IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

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Walker said:
JW and JR were definitely members of the banned frat.
CR was also said to be a member (by posters on another site).
The roommates of JW were also members of the banned frat. His house was described as the unofficial frat house.
The altercation was originally said to have been instigated by friends of JW.

HT said that she and LS had spent a lot of time at JR's the previous year. Maybe HT-LS-JW-JR-others were then members of a clique associated with the remnant of the frat. Say the frat had plans of rehabilitating itself and getting back on campus. ZO (or other person associated with ZO) tried (perhaps in a now unofficial way) to join, but they were abused in some way. ZO-AB-BB therefore were hostile to the frat, and the two groups were continually in conflict.

HT started dating AB (?), and therefore no longer socialized with the banned frat. LS had to choose between the two groups.

The original reports stated that the altercation had something to do with the students on the floor trying to tell LS that she should stay with them at Smallwood, and not leave with CR. Might that explanation make some sense in a context of larger group-on-group friction? Were they demanding that she choose an alliance between the remnant of the frat (JW-JR-CR-MB-others) and ZO-AB-HT-BB-others?

The only problem with this scenario is that CR and JW would seem to not likely be on favorable terms; since apparently CR was dating LS, who was still JW's girlfriend. Also, the altercation was reportedly instigated by friends of JW. Plus, the confrontation at 5 North on the morning of June 3 has been described (perhaps not reliably) as JW confronting CR over LS's disappearance.

Maybe the frat-clique itself split:

JW-ZO-AB-HT-others vs. JR-CR-MB?

BTW: AB's comment about LS's body being hidden in a cave could be a clue. Per one TG poster, the area has a huge numbers of caves, and "partiers" frequent the huge storm drains which run for miles underneath the city. The perps could have accessed the storm drain through a tunnel, open from construction(?), maybe arranged a car to pick them up in some other part of the city, and then proceeded to a cave. Could there be an access point near 5 North?
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2 points. . .

1) JW's house was not the official frat house. There is no official frat house, there are multiple different houses, in which the guys live in. There is no designated frat house.

2) This frat had no intention of getting back on campus. They did not want to.
Their letters had already been taken over by a newly colonized fraternity under their letters. They are fine being off campus as far as I know.
 
I've had nothing to say for some time. So I wrote this for Lauren:


Lost little sprite

Stumbling barefoot on the gravel that night

To nowhere.

Searching for you,

Beating a path of footsteps

To everywhere.



Gone so very soon,

Unexpected pitfalls drawing you this June

To somewhere.

Searching for you,

Begging a word leading

To anywhere.



Promising smile,

Remembering your style all the while

In everything.

Finding you there

Praying a song playing

Everywhere.
 
I still am not sure I see HT as important and central to the night that others see her, but I have never ever believed that all of this happened and no texts or calls were made. Like, it feels like a lot of people believe no one texted or called JW and no one was furiously gossiping about everything that happened. Just isn't believable to me. I am assuming at the very least JW knew parts of what happened as they happened.
 
indianagirl315 said:
2 points. . .

1) JW's house was not the official frat house. There is no official frat house, there are multiple different houses, in which the guys live in. There is no designated frat house.
Click to expand...

My post said "unofficial." Since JW's roommates were former members, a poster described JW's home as the "unofficial" frat house.

2) This frat had no intention of getting back on campus. They did not want to.
Their letters had already been taken over by a newly colonized fraternity under their letters. They are fine being off campus as far as I know.
Click to expand...

This case has something to do with the social dynamics of the banned frat, its enemies or its internal conflicts.
 
phantomthought said:
HT not liking CR made me think that maybe that is the reason HT or LS other girl friends did not go with her that night.Either LS knew she was going to meet up with CR and did not want them to know or they did know and wanted no part of it.The only reason I say that is it seams very strange that CR and JR lived right next door to each other and were friends yet during the whole school year HT,LS never met him.Then they meet at the races and all of a sudden LS and CR are both at JR's at the same time which apparently has not happen during the whole school year.
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IDK, perhaps CR is what my daughter would call a "player" ... and HT felt LS already had a "non-player" in JW? What I do know is that it's possible, though not always pleasant, to have friends from groups that don't get along. My daughter does this, and one group can be less than warm and fuzzy toward the other. She's four years younger than LS and HT, though, so I'd expect less drama from their age group. Still ...

This might matter, IMO, if HT is subtly taking sides regarding the investigation, since how ones feels can influence what one says and does, even when trying to be objective.
 
bloom54 said:
perhaps... but I don't think that's a "given"... MOO
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Maybe it's not a given, but ...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,6774142.story

The friend said Wolff received no phone calls or visitors in the hours after his fraternity brothers confronted Spierer and Rossman at Smallwood.
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http://www.lohud.com/article/20110722/NEWS02/107220376

A couple weeks ago, police in Bloomington, Ind., searched the home that Wolff shared with former fraternity brothers.
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The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all. JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.
 
sueC said:
Thanks I found it! I only asked about it because I was curious to see JR on video, not to link JR and AB. After watching it again, I couldn't pick him out, although there were several guys there with similar short hair and features.
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I thought maybe he was the short guy in the black v-neck t-shirt standing around near the back. A more attractive than ben stiller look, lol. And that is the most positive thing I can say about JR.:crazy:

Mods: ben stiller the actor and public figure is allowed, isn't it?
 
Walker said:
... BTW: AB's comment about LS's body being hidden in a cave could be a clue. Per one TG poster, the area has a huge numbers of caves, and "partiers" frequent the huge storm drains which run for miles underneath the city. The perps could have accessed the storm drain through a tunnel, open from construction(?), maybe arranged a car to pick them up in some other part of the city, and then proceeded to a cave. Could there be an access point near 5 North?
Click to expand...

Walker, I'm not sure what I think about the frat connection ... and can't really get my head around it right now. But I was intrigued by your mention of caves (though I'm claustrophobic they fascinate me). There appear to be a lot of closed/restricted caves in Monroe County; for example, Mayfield's Cave (closed) is less than 5 miles from Bloomington. I found a list of closed/restricted caves: http://www.indiana-caves.org/public_area/closed_or_restricted_list_listing.asp

I don't know enough about caving (not the proper term, I'm sure) to know if it's even possible to access restricted/closed ones. My thought is that open ones would be too risky because of the traffic. Perhaps someone here who goes caving would be able to address this further. OTOH, perhaps it's something that LE and the search groups already thought of?
 
SUNchips said:
The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all. JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.
Click to expand...

Couldnt agree more.
 
indianagirl315 said:
2 points. . .

1) JW's house was not the official frat house. There is no official frat house, there are multiple different houses, in which the guys live in. There is no designated frat house.

2) This frat had no intention of getting back on campus. They did not want to.
Their letters had already been taken over by a newly colonized fraternity under their letters. They are fine being off campus as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Point 2 may be a case of sour grapes because had they wanted to remain in the frat they would have been barred from doing so as no previous members were accepted.
 
Hodge said:
JRNTT went down? Scuttlebutt from LSCD FB page...
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they get a little overdramatic on LSCD FB... the blog is back up.. sounds like she's having some issues and needs to do some upgrades...
 
bloom54 said:
they get a little overdramatic on LSCD FB... the blog is back up.. sounds like she's having some issues and needs to do some upgrades...
Click to expand...

Indeed. I don't even visit the LSCD page any more. I do drive-by's! :maddening:
 
Jupiter812 said:
Indeed. I don't even visit the LSCD page any more. I do drive-by's! :maddening:
Click to expand...

me too.. I'm absolutely afraid to post there... i just don't want to be associated with that drama

and, I don't cook... so the recipes aren't a draw!! :floorlaugh:
 
bloom54 said:
me too.. I'm absolutely afraid to post there... i just don't want to be associated with that drama

and, I don't cook... so the recipes aren't a draw!! :floorlaugh:
Click to expand...

LOL. You need the cyber equivalent of a sidearm to post. I'd probably do a hit and run. :floorlaugh:

Recipes? Hmm...tempting but I'm a food snob. :crazy:
 
SUNchips said:
The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all.
Click to expand...

We don't know the personal background of ZO, and the frat is known to make exceptions.

JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.
Click to expand...

Certainly, the reports do not necessarily point to the original "official" frat; my suggestion is more that after being banned the group had split into cliques. What if the split were something like this scenario:

JW-ZO-AB-HT-BB-others vs. JR-CR-MB-DR-LS-others?

A strong split with friction between the two groups might imply that members of JW's group are less likely to be culpable in LS's disappearance; since given the Smallwood altercation, they could not count on support or protection from JR or MB. Therefore, if JR or MB misrepresented the facts, they were only protecting themselves and/or CR.
 
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