TH's emails shed light on Horman split

gardeness said:

This is another reason why the alleged MFH and Terri being involved in Kyron's disappearance don't add up for me--those are "last resort" actions.

Click to expand...

Divorce is a "last resort" action for a failing marriage.

Offering someone money to kill one's spouse; killing one's stepchild.... those are actions that most sane people would never even fathom to do.

Terri is paying for her bad decisions just like Kaine is. They started --ahem--"dating" while Desiree was pregnant with Kyron, and Terri moved in with Kaine before he was even divorced from Desiree. This is one of the reasons that I don't like Kaine, although my heart aches for him for what he is going through now. Losing a child shouldn't be the price one pays for bad relationship decisions.

Their relationship started on shaky ground, and it's ending tragically. HOWEVER, only one person in that marriage bears the blame for what has happened to Kyron, and it's not Kaine.

While he has a history of making bad decisions in relationships, THANK GOD that he made a good decision by removing the baby from the house before she could become dispensable the way that J and Kyron did.

TxLady2 said:

I don't see these emails as proof of anything. IF she is charged with murder, the court is going to need some strong physical evidence. These emails are NOT going to cut it. Sorry, but that's the bottom line. They have to PROVE that she did away with Kyron, and that's going to take a lot more than a few "whining, complaining" emails.

Click to expand...

Then how did a jury convict Scott Peterson? There was literally only a hair of evidence, and plenty of innocent reasons for the hair to have been in his stuff anyway, as she was his wife. The jurors said that his location on the day of her disappearance and his behavior after her disappearance (circumstantial!) put the nails in the coffin of his conviction.

I can't see how - if LE does indeed have proof that Terri was somewhere she said she was not - this amount and type of evidence is that much different..?

I have every reason to believe KH is overbearing and much more. I have felt this about him since the very beginning. I have seen on TV, sorry I have no link to provide but am sure many of you saw it too, where Kryon's mother, Desiree, has tried over and over to spend time with Kryon and KH made it very difficult for her. Time has passed now and alot is coming out about the various relationships of the key people.

I'm not sure where this post belongs, but I'm concerned about Kaine's observations of Terri's "cycling" moods. Ok, first thought=bipolar, obviously. Could it be anything else? I'm trying to think of something, anything. Could he be trying to fit her behavior into a convenient, well-known mental dx? If there is certified mental illness there, coupled with alcohol abuse (as it often is), is it possible she could get off on an insanity plea? Or is that negated by her apparent premeditation? I'd hate to see her get off on a lesser charge because of something Kaine said, if it isn't true that she has a disorder that caused this tragedy.

ami said:

Then how did a jury convict Scott Peterson? There was literally only a hair of evidence, and plenty of innocent reasons for the hair to have been in his stuff anyway, as she was his wife. The jurors said that his location on the day of her disappearance and his behavior after her disappearance (circumstantial!) put the nails in the coffin of his conviction.

I can't see how - if LE does indeed have proof that Terri was somewhere she said she was not - this amount and type of evidence is that much different..?

Click to expand...

Yes! Even if they find Kyron, it may still come down to circumstantial evidence, of which I personally feel there is plenty in this case.

Statements, emails, MFH, cell phones, Facebook, location-location-location, opportunity, motive, mental health, planning, awareness of guilt (not finishing lie detector #2) - I could go on and on with this list.

Kaine and Desiree will have plenty to say to persuade a Jury as well.

PDXMom said:

I'm not sure where this post belongs, but I'm concerned about Kaine's observations of Terri's "cycling" moods. Ok, first thought=bipolar, obviously. Could it be anything else? I'm trying to think of something, anything. Could he be trying to fit her behavior into a convenient, well-known mental dx? If there is certified mental illness there, coupled with alcohol abuse (as it often is), is it possible she could get off on an insanity plea? Or is that negated by her apparent premeditation? I'd hate to see her get off on a lesser charge because of something Kaine said, if it isn't true that she has a disorder that caused this tragedy.

Click to expand...

The bolded question--I think so. Didn't he say that he'd been looking at various diagnoses trying to understand what was wrong with her?

I don't think that she'll get off on an insanity plea. I think the facts will be presented at trial that she planned this for months.

Kaybug said:

I have every reason to believe KH is overbearing and much more. I have felt this about him since the very beginning. I have seen on TV, sorry I have no link to provide but am sure many of you saw it too, where Kryon's mother, Desiree, has tried over and over to spend time with Kryon and KH made it very difficult for her. Time has passed now and alot is coming out about the various relationships of the key people.

Click to expand...

I know thats unheard in this world, overbearing men! And it would hold a lot more water if he had an arrest record indicating abuse towards Terri, the only indication and this is the truth, that Kaine is overbearing comes from Terri, so do we believe everything Terri says? Do we believe her when she writes emails that say she hated Kyron? Does a overbearing husband deserve to have a missing, probably dead child, I mean really, is she going to argue she wanted a candy apple Bentley but that overbearing Kaine her got a Mustang instead?

Kaine has to live with the shame and guilt over bringing this woman into his world, he pretty much paid the ultimate price and he is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life, but he does not DESERVE this.

scandi said:

I agree with what you say having had 2 alcoholic husbands. I think she might be guilty like you do. But we don't know what life was really like in that home. I'm not defending her, just don't know if we have heard the whole story.

I guess what is really getting to me is all the info we have gotten from both of Kyron's parents that I think should never have been put out to the public before she is arrested. Not poor taste - poor judgement I think. IMO


PS: It also gets me a wondering what Houze is making of all this. Cause if she is guilty I don't want this 5 star lawyer getting her off !!!

Click to expand...

I honestly don't know whether having all this info out there will hurt the case. I guess it could depend on how much else is out there. Kaine said this is just the tip of the iceberg, iirc. Maybe that's what he's alluding to. I hope so.

And I couldn't agree more with the bolded part. That's my biggest fear. I've read at least one decision, though, where this particular judge hasn't let Houze's *skills* overcome the truth in a murder case.

Everyone please read TOS and Etiquette again. You may discuss the actions of Kaine Horman as we know them from MSM.

WS is a victim friendly site. Accusing him of abuse is :nono: without a link. I'm not going to say this again.

We are not saying Kaine is perfect but he is not the "focus" of the investigation in Kyron's disappearance.

Discuss what we know not what we might think. That starts rumors. Overbearing is the the word Terri used. That is as far as it goes. No where has she accused him of abuse.

Just read the whole thread and picked a few posts out to reply to. These are all RSBM/BBM.

stmarysmead said:

It's not emails between sisters and friends complaining about husbands that is at issue. It's thinking of the hateful emails about Kyron that are heartbreaking. He was so helpless. Seven years old!

Click to expand...

EXACTLY. The main point here is that this woman who is the de facto suspect in this child's disappearance sent emails describing not only HATE for that child, but also ABOUT HURTING HIM. Yes, HURTING HIM. The rest about Kaine asking her to pay (it's called contributing to your household, Terri), or being onto her about being fat (I personally believe that was the other way around, just like Kaine said-he said she was the one that brought it up all the time), or having to do the house/yard work (let me get my tiny violin out for ya real quick, Terri, you are a SAHM...jeez), etc. etc., is just details at this point. The fact that there is an email coming from Terri Moulton Horman that details how she HATES Kyron and talks about HURTING HIM is the real issue here, IMO.

Billylee said:

It was Terri's attorney, Bunch who said J was living with his mother.

Click to expand...

passionflower said:

oh dear, please NO!!!

Click to expand...

Yep, at the October 7th court hearing, "Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother.

Billylee said:

Too true, or better yet, meet in person, because you never can tell who else might be listening in on the phone line.

Click to expand...

Emma Peel said:

Let us learn a lesson here.

If you don't want to see it again in court, don't put it in an e-mail. This is a lesson I learned at the dawn of e-mails.

Click to expand...

Or...you could just not write emails detailing the hate that you have for your stepson that you've raised from infancy and the fact that you want to hurt him....maybe that's just me? :waitasec:

Aedrys said:

Or better yet talk over batphones and make sure to throw them away later. Oh, and make sure you get the batphones from separate stores.

Also, you could take your confidant outside of the house and talk to them there. That way you'll avoid those pesky police bugs inside your home.

Honestly, there's no way to keep anything from the police for sure. The best thing to do is to live an honest life and don't do things like kidnap or murder people.

Click to expand...

:clap: LOL, jinx Aedrys

gardeness said:

I find that at this point, I am more inclined to believe Terri's reports of Kaine's actions in this email than Kaine's reports of Terri's actions in the documents he filed. She was writing and venting, with no agenda...can't say the same for him...JMO

Click to expand...

This is strictly IMO and is just a general statement about the BBM part of your post-it is sickening to see stuff about Kaine's "agenda". Seriously?! And what might that "agenda" be? Doing anything he can to get his little boy back?!

TxLady2 said:

I don't see these emails as proof of anything. IF she is charged with murder, the court is going to need some strong physical evidence. These emails are NOT going to cut it. Sorry, but that's the bottom line. They have to PROVE that she did away with Kyron, and that's going to take a lot more than a few "whining, complaining" emails.

Click to expand...

Have you seen the emails? My understanding is that for some reason the entire emails haven't been released (why, I'm not sure...if a news source has them and is reporting on them, then you'd think they'd post a link to the emails themselves. Hopefully they will soon, cause I'd really like to read them word for word), but from the reports, they contain parts about her hatred for Kyron and how she wanted to hurt him. That, my friend, is quite compelling evidence. Words straight from TH's own mouth (fingers). Proof of murder? not on their own. But if in fact these emails contain the reported details of hatred and ill will, I think that they'll actually make quite an impression on a jury and will be another piece of compelling evidence, another piece of the puzzle that is this case. What would you personally think if you read Terri's own words of hatred towards Kyron? I mean, really. Hatred?! How can a mother hate a child they raised like that? I just don't get it, and I don't have sympathy for her feeling "trapped". I bet Kyron felt really trapped too, being smack in the middle of this situation at such a young age. And IMO, Terri probably made it known to Kyron that she felt this way, too. So sad, my heart breaks for this little boy. He did not deserve any of this

Chablis said:

I know thats unheard in this world, overbearing men! And it would hold a lot more water if he had an arrest record indicating abuse towards Terri, the only indication and this is the truth, that Kaine is overbearing comes from Terri, so do we believe everything Terry says?

Click to expand...

I disagree. One does not get an arrest record for being overbearing, demanding or intimidating.

From OregonLive.com 11-15-2010

Young, who became visibly emotional on camera, explained that a year prior to Kyron's disappearance, she tried to get custody of him.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said. "Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset and Terri, personally wanted me to take Kyron."

snipped

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html

gwenabob said:

This is the part I am talking about. It does not specifically say they are endorsements, but I think she is implying it.

"Terri Horman’s Summary

I am seeking employment with elementary level grades, but while searching, I currently volunteer my reading specialist skills at Skyline Elementary in the Portland Public School System.

A certified teacher since 2000, I have taught "typicals" through college level, ADD, ADHD, ODD, OSC, YSC, Prader Willy, Down Syndrome and Medically Fragile.

I recently took some World Literature classes through Portland State University and renewed my certification.

Terri Horman’s Specialties:

Reading Specialist
Special Education OSC & YSC" http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie..._*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2

You can't teach special ed unless you are a special ed endorsed teacher around here. Plus, she mentions taking some World Literature classes at PSU, and renewing her certificate. Why doesn't she mention her masters degree? Probably because she never really finished it. IMO>


ETA: I think I missed what you were asking. By endorsement, I mean certification. Teachers have to be endorsed on certain subjects, meaning they took additional education and testing to prove they are qualified in order to be specialists. Is that what you were asking about?

Click to expand...

Yes, that last part is what I was asking. I've never heard it referred to as an endorsement, just a certification. Thank you! And yes, I'd be surprised if she actually has those endorsements, too.

These emails that are coming out, that we see, and the ones talked about by Desiree, are more pieces of the puzzle.
LE doesn't care if Kaine was overbearing or controlling, I don't think they are looking at him as a POI.
LE doesn't care if Desiree didn't try hard enough to get custody of Kyron, I don't think they are looking at her as a POI.
LE are building a case into the disappearance and possible murder of a child. They are going to look at , before, during and after, with their unnamed POI.
We discuss everything that comes out, individually. Each one that stands by its self might not look like much, but, when put together, as a whole, pieces of the puzzle, they start to paint a picture.
So far we are just getting the frame of the puzzel. I don't think LE is going to give us the center, until there is an arrest and at trial, which I believe there will be.

joshiesmom said:

This is from Kaine's court document:

"6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended."

Seems to me he was well aware that she was drinking heavily. So again, I ask how he can supposedly just now be learning about Terri's supposed alcoholism. I totally understand his not wanting to tell Desiree about Terri's behavior, but I also completely support Desiree being pissed off about Kaine not telling her AND his refusal to let her have custody of Kyron. I want to know why he was opposed to his ex-wife taking Kyron when he was aware that his current wife had a drinking problem & wasn't taking good care of baby K (according to him).

Click to expand...

I have an acquaintance whose husband went to work every day..high level management job, big company. He drank every night and on weekends.

She insisted he was not an alcoholic because he did not drink during the day.

But apparently his work was affected. At last, he was informed by his Boss that he needed to enter a company program for alcoholics. She was furious. She felt they were over-reacting. She was embarrassed.

Our friend has been "recovered" many years now..but his wife was in serious denial for a long, long time.And even when the truth was forced upon her, she fought it more than he did.

I think Kaine does not like to be wrong. I think Kaine is very "private." He chose Terri over Desiree. He loved Terri. Therefore he could "see" things...but he couldn't admit how serious it was. To him, she probably functioned well during the day...maybe like our friend...did not drink then. Therefore she only had a nightime problem and to Kaine that was not "alcoholism" and all that entails.

Once Kyron disappeared and the Murder for Hire plot was revealed...people probably felt they could tell him things they felt they COULD NOT have told him before. He has said as much. He is way past the comfort of denial now.

Seriously, now that I've read that article like 25 times, I really don't know why the headline isn't "Terri Sent Emails Detailing 'Extreme Hatred' for Kyron" or something like that. All the carp about KH/TH's relationship is important, yes, but it's not as important as Terri talking about:

“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”

Click to expand...

That's honestly shocking and very disturbing to say the least. And it shows that Terri is capable of not only thinking those thoughts, but also comfortable expressing them to another person...what's the next step? is she comfortable enough to act upon that hatred or actually hurt him?? This, taken with all the other little pieces of the puzzle, is a real bombshell, IMO. I just want to read the entire emails for myself. They aren't available yet, are they?

miabellamoure said:

With Kaines career and income...I really don't see him saying you need to give me J****'s Child Support money. I just don't.

Especially if as it has been alluded to in other posts that Kaine & Terri might have had seperate banking accounts...and then Terri would not deposit those CS checks into her own account but, give them to Kaine...I doubt it.

It's obvious he spoiled her plenty...car, trips, etc.

Click to expand...

My husband has a very good income, but I give him a certain amount every week (but sometimes miss) to help with our family. We live in a nice house, drive nice cars, and live a comfortable upper middle class existence. It still feels like we struggle though, and he is a doctor (twice over!)

So yes, I can see Kaine asking Terri to contribute. Especially if he gave her access to credit cards so she could buy groceries, clothes for everyone, household items, etc. That's how we do it here.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

"Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron."

I tried to find a Terri motive thread, but most of them had been closed. I'm not sure where to put this, but it is in the emails article linked above.

I wonder what lead Desiree to this conclusion? Many of us have speculated that it was Kaine with whom Terri was upset and was the prime motivating factor.

So, the in the emails Desiree read, she concluded that:
1. "Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,”
2. "Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron."
3. “I no longer had that little part of me that hoped she hadn’t done anything to Kyron,” Desiree said after she read the e-mails. “I realized that she is capable of hurting him. That was the hardest part about it.”

Kaybug said:

I disagree. One does not get an arrest record for being overbearing, demanding or intimidating.

From OregonLive.com 11-15-2010

Young, who became visibly emotional on camera, explained that a year prior to Kyron's disappearance, she tried to get custody of him.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said. "Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset and Terri, personally wanted me to take Kyron."

snipped

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html

Click to expand...

Well, in all fairness and reality, Desiree could have just said screw you Kaine, and went and got a lawyer and fought him, she could have done that as well, Kaine is not Joe law and the maker of them either. So, Kaine wanted his son, is this really such a shock? Maybe if he didn't love his son so much Terri wouldnt have done something to him IF she did something with him, thats pretty sad. We already know there are emails where she says she dislikes Kyron, that is heartbreaking, looking at pictures of that little boy, knowing someone held such hate for him.....

sarah7855 said:

Seriously, now that I've read that article like 25 times, I really don't know why the headline isn't "Terri Sent Emails Detailing 'Extreme Hatred' for Kyron" or something like that.

Click to expand...

I read it once and caught the point that the only e-mail the reporter had access to was one that included complaints about Terri's relationship with Kaine. The "extreme hatred" was just Desiree's characterization of what she claims to have been shown by the police. It may not be considered irresponsible here to state such things as established fact but it would have been irresponsible for a reporter to do so without having the ability to verify the existence and contents of those e-mails.