Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lavanda Dolce said:
I agree 100% with that as a potential "diagnosis", however, when you say would it not be beneficial...I ask, "to what"? A defense? The answer is no. Many people walk this earth with that as a diagnosis of their own personality disorder, however, that doesn't "cause" one to commit murder. It very well may explain why no visible remorse, and why she is so indifferent...however, it is not a defense for murder. Again. It goes back to the "did the perp know right from wrong". There is no getting Casey out of this. Not in my opinion. She has shown far too much evidence of cognitive thinking during the 31 days that Caylee was "missing". I don't believe any diagnosis will release her from a guilty verdict...except one, which I will explain in the next post. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Bolding mine.

I don't believe anyone wants to get Casey out of this. I further believe most of us here believe she is guilty, although possibly not the only guilty party.

That said, I DO believe Casey was a victim of her upbringing. Sorry, but I really do. I can understand why she may have harbored anger/rage; its just a shame she took it out on Caylee.

I also believe she did know right from wrong, EXCEPT, maybe not in that exact instant when the deed was done, IF she did the deed, and there wasn't another whole scenerio which I believe is also possible. IF Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage, I believe its possible she went temporarily insane. No, I don't want her walking the street again, but I can honest to God understand what may have happened when and IF she killed her child.

My opinion only
 
Blackwatch said:
Bolding mine.

I don't believe anyone wants to get Casey out of this. I further believe most of us here believe she is guilty, although possibly not the only guilty party.

That said, I DO believe Casey was a victim of her upbringing. Sorry, but I really do. I can understand why she may have harbored anger/rage; its just a shame she took it out on Caylee.

I also believe she did know right from wrong, EXCEPT, maybe not in that exact instant when the deed was done, IF she did the deed, and there wasn't another whole scenerio which I believe is also possible. IF Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage, I believe its possible she went temporarily insane. No, I don't want her walking the street again, but I can honest to God understand what may have happened when and IF she killed her child.

My opinion only
Click to expand...

(above bolded by me respectfully!)

Blackwatch I so agree with you about Casey being a victim of her own upbringing! Throughout this case it became much more clear and utterly oblvious that CA and Casey are like two peas in a pod. In fact it seems like an entire family of narcissists, imo. However when I delve into Casey it did seem to go one or two steps further.

I shiver many times when I think of the enviroment in which our little peanut Caylee was living in. I am not saying she wasn't loved and cherished and mean no disrespect. Just a humble observation.

Sharpar I apologize if my post came off as rude to you as I did not mean it to at all and I apologize if I offended you!
 
My stepdaughter is being raised by a mother that shares a lot of characteristics with Cindy with the exception of not being able to hold a job for more than 2 years (due to actions she takes in the workplace, actions based on her personality). I pray every day that she is able to survive her upbringing with her mind and personality intact. She already exhibits narcissistic tendencies like her mother. I think Casey is a product of nature and nurture. Her inherited (genetic) characteristics, combined with the environment she grew up in created the person she is today. Someone else correctly called it "the perfect storm."
 
WS friends, I found the most interesting link today, which I think may be quite insightful in demonstrating bonafide psychosis: Dr. Juliann Mitchell, Ph.D.'s, Profile of a Sociopath, written about Casey Anthony. Forget the profile piece, though -- check out the comments, particularly the comments by a poster calling herself "Marcia Neil." Now, there are quite a few comments to wade through, so bear with it. It's very interesting, IMO. As a professional who works in the mental health field, "Marcia Neil"'s comments are extremely consistent with psychosis. Note, this is different than delusional, as delusions are a fixed belief (which, okay, sometimes are nonsensical -- like, sometimes a person genuinely believes the moon is made of green cheese, etc). It's very nebulous, making the distinction between delusions and psychosis sometimes, so I'll just leave it at in my experience persons suffering from psychosis, who overtly demonstrate their symptoms, often show more disorganized and nonsensical thought patterns and beliefs (although they may make sense to the individual in their own mind). Persons with fixed delusions often present very believable ideas. The main difference is that psychosis can respond to medication; delusions do not.

I thought Dr. Juliann Mitchell handled the poster's comments with extreme kindness, for what it's worth.

I'm sure this profile has been posted in the media threads at some point, but I actually found it by accident, when I was reading an article on former Cook County Illinois judge Thomas J. Maloney. Go figure!
 
yosande said:
I do not agree with this opinion. I do not believe her stealing was an attention getter.
I'm grateful that we both are allowed to state our opinions though.
oh, and my mom has always said that you always have choices.
There were plenty of choices other than murdering her daughter. She herself stated that fact to LE at Universal.
Click to expand...

Ohh, I agree with your mother 100% we choose our behaviors!
 
Alpha Leader said:
While channel surfing looking for coverage on the case I stumbled onto a show that helped me potentially understand something key about this case. The show as called 'Intervention' and it was about a family that has a young mother battling anorexia. She had two young kids and besides anorexia she had checked out of her mom duties and was pill popping to boot.

The family had enough and staged an intervention. Several scenes concerning this were played out on the show.

First, the dad of the mother (grand dad) had a pretty hard time getting away from notion of writing her off which was his stance before the interventionist got involved. The young mother was using a molestation in her youth from someone as an excuse to continue the disorder. I had an interest in anorexia in the past and I believe this condition is very very hard to successfully treat. To me the molestation thing was a ruse.

When the intervention occurred, grand dad read a letter out about how the kids had withdrawn from her and that they needed their mother. They had to tiptoe around her saying the loved her and wanted her to be the best mom ect. The goal was to convince her to accept treatment.

Her responses to this were telling and key. I watched very intently to her reactions to all this. In a few scenes that led up to this, you see the mother say, to the camera no less, that she did want to come down and fix the kids lunch because she was on the computer. Her expression and the way she delivered these comments where telling. During the intervention their were other reactions.

The bottom line is that what popped into my mind viewing these reactions was a closeted HATRED for her kids. She could not truly admit this feeling because that would drive the grand parents to disown her and her enabled lifestyle. I felt it though ... that was a solid feeling that came through to me.

At any rate, a key in this case is how being annoyed at being a mom gets amped up to a rage leading to murder. This show seemed to illustrate a path: a hidden, building anger from a building narcissism directed at weak victim. Even for this show, the problems of the mother where drowning out this aspect of it. I found the show informative and telling.
Click to expand...

Intervention is my favorite show!!

ETA- I am one who feels part of anorexia is in a way a form of SI and control over ones body.
 
Twoapennything said:
WS friends, I found the most interesting link today, which I think may be quite insightful in demonstrating bonafide psychosis: Dr. Juliann Mitchell, Ph.D.'s, Profile of a Sociopath, written about Casey Anthony. Forget the profile piece, though -- check out the comments, particularly the comments by a poster calling herself "Marcia Neil." Now, there are quite a few comments to wade through, so bear with it. It's very interesting, IMO. As a professional who works in the mental health field, "Marcia Neil"'s comments are extremely consistent with psychosis. Note, this is different than delusional, as delusions are a fixed belief (which, okay, sometimes are nonsensical -- like, sometimes a person genuinely believes the moon is made of green cheese, etc). It's very nebulous, making the distinction between delusions and psychosis sometimes, so I'll just leave it at in my experience persons suffering from psychosis, who overtly demonstrate their symptoms, often show more disorganized and nonsensical thought patterns and beliefs (although they may make sense to the individual in their own mind). Persons with fixed delusions often present very believable ideas. The main difference is that psychosis can respond to medication; delusions do not.

I thought Dr. Juliann Mitchell handled the poster's comments with extreme kindness, for what it's worth.

I'm sure this profile has been posted in the media threads at some point, but I actually found it by accident, when I was reading an article on former Cook County Illinois judge Thomas J. Maloney. Go figure!
Click to expand...


Thanks, A good read:clap:
 
Not sure if this has been posted but whilst looking something else up came across this !

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/smith/confess_8.html
It is interesting to note that according to a National Center for Missing and Exploited Children study of murdered children in the United States, completed in the mid-1990s, mothers who murdered their children disposed of their bodies in a distinctively womb-like manner. The study found that some victims were submerged in water and others were found carefully wrapped in plastic. Furthermore, the study also described how all the victims' bodies were found within ten miles of their family home.
Click to expand...


WELL !!! How interesting is THAT!

Caylee was wrapped in plastic and under water !!

Caylee was withing 10 miles from home

If these places know these things and they suspect the Mothers why don't they LOOK THERE FIRST ???
 
Lavanda Dolce said:
Casey was a troubled girl from the get go. No banging of head after Casey was born. Consider this: She quit high school, she didn't go to college, she had no aspirations other than partying and dating, she lied to Jesse Grund and told him he was the father of Caylee....and she had complete cognitive abilities to do all she did during the 30 days Caylee was "missing". I can understand people trying to find an answer or a reason as it is just too incomprehensible to understand, however, there are just plain selfish, jealous, evil people in this world. It goes clear back to the biblical days. Sad. Very sad.
Click to expand...

ITA!

Welcome to WS, btw :)
 
Anais said:
Last night I saw a rather interesting documentary on Malignant Narcissism with Antisocial Personality traits and IMO it is 100% fitting of Casey Anthony! I called my sister who is the head of a psych unit and assistant to the professor to discuss. She also thought this of CA.

Here is a look at some of the info:

An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty, and overestimates their abilities and has an excessive need for admiration and affirmation. This may be present to such a degree that it severely damages the person's ability to live a productive or happy life because the traits manifest as severe selfishness and disregard for the needs and feelings of others.

Many features of person's with MN are often ambitious and capable but are unable cope with setbacks, disagreements or criticism. These emotional limitations along with a complete lack of empathy make it difficult for such individuals to work well with others and to build a successful career.

Pathologically narcissim is the art of deception, and the narcissist presents a False-Self managing all their social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover their true nature. ( I think this is what happened to Jesse and Amy!)


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, need for excessive attention, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following
  1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
  2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
  4. requires excessive admiration
  5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
  6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
  7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
  8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
  9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
  10. contemptuous of human beings, and to be completely without conscience
IMO this is completely fitting of Casey and I am wondering if the defense will have her evaluated by a psychiatrist or psychologist of their own at some point in time. Would it not be beneficial? I found this fascinating and more in line with Casey's presentation than any type of DD!
Click to expand...

Great post! I agree that this is a far more likely diagnosis than a simple "Psychopath" as far as Casey is concered. I do not think there is one simple diagnosis for Casey though but that is just MO.
 
Twoapennything said:
WS friends, I found the most interesting link today, which I think may be quite insightful in demonstrating bonafide psychosis: Dr. Juliann Mitchell, Ph.D.'s, Profile of a Sociopath, written about Casey Anthony. Forget the profile piece, though -- check out the comments, particularly the comments by a poster calling herself "Marcia Neil." Now, there are quite a few comments to wade through, so bear with it. It's very interesting, IMO. As a professional who works in the mental health field, "Marcia Neil"'s comments are extremely consistent with psychosis. Note, this is different than delusional, as delusions are a fixed belief (which, okay, sometimes are nonsensical -- like, sometimes a person genuinely believes the moon is made of green cheese, etc). It's very nebulous, making the distinction between delusions and psychosis sometimes, so I'll just leave it at in my experience persons suffering from psychosis, who overtly demonstrate their symptoms, often show more disorganized and nonsensical thought patterns and beliefs (although they may make sense to the individual in their own mind). Persons with fixed delusions often present very believable ideas. The main difference is that psychosis can respond to medication; delusions do not.

I thought Dr. Juliann Mitchell handled the poster's comments with extreme kindness, for what it's worth.

I'm sure this profile has been posted in the media threads at some point, but I actually found it by accident, when I was reading an article on former Cook County Illinois judge Thomas J. Maloney. Go figure!
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the link, very interesting too! Yes, Casey fits the desription to a T!!!
Cindy even said so.:ashamed:
 
Twoapennything said:
WS friends, I found the most interesting link today, which I think may be quite insightful in demonstrating bonafide psychosis: Dr. Juliann Mitchell, Ph.D.'s, Profile of a Sociopath, written about Casey Anthony. Forget the profile piece, though -- check out the comments, particularly the comments by a poster calling herself "Marcia Neil." Now, there are quite a few comments to wade through, so bear with it. It's very interesting, IMO. As a professional who works in the mental health field, "Marcia Neil"'s comments are extremely consistent with psychosis. Note, this is different than delusional, as delusions are a fixed belief (which, okay, sometimes are nonsensical -- like, sometimes a person genuinely believes the moon is made of green cheese, etc). It's very nebulous, making the distinction between delusions and psychosis sometimes, so I'll just leave it at in my experience persons suffering from psychosis, who overtly demonstrate their symptoms, often show more disorganized and nonsensical thought patterns and beliefs (although they may make sense to the individual in their own mind). Persons with fixed delusions often present very believable ideas. The main difference is that psychosis can respond to medication; delusions do not.

I thought Dr. Juliann Mitchell handled the poster's comments with extreme kindness, for what it's worth.

I'm sure this profile has been posted in the media threads at some point, but I actually found it by accident, when I was reading an article on former Cook County Illinois judge Thomas J. Maloney. Go figure!
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this, I found it very interesting and would have never noticed the comments from "Marcia" and they were very telling. You could see the difference you mentioned very clearly IMO. :)
 
Lavanda Dolce said:
Back in the "early days" of Caylee missing, I wrote the family. It was because I read in the investigative report that in early January 08 she was taken to the hospital with a seizure. Nothing more was ever said about it. My question, rather comments...was for the family to have a full MRI done on Casey. There is a slight possibility...albeit, extreme, but possible if she has a brain tumor affecting her "right from wrong" part of her brain...which would be the ventromedial prefrontal cortex...that could explain her actions.

I had a patient years ago that came to the ER handcuffed to the railings of the hospital bed with two guards. This young man (34) was aprox 6"7" and literally about 300 lbs of pure muscle. A football physique. He was dying of a massive brain tumor. However, it should be known that prior to his prison sentence this man was a completely normal human being. NEVER in trouble, a working family man and father/husband. His wife expressed he started having some depressive episodes and seemed to get quite agitated for no reason and this was unlike him. It was not until he brutally raped a young woman and was arrested that they discovered the tumor, after trials and after incarceration. So, in essence, if we are looking at possible scenario's that could cause Casey to do what she did...that could be one of them.

Again, it was never stated as to why she had that seizure nor what tests may have been done in the hospital. It was a friend that took her. It could have been from drinking, drugs and or not eating, etc. And not anything as serious as a brain tumor. But it is a thought that should be ruled out. For the family's sakes.
Click to expand...

Great post! I like your way of thinking more and more every time you post :). I would think her defense would want to get this checked out, no?

Do you remember the case not too long ago about the woman who cut her infant daughters arms off? (I cannot remember her name for the life of me at the moment though) Anyway, it turned out that she had a brain tumor. I do not know enough about tumors etc to know how they would show themselves psychologically but it is my understanding that the mother in the case I mention above (I will go look for her name and try to find a link for ya if you are interested in reading about it, let me know?) had been showing signs of psychosis prior to harming her daughter.

In Casey I see a clear pattern to her behavior, beginning in her teen years (though I sure wish we knew more about her earlier years) and becoming progressivley worse after her daughter was born when she was no longer the center of her mothers attention. The older her daughter became the less Casey seemed to matter and she seemed quite aware of that, as her behaviors became more and more extreme and criminal (I realize she has no record but only because her family enabled her, otherwise she would indeed have quite a police record, that would show her crimes esculating in their seriousness).

So, anyway, What I am getting at is that with this clear pattern of behaviors going back several years, I just have a hard time thinking that a brain tumor could be the cause of her actions.
 
Blackwatch said:
Isn't arson/fire starting the THIRD of triad? One of my socios was a great little starter of fires.

ETA, There have been studies done in prisons that show the frontal lobe is significantly smaller in many prison inmates. Whether or not they are all sociopaths, I'm not certain. Also, a significant number of serial killers have experienced head trauma in their youth. This is also thought to be a possible contributory factor. Actually, there are several more.
Click to expand...

Yep! Arson is one-third of the MacDonald Hit Parade! My one beautiful, blonde sociopath is a fire-setter.

You're right, a lot of prison inmates are socios. I did hear about the frontal lobe studies and the head trauma. LOVE to see more of those studies, because I think a lot of it it neurological. Very interesting, very scary disorder.

I think the first scientist who finds and proves the Holy Grail on this can sit on his private island, writing books. :blowkiss::blowkiss:
 
Blackwatch said:
Now that I'm really thinking about it, I wonder if Casey experienced head trauma after Caylee was born, around the time Jessee said she changed. My ex-hubby banged his head and became a changed person in an instant and that's why we divorced. Neither of us realized what was happening at the time (he still denies it), but the trauma broke certain lines of communication in the brain (too lazy to get proper terminology right now) and it took a long time for them to heal. By then the stranger who walked into my house after the injury and I were too angry at one another to stay married. The sad part is neither of us knew, at the time, that such a thing could happen because of a blow to the head.
Click to expand...

It could have happened. When I worked with minor brain injuries, I sometimes saw personality changes grat enough to cause divorc and job loss.

I wonder whether any one remembers anything like that? I wouldn't get her off on insanity, but it would be good to know.

Maybe the criminal writer (a guy, not Ann Rule) will find some NEW stuff that we don't even know. Someone is right in the middle of doing a book, right now. Saw it n ID.
 
bisaillon said:
The truth is some of us use that psychotic word out of context...meaning evil and not the actual Illness..
Click to expand...

Frank psychotics are easy to spot, if you've been around them. OLG can confirm that-- she's BEEN one.

Evil is VERY hard to spot. Bundy, Bianchi, Peterson.... Some sociopaths-- the smart ones-- look and act better than normal people. I have one now that is a tearing, blonde beauty. Could model for one of Boticelli's angel paintings.

But, you're right.. if you haven't been around severe mental illness AND evil, it's easy to confuse the two.
 
passionflower said:
JG said kc and him broke up because kc was so jealous of Caylee. kc said JG
loved CAYLEE more than kc...........imagine!
Click to expand...

AND, KC ALSO thought CA loved Klee more.

There's your Axix II disorder, right there.. jealousy of you own child, due to inability to bond.

Remember NG saying she'd WANT a guy who loved her children better than he loved her. The kids need it.
 
Whisperer said:
Just found this thread....You guys are smart!

Today I have come to the conclusion that kc is a psychopath. After hearing Jesse describe her jealousy...that was it. She killed out of jealousy. She was not going to let Caylee interfere in the relationship with Tony. She kept that guy hidden from her mom...no interference.

I had discountied a sociopath, due to not hearing criteria that fits about her youth. I am separating the two because that is what I am familiar with.

After looking at her websites and seeing her writings, she is dark...macabre-like. Her interest lies in gore and death movies. I see nothing light coming from her. She just mimics what she knows from other people as far as her feelings. She smiles to look pretty for the camera. She really loves herself.

She is a malignant Narcisist, Borderline traits and histrionic. The only problem I am having and maybe someone here can help is she did not plan this murder. She may have thought about it, but she is very disorgainized. Psychopaths are better planners than this. Maybe she is just evolving...?

What CA reported kc had depression in her teens, my thoughts were she was going through a Goth Phase....lol.

I also laughed when CA was describing kc....that was worth admission charges. These two are exactly alike, except for the macabre, Cindy and kc share the same personality disorders and they are enmeshed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this analysis! :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
 
concentric said:
I have been lambasted on here for even mentioning the word: psychotic, and asked if I ever even spoke to someone who is psychotic???

Someone I know, who was able to function in society was prescribed anti-psychotic meds because he was abusive. Now, why the anti-psychotics?
Click to expand...

Depends on the thought process BEHIND the aggression, as well as the degree of aggression. If he was abusing because he was delusional, that would fit.

Also, sometimes sub-therapeutic doses of anti-psycotics work on non-psychotics, because they break up the ruminations-- the thoughts that play over and over in one's head, like a broken record.
 
OneLostGrl said:
Many medications (not only psych meds) are used off-label. They are approved for one thing and it is found to help with other things. They are not approved to treat those things but they are still given and they work. They have found that some Anti-psychotics help with suicidal ideation, anger, mania, even treatment resistent depression.

My mother, who I have shared has Borderline personality disorder is on an anti-psychotic and it's the best thing that ever happened to her.

Claiming you were lambasted is a mighty large exaggeration.
Click to expand...

Yep! The atypical antipsychotic Abilify is being promoted for repractory depression. All of my Axis IIs are also getting it. They get less of a does than the standard for psychotics. It breaks up the ruminations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 106 more.
Total: 3,669 (members: 107, guests: 3,562)

Online statistics

Members online
107
Guests online
3,562
Total visitors
3,669
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,528
Messages
17,953,915
Members
228,522
Latest member
Cabinsleuth
Back
Top