Dubbed "Vodka Mom" in scathing Nancy Grace segment, MN woman burns self to death

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otto said:
Exactly. This young woman, with 5 or 6 children, obviously had enough difficulties in life without having some really rich, loudmouth, opinionated, ill-informed, ill-mannered woman badmouthing her and inciting hatred all over the evening tv programs. In retrospect, she was an easy target; an easy victim for boosting the ratings.
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Little Adrian was the victim in this case.

And he seems to get lost in these conversations.

Moo
 
Seek&Find said:
Little Adrian was the victim in this case.

And he seems to get lost in these conversations.

Moo
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I'm not sure that's accurate. Most of the posts mention her child, maybe not by name, but we all know who we're talking about. But for the child, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
 
otto said:
That's the best I can come up with for NG giving the sober husband a pass when it comes to responsibility for his child's welfare. That makes no sense to me, but it may be how NG rationalizes bullying only the mother.
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NG is a mother, not a father. Mothers are the comparison group and therefore bear the brunt of her scorn and wrath. As a general strategy this strikes me as bizarre and generally unwarranted, but it seems to be a long-term pattern.

s
 
katydid23 said:
Nobody ever said she meant to murder her child. But she had TWO DUI's in one month. So she was an accident just waiting to happen. If she had killed someone while driving drunk,it would have been manslaughter,negligent murder, even without the intent to murder.

Drinking an entire liter of vodka while caring for a newborn is very much like 'drunk driving' imo. Just because she had no intent to harm her child, that does not take away the negligent, criminal component. She would not have been facing 10 yrs in jail if it was a total 'accident.'
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She was charged with manslaughter and was facing up to 10 years in jail.

The cruise ship captain was charged with manslaughter after his ship ran into trouble on the Italian coast and 30 people died. He wasn't charged with murder because he didn't intend to commit murder, but it was always possible that if he made a mistake, people would die. That's what happened here. The mother made a mistake and someone died.

Since the mother was not driving, and accidents while driving a ship result in manslaughter charges, why should the mother be charged with murder? NG is out of her mind suggesting that every death be viewed as a murder.
 
Seek&Find said:
Little Adrian was the victim in this case.

And he seems to get lost in these conversations.

Moo
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NG sure seems to have forgotten about him and his siblings ... with her dramatic antics with the vodka bottle. She did nothing to advance the cause of the victim in this case.
 
This is a double tragedy.

I have a friend (A) whose friend (B) immolated herself. It is an absolutely horrific way to die. B had actually driven herself to a garbage dump to do it. A now carries serious emotional pain every day because she didn't know B was suicidal, and feels incredible guilt and trauma knowing how lonely and agonising her friend's death was. B's other friends and family feel the same pain.

I'm sorry but I am full of compassion for this poor soul. The way she died is proof that she punished herself with shame and grief, far more than Nancy Grace or any of us could. It is an agonising, prolonged and horrific death and speaks volumes about self-hatred.

Yes she caused her baby to die because she was an alcoholic, but alcoholisim is a disease and should be treated as such. If this woman had've received some treatment before/during/after pregnancy the chances are both would still be alive.

Victimising this woman to death is not constructive, moral, Godly, or kind. We should be learning from our mistakes as a society, and taking steps to ensure that this sort of avoidable tragedy does not happen again. IMO it is a community failure and by demonising an ill woman we are ignoring our own roles in contributing to the tragedy by "turning a blind eye" when someone is in dire straits and needs help, as this lady so obviously was.
 
SapphireSteel said:
This is a double tragedy.

I have a friend (A) whose friend (B) immolated herself. It is an absolutely horrific way to die. B had actually driven herself to a garbage dump to do it. A now carries serious emotional pain every day because she didn't know B was suicidal, and feels incredible guilt and trauma knowing how lonely and agonising her friend's death was. B's other friends and family feel the same pain.

I'm sorry but I am full of compassion for this poor soul. The way she died is proof that she punished herself with shame and grief, far more than Nancy Grace or any of us could. It is an agonising, prolonged and horrific death and speaks volumes about self-hatred.

Yes she caused her baby to die because she was an alcoholic, but alcoholisim is a disease and should be treated as such. If this woman had've received some treatment before/during/after pregnancy the chances are both would still be alive.

Victimising this woman to death is not constructive, moral, Godly, or kind. We should be learning from our mistakes as a society, and taking steps to ensure that this sort of avoidable tragedy does not happen again. IMO it is a community failure and by demonising an ill woman we are ignoring our own roles in contributing to the tragedy by "turning a blind eye" when someone is in dire straits and needs help, as this lady so obviously was.
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What a great comment! That's exactly how I see this situation. This woman should have been shown compassion and given help after her illness resulted in the death of her child.

If there were beheadings in the US, NG seems like the person that would be front and centre screaming for the blade to fall.
 
:twocents: FWIW, my opinion is that this woman set herself on fire because of the overwhelming guilt she felt for her role in her baby's death. I do not think that anything Nancy Grace said made her decide to die the most painful way posssible. I think that she felt that she deserved to die the most painful way possible as punishment.

PS: I think that the father should be held responsible for not protecting his baby son. Heck, I still feel that Andrea Yates' husband should have been charged in the deaths of his children for knowingly putting them in harms way and for continuing to produce children all the while knowing that Andrea Yates was very sick and a danger to her children.

PS Jr.: I do not hold Nancy Grace responsible for Trenton Duckett's mother's suicide either. She knew that she was going to be charged for his disappearance and most likely murder and took the coward's way out, IMO.
 
oh_gal said:
....OR...his ACTION of just going on his way, and not taking the baby to it's crib killed the baby, as well.
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No it didn't.
It didn't prevent it, but it didn't cause it.

The drunk mothers body on top of the baby caused it.

Unless he forced the alcohol down her throat then placed her passed out body on top of the baby, his actions did not cause the death.

Could he have done more to prevent it? I don't know.

But the cause of death was not "father went to bed".
 
Kimberlyd125 said:
No it didn't.
It didn't prevent it, but it didn't cause it.

The drunk mothers body on top of the baby caused it.

Unless he forced the alcohol down her throat then placed her passed out body on top of the baby, his actions did not cause the death.

Could he have done more to prevent it? I don't know.

But the cause of death was not "father went to bed".
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:thud:

If Dad had taken the child to his crib (after seeing Mom wasn't going to do it), his son would still be alive today.
 
oh_gal said:
:thud:

If Dad had taken the child to his crib (after seeing Mom wasn't going to do it), his son would still be alive today.
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You are assuming there even was a crib. From reports linked in this thread, this mom often slept on the couch with the baby.

Was there a crib?
I don't think we have that information.
 
I think the husband and all family members should be charged with negligence, endangering a child, failure to report (x the number of children). Can they test the baby for fetal alcohol syndrome? If the baby is found to have that charge them with accessory.

They had options. They could have filed an involuntary commitment for alcohol dependence and while she was in treatment the husband could have filed for divorce asking for full custody.

The very nerve of them to blame NG or anybody else.
 
Kimberlyd125 said:
You are assuming there even was a crib. From reports linked in this thread, this mom often slept on the couch with the baby.

Was there a crib?
I don't think we have that information.
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If Dad had removed the child from sleeping beside the mother, the child would not have died as a result of the mother suffocating him. If Dad had acted when he saw that Mom was not going to, the child would still be alive today.
 
oh_gal said:
If Dad had removed the child from sleeping beside the mother, the child would not have died as a result of the mother suffocating him. If Dad had acted when he saw that Mom was not going to, the child would still be alive today.
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Maybe the child would be alive today. But not necessarily. Not if mom continued to drink a liter of vodka a day. There is a good chance that something else would have happened.

I am not defending the father. I think he should shoulder much of the responsibility, as he allowed her to keep the child on the couch while she was drunk and tired. He is culpable, imo.
 
SapphireSteel said:
This is a double tragedy.

I have a friend (A) whose friend (B) immolated herself. It is an absolutely horrific way to die. B had actually driven herself to a garbage dump to do it. A now carries serious emotional pain every day because she didn't know B was suicidal, and feels incredible guilt and trauma knowing how lonely and agonising her friend's death was. B's other friends and family feel the same pain.

I'm sorry but I am full of compassion for this poor soul. The way she died is proof that she punished herself with shame and grief, far more than Nancy Grace or any of us could. It is an agonising, prolonged and horrific death and speaks volumes about self-hatred.

Yes she caused her baby to die because she was an alcoholic, but alcoholisim is a disease and should be treated as such. If this woman had've received some treatment before/during/after pregnancy the chances are both would still be alive.

Victimising this woman to death is not constructive, moral, Godly, or kind. We should be learning from our mistakes as a society, and taking steps to ensure that this sort of avoidable tragedy does not happen again. IMO it is a community failure and by demonising an ill woman we are ignoring our own roles in contributing to the tragedy by "turning a blind eye" when someone is in dire straits and needs help, as this lady so obviously was.
Click to expand...

This woman who suffered from alcoholism needed to WANT the help. Nobody could actually force her into sobriety. She had two DUI's in one month. Isn't that kind of a wake u call for a mother of four? If that didn't stop her, what was going to?
 
katydid23 said:
Maybe the child would be alive today. But not necessarily. Not if mom continued to drink a liter of vodka a day. There is a good chance that something else would have happened.

I am not defending the father. I think he should shoulder much of the responsibility, as he allowed her to keep the child on the couch while she was drunk and tired. He is culpable, imo.
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I was speaking of that particular instance -- that particular night. Yes, something else could have happened a week later, but that could be said of any of us.
 
Kimberlyd125 said:
You are assuming there even was a crib. From reports linked in this thread, this mom often slept on the couch with the baby.

Was there a crib?
I don't think we have that information.
Click to expand...

The dad had warned the mom about sleeping on the couch with the baby. If there was nowhere else to sleep, why warn her?
 
katydid23 said:
This woman who suffered from alcoholism needed to WANT the help. Nobody could actually force her into sobriety. She had two DUI's in one month. Isn't that kind of a wake u call for a mother of four? If that didn't stop her, what was going to?
Click to expand...

Nancy Grace? Not really, just frustrated with NG's holier than thou attitude for ratings. She needs to get off her high horse and quit encouraging the public to be such harsh judges of people. She didn't cause this woman to commit suicide, but she encouraged all sorts of public outrage. Did any of that help this situation? Not at all. jmo:seeya:
 
SapphireSteel said:
This is a double tragedy.

I have a friend (A) whose friend (B) immolated herself. It is an absolutely horrific way to die. B had actually driven herself to a garbage dump to do it. A now carries serious emotional pain every day because she didn't know B was suicidal, and feels incredible guilt and trauma knowing how lonely and agonising her friend's death was. B's other friends and family feel the same pain.

I'm sorry but I am full of compassion for this poor soul. The way she died is proof that she punished herself with shame and grief, far more than Nancy Grace or any of us could. It is an agonising, prolonged and horrific death and speaks volumes about self-hatred.

Yes she caused her baby to die because she was an alcoholic, but alcoholisim is a disease and should be treated as such. If this woman had've received some treatment before/during/after pregnancy the chances are both would still be alive.

Victimising this woman to death is not constructive, moral, Godly, or kind. We should be learning from our mistakes as a society, and taking steps to ensure that this sort of avoidable tragedy does not happen again. IMO it is a community failure and by demonising an ill woman we are ignoring our own roles in contributing to the tragedy by "turning a blind eye" when someone is in dire straits and needs help, as this lady so obviously was.
Click to expand...

She had a choice.

This infant died a slow, agonizing, horrific death as his mother smothered him to death. My compassion lies with this little soul that didn't have a choice.
 
ohiogirl said:
Nancy Grace? Not really, just frustrated with NG's holier than thou attitude for ratings. She needs to get off her high horse and quit encouraging the public to be such harsh judges of people. She didn't cause this woman to commit suicide, but she encouraged all sorts of public outrage. Did any of that help this situation? Not at all. jmo:seeya:
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I agree. I am not saying that NG is making great choices. I am just defending her against those saying she should have these suicides on her conscience. I don't agree with that position at all.

But should she show a bit more compassion and understanding, of course. But as I said earlier, until someone else does a 5 night a week show devoted to missing kids and murder victims, i am going to respect her for doing so herself. And sadly, unless she creates some drama and hyperbole, she would probably go off the air.
 
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