UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

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lemonmoussetart said:
many of us knew from the beginning....

Am writing this with heavy heart: when you said: choices based on how I might support those of my own daughter.

I am compelled to ask: are you C, or P in nature. Until then, will say nothing.
Though my heart bleeds for one side, and know we are all with one side, possibly you, but if you cannot make that clear, you will have enemies here. So, who are you? Speak now.....
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Oh, now I get it. I try to be level headed about this, but I thought made it it clear, I'm all about the plight of the daughter. I have one if a very eerily similar situation-- in terms of religion, economics, age, and so much more. I don't want to think this site is only about one side or another, but about finding the truth and the missing. I hope this helps you and those who are quick to judge. I am not. I didn't actually decide my leanings until I read SP's sick poetry. What an asshat. :furious:
 
Dr.Fessel said:
I think that was probably just what he was waiting for and trying to head off in his marriage and probably what the calls were about everyday to Josh. Get ready Josh she is going to make a unilateral move. Make it first son.
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Oh my gosh!!! I found the 'about' section so downright eerie, disturbing, telling, confusing, tangled up, crazy....that I had to post right away..Oh my gosh!! SP is a FRUITLOOP!!! He works for the prison, right?
 
Dont know if this was posted yet or not:

Police gathering evidence in Powell caseBy Pat Reavy

Deseret News

Published: Saturday, Jan. 16, 2010 10:27 p.m. MST

WEST VALLEY CITY — Test results from forensic evidence gathered in the case of missing West Valley mother Susan Powell are reportedly starting to come back to police investigators.

On the "Friends and Family of Susan Powell" Facebook page, Powell's father, Chuck Cox, wrote that the investigation was proceeding.

"Some of the forensics have been completed some have not, police cannot comment on specifics as it could impact the ongoing investigation," Cox wrote.

Susan's friend and Cox family spokeswoman Shelby Gifford said West Valley police have been providing Cox with regular updates.

"The investigation is complex. We're happy they report back to us and are making progress. We're confident they're dotting all the i's and crossing the t's," she said.

As for Cox's comment regarding the forensic test results, Gifford said it was only meant to be an update that the case was moving along.

"There's a whole series of tests to be run. There are a lot of components to it," she said. "It isn't a specific item."

Susan Powell has been missing since Dec. 7. Her husband, Josh Powell, remained a person of interest because of his lack of cooperation with police. In his Facebook update Friday, Cox said there was "still no cooperation or help from Josh."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705359021/Police-gathering-Powell-evidence.html
 
PercyVeer said:
If looking at Susan as a possible DV victim and a possible victim of the worst type of DV, we see well-established and documented patterns. IMO and experience, these patterns of behavior between men and women transcend religion, economic accomplishment or lack thereof, race, location, time, and more. These patterns often include, for some reason, the victim moving away from the family. It is astoundingly common to see the victim losing control of the vehicle, money, phone, computer, home, etc. There is a natural progression. Many victims are not allowed to go to church or work at some point. What always got me was, these controllers do not know each other, or have a secret network, but they do the same things, case after case. This is why I lean towards Dear Susan getting in a confrontation with her spouse and this being the cause of her disappearance. Her case is classic IMO. I pray she will be found soon.
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http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14042094?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com Salt Lake Tribune 20th December

A year before she disappeared, Susan Powell told a wide circle of friends she was preparing for the worst if she sought a divorce: that her husband might try to kidnap their sons and break her financially.

She said she had set up a separate bank account, arranged a place to stay if she decided to leave, and had informally written a will, according to friends who requested anonymity because they are not authorized by police to speak about the investigation. And Susan Powell made sure many knew of her preparations.

Susan Powell ultimately decided to stay and work on the relationship after fasting and praying.
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and later in the same article:

Friends said they told her the relationship wasn't healthy and confirm that they encouraged Susan Powell to leave her husband, whom they have described as controlling and emotionally abusive. A friend has said Susan Powell was at one point poised to return to Washington with the aid of her parents.

Joshua Powell, 33, was upset his wife was depositing money into an account he didn't have access to, said friends who added that they encouraged Susan to stand up to him. Family members have said the couple got marital counseling at Susan Powell's urging.
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http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14035282?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com Salt Lake Tribune 22nd December

Susan and Joshua Powell moved to Utah about five years ago, after stints working in assisted-living facilities in Yakima and Olympia, Wash., didn't provide them with enough income to start a family.

The couple picked Utah because Joshua's sister, Jennifer Graves, and his mother lived there, Chuck Cox said.
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Same article:

After Susan's disappearance, court records revealed that she and Joshua had about $200,000 in debt, including a large amount of credit card debt.

Susan gave up her goal of working as a hairstylist shortly after relocating to Utah to help Joshua with his real estate business. She later worked with Fidelity and got a job at Wells Fargo, working as an assistant stockbroker, where she helped people with transactions over the phone.

Susan tended to fall into the role as the family's main breadwinner as Joshua tried to make his career work, Chuck Cox said.
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BBM

As PercyVeer highlights, we have a picture of an abusive and controlling husband. Susan was so scared of him she started stashing money, but he knew about it and was upset about it. Many other people also knew about it, as she made it common knowledge.

At the same time, she's been the main breadwinner, he thinks he should have access to the money she earns, and between them (i.e. Josh alone) they've run up $200,000 in debt. Sadly she gave up a potential career as a hairdresser, something she would have enjoyed and would have been good at, to support his failed business dealings.

My first thought on seeing that $200,000 dollar figure was, how? What can you possibly buy to run up a debt of that colossal magnitude, by the age of 34?

My wife suggested Josh's various attempts at starting his own businesses, and that's probably a big chunk of it. I think having a shiny new van when you could have bought something second-hand, spending money on a new generator when you don't really need one, and stuff like that. He may also have even been spending deliberately to minimise the amount she could save in her private account.

Josh seems to have lived his life in a misplaced bubble of self-confidence, thinking he knows stuff, can handle stuff, and is good at stuff, when really he's a bumbling incompetent juvenile who has been mainly supported by his wife's income for the duration of his married life. He also seems to think the world owes him a nice lifestyle, when his earnings haven't matched up to that.
 
What a terrific synopsis, Bartelby, and thanks for the article you have cited. :) Your description in that last sentence is all too familiar. We certainly have a heck of a lot of men similarly trying to be the entrepreneur dude here in CA. Thank God most of them come to their senses and get a job when they have a family. Susan deserved better.
 
Bartleby said:
My first thought on seeing that $200,000 dollar figure was, how? What can you possibly buy to run up a debt of that colossal magnitude, by the age of 34?

My wife suggested Josh's various attempts at starting his own businesses, and that's probably a big chunk of it. I think having a shiny new van when you could have bought something second-hand, spending money on a new generator when you don't really need one, and stuff like that. He may also have even been spending deliberately to minimise the amount she could save in her private account.

Josh seems to have lived his life in a misplaced bubble of self-confidence, thinking he knows stuff, can handle stuff, and is good at stuff, when really he's a bumbling incompetent juvenile who has been mainly supported by his wife's income for the duration of his married life. He also seems to think the world owes him a nice lifestyle, when his earnings haven't matched up to that.
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Snipped for space and BBM. I agree with what you have said here.

I also wanted to point out that around $100,000 of his debt was when/because he took out a huge loan to cover his real estate advertising through phone books! When I heard he did that I thought, are you kidding me?? So yeah, a lot of the debt was because he was trying to start up his business.
 
Excellent post, Bartleby. Now I see how it all fits into the DV picture. You summed up the scenario so that I see the connection with moving away in a totally different light. I won't defend the practice of supporting daughters to follow their own dreams even if they include moving away, although I would point out that it is quite widespread and doesn't always portend disaster.
 
OKand3Js said:
Snipped for space and BBM. I agree with what you have said here.

I also wanted to point out that around $100,000 of his debt was when/because he took out a huge loan to cover his real estate advertising through phone books! When I heard he did that I thought, are you kidding me?? So yeah, a lot of the debt was because he was trying to start up his business.
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I vaguely remember reading about student loans somewhere as well, which added to that massive debt. Moving expenses aren't cheap either, especially for out of state. Buying the house in Uah, the cost of having the kids, gosh it all adds up so darn quick!!

Edit to add:
Its not uncommon for some people to relocate out of state for better employment hopes. Most I know, however, have a job lined up first, and then relocate after a few months establishment at the new job. Also remember reading that they moved to Utah due to Josh not having the best luck in keeping a job. He may have been running out of places to apply for work, having already burned bridges at many employers and also having established an unattractive reputation on the employment front.
 
lemonmoussetart said:
nope blondy, to SPs thinking that's the norm for his family anywho

firstly we have

unilateral and secretive decision (by Mom)

then...

unilateral and secretive decision (by Dad)

go figure! have NO problem rehashing this.....
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Can anyone explain what the heck he is saying by this???
I can't follow SP garbage talk or music................
KC used goofy big words and lanugage to feel important, IIRC
I have tried to make sence of the lyrics to his music (?)
How did he talk with his children?
Messd up........and he is remarried???
 
passionflower said:
Can anyone explain what the heck he is saying by this???
I can't follow SP garbage talk or music................
KC used goofy big words and lanugage to feel important, IIRC
I have tried to make sence of the lyrics to his music (?)
How did he talk with his children?
Messd up........and he is remarried???
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So when SP was a child, his father up and left, and one of SP's grandmas "kidnapped he and his siblings, telling them they would never see their mother again as she drove them away, and at one point poured cayenne pepper on SP's tongue for telling a playmate he'd been kidnapped????
 
With forensic tests coming back............may spell jail for Josh!!!
 
nomad said:
So when SP was a child, his father up and left, and one of SP's grandmas "kidnapped he and his siblings, telling them they would never see their mother again as she drove them away, and at one point poured cayenne pepper on SP's tongue for telling a playmate he'd been kidnapped????
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yeah, but SP wording for this action from HIS Father and grandparents are so BIZARRE!
They did a number on him and he did a number on Josh........IMO
generations of abusive (mentally) people!!!
 
OKand3Js said:
Snipped for space and BBM. I agree with what you have said here.

I also wanted to point out that around $100,000 of his debt was when/because he took out a huge loan to cover his real estate advertising through phone books! When I heard he did that I thought, are you kidding me?? So yeah, a lot of the debt was because he was trying to start up his business.
Click to expand...

BBM

Phone Books? I haven't LOOKED at a printed phone book in over 15 years! That was money down the drain.

$100,000 at say 6% interest, and maybe 2% buyer's or seller's commission on each house, let's say an average house is $250,000 in WVC.

250,000 x 0.02 = $5,000 possible commission on a sale, so he needs to sell 20 houses in a year to cover the initial advertising outlay, not turning any profit, and not covering any other costs for promoting individual houses, showing buyer round etc., and not covering the interest payments.

Two things I think you need to be a successful salesman, knowledge (and that can take years to build), and personality. I don't think Josh had either, and I bet he didn't discuss this spend with Susan before he did it. I bet when he told her that went down like a cup of cold sick.
 
AlexisFresca said:
I vaguely remember reading about student loans somewhere as well, which added to that massive debt. Moving expenses aren't cheap either, especially for out of state. Buying the house in Uah, the cost of having the kids, gosh it all adds up so darn quick!!

Edit to add:
Its not uncommon for some people to relocate out of state for better employment hopes. Most I know, however, have a job lined up first, and then relocate after a few months establishment at the new job. Also remember reading that they moved to Utah due to Josh not having the best luck in keeping a job. He may have been running out of places to apply for work, having already burned bridges at many employers and also having established an unattractive reputation on the employment front.
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BBM

Good points AF, and where is Joshy now? Back in Puyallup with all those burned bridges, and we know from John Hellewell's comment that nobody in WVC will employ him now.
 
Bartleby said:
Apologies again, it was entirely my misunderstanding. I am new to Websleuthing, and closer to this case than some because Kiirsi has been my friend for many years and I am upset for her and the loss of her best friend.
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Absolutely no need to apologize Bartleby! By you being closer to the case than most I can totally understand how our humor may sound to you. I hope you know that we mean no disrespect to Susan or her family/friends at at all. As I said earlier, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying 'round this place! My heart goes out to you my friend! Welcome to Websleuths, I enjoy your posts and hope that you will stick around!
 
Bartleby said:
BBM

Good points AF, and where is Joshy now? Back in Puyallup with all those burned bridges, and we know from John Hellewell's comment that nobody in WVC will employ him now.
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Oh, I have a feeling 'daddy dearest' is going to try to pull some strings and see if he can get his poor vilified son (yes, I'm being sarcastic here) a job where he works, in some form or another. No matter how much daddy supports Josh, I can't imagine he will just take on the support of 3 people without asking Josh to contribute to that. If he does, it will wear thin.
 
Bartleby said:
BBM

Phone Books? I haven't LOOKED at a printed phone book in over 15 years! That was money down the drain.

$100,000 at say 6% interest, and maybe 2% buyer's or seller's commission on each house, let's say an average house is $250,000 in WVC.

250,000 x 0.02 = $5,000 possible commission on a sale, so he needs to sell 20 houses in a year to cover the initial advertising outlay, not turning any profit, and not covering any other costs for promoting individual houses, showing buyer round etc., and not covering the interest payments.

Two things I think you need to be a successful salesman, knowledge (and that can take years to build), and personality. I don't think Josh had either, and I bet he didn't discuss this spend with Susan before he did it. I bet when he told her that went down like a cup of cold sick.
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I betcha daddy put these thoughts of business and how to be successful into the brains of his sons..........internet & politics & real estate??? RISKY......
not music???
 
Forensic tests are trickling in.........
Josh has to be afraid by now........
how close is he to Canada???
 
passionflower said:
I betcha daddy put these thoughts of business and how to be successful into the brains of his sons..........internet & politics & real estate??? RISKY......
not music???
Click to expand...

Looks like they failed that 'SP Guide to Success' course.

Not that I defend SP, but his music appears to be a 'side buisness' or a hobby he can collect a few dollars on, but certainly nothing to fully support himself with.
 
passionflower said:
Forensic tests are trickling in.........
Josh has to be afraid by now........
how close is he to Canada???
Click to expand...

If you go to google maps and enter Puyallop, Washington, click on map view, and zoom out till you see the Canadian border, it will give you a guestimate. Maybe a day's drive? Just a guess on my part, not knowing how hilly the roads are, what the road conditions would be for him, or the interstate taken to get into Canada. Also depends on how often he would stop for food, gas and take care of his sons (restroom and run around stops). Puyallop is halfway down the state, on the western end of the state.
 
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