all the lights on and nobody even rolled over in bed, why would you even think to take those phones? You would long be gone by the time they woke up.

Renea said:

Notice he didn't even take his hands out of this pockets to hug her!

Click to expand...

The change in his demeanor is obvious after the LE presser the other night. It reminds me of Amber Dubois mother. She had that seed of doubt about Amber's stepfather and it eventually broke them up. She makes no apologies about it either. Same thing with JC Duggards mother. Then you have people like Riley Fox's parents. Their faith in each other never wavered.

Gah! I'm so far behind...again. Back to catching up.

laytonian said:

....and those stolen cell phones are so traceable! It'd be like attaching fireworks to your butt, so everyone could track you.

Click to expand...

I know. I'm so curious what information - if any - they have from the phones.

JerricaBenton said:

I cant get that to open?

Click to expand...

if *********** comes up when you post a link that means that it cannnot be linked to at websleuths..

also a reminder to everyone that we do not post rumors...

thanks so much

snipped:

JeannaT said:

A similar looking baby has been spotted in California, with a couple. (

Click to expand...

Where in California? Does anyone know? It's a big state!

TIA.

JerricaBenton said:

I cant get that to open?

Click to expand...

It is not an authorized, linkable site here at WS. We try not to carry rumors over here from sites such as this.

If you see a link in a post that has ******** in it, it means it is not a link we can use here. Hope that helps

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib. http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-100-off...-baby-in-kansas-city-20111004,0,3181219.story


UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________


Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P
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**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.

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** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz
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Next news conference sometime this afternoon.
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2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.
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**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
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~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)
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http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

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***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

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**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.---suspects all cleared
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Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4

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Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"] [/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG

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Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3


Friday October 7, 2011
---------------------------------------------------------------
(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago

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**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.
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Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122




**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)
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http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.

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PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.—I can’t find anything else about this, so regard as rumor.

**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”

** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)
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**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)

The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)

Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....

http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating

Thank you to Hazel for finding this!
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***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.


http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn


**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago


**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-pol...-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story


#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.
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**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.

** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html

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Thanks to BeanE:

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago

LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago


Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy

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Saturday October 8, 2011

Re-cap—everyone cleared except for Debbie

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30255015_1_fbi-agents-kansas-city-police-landfill/2

**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

Pacific2011 said:

snipped:

Where in California? Does anyone know? It's a big state!

TIA.

Click to expand...

That information does not appear to be out there, though it's something you might want to google and research. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

DairyGirl said:

If the text was to her then it doesn't prove that she even received the text. It said that a call was made from the house, not to the house. Unless she answered the text.

Click to expand...

It really doesn't prove anything as it could be as innocent as she sent a text hours earlier saying "I want a Minsky's pizza" and her brother could have randomly noticed her text and replied "I'm ready when you are".....

Until a LE source clearly confirms it even exists or that it was a text or a call or who it was to or that it has been checked out or whatever.....it is clearly just a rumor till then.

jmo

and yes....I am aware that only locals will get the Minsky's thing......

Shelby1 said:

Well, here are a few...not sure if it's the ones you're thinking of.


http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/127...-Family-of-Missing-Baby-No-Longer-Cooperating

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn

http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZpbdtyLg

Click to expand...

Thanks, Shelby. I wonder if we can get these in a sticky? :innocent:

What speaks volumes is that the cops won't say, yes, we found the baby being carried one street over and it wasn't her.

They're like the Portugal police - can't follow that lead so it didn't exist, must focus on demonizing mom.

raeann said:

It really doesn't prove anything as it could be as innocent as she sent a text hours earlier saying "I want a Minsky's pizza" and her brother could have randomly noticed her text and replied "I'm ready when you are".....

Until a LE source clearly confirms it even exists or that it was a text or a call or who it was to or that it has been checked out or whatever.....it is clearly just a rumor till then.

jmo

and yes....I am aware that only locals will get the Minsky's thing......

Click to expand...

So what DOES "I want a Minsky's Pizza" mean, other than "I want a pizza from Minsky's?"

Is it local code for "got some dope?" or something?

norest4thewicked said:

That's true about it having to be completely dark for luminol testing. It could have been this. Luminol tests are also not admissible in court.

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If you google whether luminol testing results are admissible in court, you will find that the results ARE sometimes admissible in court. You will aslo find a couple of Supreme Court cases that ruled the admissibility as well. I tried to link all of that and couldn't.

*still trying to catch up here and never can!

MOO

Don't know if this has been posted already, but here's the link to last night's Nightline video.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline

raeann said:

It really doesn't prove anything as it could be as innocent as she sent a text hours earlier saying "I want a Minsky's pizza" and her brother could have randomly noticed her text and replied "I'm ready when you are".....

Until a LE source clearly confirms it even exists or that it was a text or a call or who it was to or that it has been checked out or whatever.....it is clearly just a rumor till then.

jmo

and yes....I am aware that only locals will get the Minsky's thing......

Click to expand...

Another thing to consider. I have a, well, not a great cell phone provider. People have been known to receive my texts hours after I send them, if at all.

shefner said:

I agree with scrapping the poly in this case. My son failed one too...given by LE in a case where he was accused of theft. He was grilled mercilessly and a few days later, the accuser located the item he said my son had stolen....it was there in his home all the time, just misplaced. So yes, innocent people do fail them.

The glaring things I cannot get beyond are the unusual ones.
1. The door unlocked on hubby's first night at work.
2. The lights on....what kidnapper does this? None.
3. The kidnapper had to spend time in the house....no one woke up.
4. All the cell phones kept in the same location in the main room without one being
taken into the bedroom with mom? Who cares about reprogramming. Cell phones
are extremely portable. I don't know anyone who wouldn't carry a phone into
their bedroom at night if they were alone with 3 children and hubby was at his
first night on his new job....unless they had a house phone in the bedroom.
5. No scent of baby outside that could be followed. Don't know what to make of
this. Doesn't sound right to me.
6. Dad's version of checking on the kids. Logic would say you would stop at each
child's room as you go down the hallway, which would mean checking on Lisa first.
Also, if he did check on the boys first, would he not freak when one of the sons
was not in his bed? He was sleeping with mom, supposedly...so his bed would
have also been empty.

Click to expand...

If you are going by that published floor plan....the verified neighbor who has seen the house says it is incorrect.
As a parent....I would think the culprit would be an older child who was capable of turning on lights and unlocking doors rather than a baby. I would check on my older child first as well. I don't see that as suspicious.

laytonian said:

So what DOES "I want a Minsky's Pizza" mean, other than "I want a pizza from Minsky's?"

Is it local code for "got some dope?" or something?

Click to expand...

LOL....no....just a pizza place that is sooooo good that one gets random and quite strong sudden cravings. I haven't had one for YEARS and I still prefer them to ANY other kind or brand of pizza!

jmo

natsound said:

Thanks, Shelby. I wonder if we can get these in a sticky? :innocent:

Click to expand...

I'll put them at the top of the timeline.