2010.09.28 Levi P. Show: JonBenet Case Heats up! Tricia from WS weighs in

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madeleine said:
JR on the B.Walters show
re the nightgown

"it's strange....it shouldn't have been there...it's a clue of some type...."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Video/playerIndex?id=2114755

Why shouldn't it have been there?What's so strange about it being there anyway?
Click to expand...

It's not a stupid clue...it got there accidently via static cling. Hitching a ride on the blanket that was taken out of the dryer. My daughter had a Barbie gown like that, and the material was so full of static cling, even with a dryer sheet, that I would have to pull it apart, just to put it on my daughter. John or Patsy...whichever one pulled the blanket from the dryer...didn't see the gown. We had a basement like that in MT, and at night even with a light on...it is hard to see, there just wasn't enough light.
 
KoldKase said:
I agree.

And why didn't Patsy bring up with whom JB was "flirting" in her 1998 BDA interview, when Haney asked her if she knew JB had been molested prior to that night. Haney asked her point blank if she knew anything that might help them figure this out...and she said, No...show me the evidence.

She knew. I believe that without a doubt.
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I'm dumbfounded that a mother would accuse her 6 year old daughter of flirting. How could she transfer such a mature ability on her? I'm 46 years old, & have never seen a 6year old flirt. It's not possible! That makes me really question Patsy's reasoning. If she'd blame her for that, what else would she blame her for?
 
dodie20 said:
I'm dumbfounded that a mother would accuse her 6 year old daughter of flirting. How could she transfer such a mature ability on her? I'm 46 years old, & have never seen a 6year old flirt. It's not possible! That makes me really question Patsy's reasoning. If she'd blame her for that, what else would she blame her for?
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I've seen it. It's actually quite common for sexually abused children, and it's quite common for young pagent contestants, shoot, their mothers pay coaches to teach them how!
 
I also found the flirting remark odd, but then I considered her performances at the pageants, where the little girls are coached and encouraged to play up to the judges, make "pretty eyes" and, for lack of a better word, "flirt" with them in order to make a connection and get the highest score. If you've ever watched "Toddlers & Tiaras," you will see that these youngsters are coached to do just that. I think it's likely that JBR transferred this behavior over to her personal life as well. I still find Patsy's word to be odd, however; in some ways, it's almost as if she perceived her daughter to be her rival.
 
KoldKase said:
I agree that she didn't go down there alone. She might have gone with someone. I've always had a haunting question about that duvet and the children's Dr. Seuss book found in the suitcase; perhaps someone took her there to read, and the doll went with her. Just a guess, though, no way to know, except that Smit stated UNDER OATH that JB had fibers from the duvet on the outside of her clothes. How did that happen if she didn't come into contact with it? It was inside the suitcase, after all.

I don't think transference is a good excuse, either, because even then, it was IN THE SUITCASE. Who went in there and got those fibers on his/her clothes for some odd reason and just happened to transfer them onto JB innocently the night she was murdered? See what I mean?

Oh well. JB's blood was on the pillowcase in her bed, Haney implied in the 1998 interview with Patsy, so something bad happened to her in that room or near it. Then she's downstairs, getting duvet fibers on her outer clothing.

Smit liked to say he thought someone tried to put JB in the suitcase. If she was initially attacked upstairs, either in her bed or laid in her bed at some point, bleeding, then were there duvet fibers on the bed or pillowcase? If so, then either the pillow went into the basement and was brought back upstairs, or she was brought back upstairs to the pillow from the basement.

Hey, how exactly do we actually know that the suitcase was in the basement before that night? The Ramseys told us. JAR? But what about someone like LHP, an outside source?

Well, that would explain why JAR needed a lawyer to talk to LE, as well. Maybe the suitcase was in his room that night? Do we know? Sorry, memory is escaping me on this evidence.

Oh heck, I'm tired of this case. I'm tired of chasing my tail over what ifs and who said and maybes. I give up. Y'all figure it out. And good luck with that.
Click to expand...

If you do that, JonBenet will lose a Very Vital Person that OBVIOUSLY cares for her so much that it hurts her to not have answers she needs to satisfy her Soul...please look around and see how necessary you are before you give your final answer, KK?!
 
KoldKase said:
Oh, and when y'all solve the case, drop me a postcard. I'll be at the Georgia Rest Home for Ramsey Case Fugitives.
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Dear KoldKase,
Don't give up hope that this case will be solved. I may be joining you in that rest home before it is. Keep on praying and hoping, even if you have given up posting, that the killer of JBR is caught.
 
I've seen "Toddlers and Tiaras" I've seen JB's pageant videos. JB was a natural, with her it wasn't forced-looking.
 
These are the things NO SFF/stranger intruder would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.

They would have assaulted/killed her, left her where she lay, and got the he** out of there.

These are the things someone who loved and cared about JB would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Wrap her in her favorite blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.
 
DeeDee249 said:
These are the things NO SFF/stranger intruder would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.

They would have assaulted/killed her, left her where she lay, and got the he** out of there.

These are the things someone who loved and cared about JB would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Wrap her in her favorite blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.
Click to expand...


Don't forget:

Feed her pineapple
do her hair
tie her wrists so loose
duct tape an unconscious or dead child's mouth
wait until inside the house to write the ransom note
kidnappers don't leave the kidnapped behind
Child molesting murdering ransom kidnappers that leave the body? WTH?

and after all that, the "intruder" ....eyeroll....went back upstairs to lay the note on the spiral staircase before escaping through the basement window.

*the red ink heart on her palm reminds me of the red heart sticker on Caylee Anthony's duct taped mouth. I filed that under, "things a twisted mother would do".
 
Linda7NJ said:
I've seen it. It's actually quite common for sexually abused children, and it's quite common for young pagent contestants, shoot, their mothers pay coaches to teach them how!
Click to expand...
yes,I think they tell them to wink at the judges and things like that.
 
madeleine said:
Why?To me it screams exact the opposite (child involvment or IDI)

I mean you gotta be a complete MORON to place her fav. doll AND her fav. nightgown next to her body.Why would you even bother to write a RN if you make SURE that by placing all this stuff next to her you will be targeted.You gotta be a complete *advertiser censored*!Why bother staging a brutal crime anyway then?
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I'm sorry but I just have to say something even if it gets me kicked off here. Using the "R" word is about as socially unacceptable as using the "N" word. Please don't!
 
DeeDee249 said:
These are the things NO SFF/stranger intruder would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.

They would have assaulted/killed her, left her where she lay, and got the he** out of there.

These are the things someone who loved and cared about JB would do:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Wrap her in her favorite blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the body.
Click to expand...

my bold

u r the best, DeeDee...

Things a kidnapper might do prior to moving JBR to a car:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the [living] body.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
my bold

u r the best, DeeDee...

Things a kidnapper might do prior to moving JBR to a car:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the [living] body.
Click to expand...


My bold

But.....she wasn't moved to a car and technically she wasn't even kidnapped.

Things a real kidnapper does:

Get in and out as quietly and quickly as possible.
A note is not necessary, a payphone call will do.
And most importantly, take the intended target of the kidnapping.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Don't forget:

Feed her pineapple
do her hair
tie her wrists so loose
duct tape an unconscious or dead child's mouth
wait until inside the house to write the ransom note
kidnappers don't leave the kidnapped behind
Child molesting murdering ransom kidnappers that leave the body? WTH?
Click to expand...

Wrist ligature, duct tape, hair, pineapple are all consistent with a living captive. Keep it up you guys are doing great.

Linda7NJ said:
Child molesting murdering ransom kidnappers that leave the body? WTH?
Click to expand...

We're told by the FBI that what you call molestation wasn't done for the perpetrators gratification, so there's somthing wrong with your analysis there.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Don't forget:

Feed her pineapple
do her hair
tie her wrists so loose
duct tape an unconscious or dead child's mouth
wait until inside the house to write the ransom note
kidnappers don't leave the kidnapped behind
Child molesting murdering ransom kidnappers that leave the body? WTH?

and after all that, the "intruder" ....eyeroll....went back upstairs to lay the note on the spiral staircase before escaping through the basement window.

*the red ink heart on her palm reminds me of the red heart sticker on Caylee Anthony's duct taped mouth. I filed that under, "things a twisted mother would do".
Click to expand...

Oh Yeah..Escaping just in time for Patsy to wake up, put her dirty clothes back on :snooty: apply her full make-up after Not Showering, make the hysterical crying for help 911 call and then answer the door minutes later for the first Officer to arrive WITH her Make-Up fully intact...if it were not for the dead child hidden in the basement where Patsy still had to finish wrapping the presents for the trip to Michigan and finish packing - all in one hour before they had to be at the airport...I'd have to laugh at the plausibility. That Patsy was truly a work of Art...but only comparable to her own paintings.

RR
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
my bold


Things a kidnapper might do prior to moving JBR to a car:

Redress the body.
Wipe blood from the body.
Take the time to look in the dryer for a blanket that they had no way of knowing was there.
Wrap the body in a blanket.
Place favorite dolls or nightie near the [living] body.
Click to expand...

This makes no sense at all. These are not the actions of a "kidnapper." Especially one who means to take the victim and collect the money.
 
KoldKase said:
This makes no sense at all. These are not the actions of a "kidnapper." Especially one who means to take the victim and collect the money.
Click to expand...

Especially if you have to sneak yourself back out the basement window carrying a dead cild...all while not disturbing one strand of the Spider Web! Come on, KK - sometimes you just have to laugh at lengths some will go to that only helps prove how unbelievable the Ramseys variety of various versions are! Their Defenders, just like with Sue Bennet, have only helped the IDI Theory prove more & more to be nothing more than what it is...Intrusive to the Investigation!

Smile~
RR
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Wrist ligature, duct tape, hair, pineapple are all consistent with a living captive. Keep it up you guys are doing great.



We're told by the FBI that what you call molestation wasn't done for the perpetrators gratification, so there's somthing wrong with your analysis there.
Click to expand...

The wrist ligature was never tight enough to constrict any movement whatsover, except maybe doing jumping jacks. Also, no bruising of the wrists from struggling with ligatures means it was never struggled against, so it's a reasonable guess that it was never part of any expectation to subdue the child.

The duct tape was put on after the child drooled from her mouth down the right side of her face. She was found in rigor, with her face turned to the right, so it's a reasonable conclusion that saliva was running down her face as she lay as she was found in the basement. That means she was still, she was probably dead, and the duct tape was put on after her death. Staging, not for silencing her.

Hair--?? Dead people have it, too. Don't follow you on that one.

Pineapple: you think she ate pineapple with a kidnapper, who stopped for a snack on the way to the car? While her parents and brother slept upstairs? And she never uttered a peep?

"We're told by the FBI"...? I must have missed that briefing. I have never seen "the FBI" report that states that, nor any FBI statement saying it either. I'm sure you'll direct me to your source and reference, and thanks in advance. Can't wait for that one.

"...what you call molestation wasn't done for the perpetrators gratification...": just how would "the FBI" know that? They don't even know who the killer is. And since she was already molested before that night, and god only knows how many times, if not for the perv's gratification, then what was going on? Practicing for GYN exams? The paintbrush rape I agree was not for the perp's gratification. It was for covering up the sexual crimes committed against her before that night.
 
RiverRat said:
Especially if you have to sneak yourself back out the basement window carrying a dead cild...all while not disturbing one strand of the Spider Web! Come on, KK - sometimes you just have to laugh at lengths some will go to that only helps prove how unbelievable the Ramseys variety of various versions are! Their Defenders, just like with Sue Bennet, have only helped the IDI Theory prove more & more to be nothing more than what it is...Intrusive to the Investigation!

Smile~
RR
Click to expand...

You know, I often wonder what the REAL reason is behind the complete inability for some to even consider the parents might be involved. As RDI, I actually would consider someone outside the family IF there were other evidence of this besides someone's skin cells that exist NOWHERE else on the crime scene. Yet, some people refuse to even consider the parents are involved, despite the opinion of experts in both forensics and LE. Not just refuse, but virulently refuse. I have theories about that, too.
 
DeeDee249 said:
You know, I often wonder what the REAL reason is behind the complete inability for some to even consider the parents might be involved. As RDI, I actually would consider someone outside the family IF there were other evidence of this besides someone's skin cells that exist NOWHERE else on the crime scene. Yet, some people refuse to even consider the parents are involved, despite the opinion of experts in both forensics and LE. Not just refuse, but virulently refuse. I have theories about that, too.
Click to expand...

So do I.
 
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