2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

mydailyopinions · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
[/U][/B]

That's how I read it, but does anyone have a clue as to WHY he would do that (and then go straight to OCSD immediately after recording meeting with Baez to "confess"?)

Have been reading up on JJ and what he is claiming now, as opposed to what he apparently posted online in forums early in the case, so what purpose did he have in secretly recording meeting with Baez?

Hinky.....(but answer will probably be even hinkier!)

Maybe just as a way of getting himself out of this crap..OR, he felt that the Baez was trying in some way to throw him under the bus because he was in the area, so he covered his azz! Too bad LE didn't listen to the recording..

Searchfortruth · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
Would the defense still be required to hand over (as discovery) opinions of experts they employ to the state, even if their opinion is not favorable to the defense?

I have absolutely, none, zilch confidence that trial will start in summer of 2010

I agree that Baez hasn't even begun to start filing his continuances yet. If you go back to the very few cases he has defended, they are full of continuances due to "defense not ready to proceed". I do not expect any different in this case (unless Judge Strickland :furious::furious::furious

BBM.

Thats a good question. I don't think their conclusions would be open to the state's scrutiny unless they were formally added to the witness list ? Then the state could depose them ? That's just a guess on my part though.

By the way, how many people has the defense deposed ? IIRC, it's countable on one hand ?

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

BeanE said:
I didn't realize that that one short exam of the trunk by Henry Lee is the only evidence exam the defense has done. Wth is going on??
Certainly the defendant can choose to not review the evidence...

That's a novel approach...

Not to be redundant, but I think it is really important that Dr Lee stated that he needed to return to finish reviewing the vehicle BUT NEVER HAS!

Direct quote from motion:

The only evidence review to date occurred on November 14, 2008 when Dr. Henry Lee examined the defendant's vehicle at the Orange County Sheriff's Office noting that he would need to return to finish the exam at a later date. He has yet to do so.

BeanE · Dec 9, 2009

Searchfortruth said:
I think that their "experts" didn't say what they wanted them to say. It will be interesting to see who they come up with, come trial time, if they come up with anyone.I have the feeling that Jose and Co. are going to delay, delay, delay. I am glad to see the state is pushing full steam ahead !

But how can the experts render an opinion without ever looking at the evidence? Would they just go on speculation to save travel and time costs to go and examine the evidence? That would awfully risky. Not impossible, but risky.

JSR · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
[/U][/B]

That's how I read it, but does anyone have a clue as to WHY he would do that (and then go straight to OCSD immediately after recording meeting with Baez to "confess"?)

Have been reading up on JJ and what he is claiming now, as opposed to what he apparently posted online in forums early in the case, so what purpose did he have in secretly recording meeting with Baez?

Hinky.....(but answer will probably be even hinkier!)

I'm not sure who "JJ" is, but when I read the motion I took it's meaning differently. I don't think he was "confessing" anything but rather wanted to show what perhaps was inappropriate questioning by Baez.

Although with this case nothing should really surprise me. It just gets crazier by the day and the crazier it gets the more Caylee no longer becomes the focus.

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

Searchfortruth said:
BBM.

Thats a good question. I don't think their conclusions would be open to the state's scrutiny unless they were formally added to the witness list ? Then the state could depose them ? That's just a guess on my part though.

By the way, how many people has the defense deposed ? IIRC, it's countable on one hand ?

But did I read once on this board that even if it is not favorable to your side, it must be turned over, or does that only apply to the prosecution (meaning if evidence etc is favorable to defendant, it must be shared?) Can't recall....

To your second question about deposed witnesses......LDB addresses this in the motion and if I recall, she states a few depositions were started but never completed (of witnesses) but that to date, no investigators or LE have been deposed by Baez?

cyberborg · Dec 9, 2009

mydailyopinions said:
Maybe just as a way of getting himself out of this crap..OR, he felt that the Baez was trying in some way to throw him under the bus because he was in the area, so he covered his azz! Too bad LE didn't listen to the recording..

I'd suspect that the Defense were asking leading questions or suggesting JJ lie or spin his testimony and that he was uncomfortable with their questionable tactics, since this wasn't an official depo on-the-record so JJ called LE to cover his a$$ -- but it is illegal.

Interesting though .... that the motion alludes to dirty dealing and defense witnesses squealing.

Ditto with JB playing silly reindeer games refusing to identify the RK witnesses .... playing delay delay because this was just really a media tactic and he wanted to drag it out as long as he could before the air goes out of that balloon.

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

BeanE said:
But how can the experts render an opinion without ever looking at the evidence? Would they just go on speculation to save travel and time costs to go and examine the evidence? That would awfully risky. Not impossible, but risky.

At least as far as some of the documentation reports that we have received in doc dumps, I suppose that JB could have sent those to his "experts" for review but they couldn't offer a rebuttal to what the test results offered?

Kinda like we have been doing with the doc dump reports, although we are not deemed "experts" by the court..........yet.....:dance:

mydailyopinions · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
At least as far as some of the documentation reports that we have received in doc dumps, I suppose that JB could have sent those to his "experts" for review but they couldn't offer a rebuttal to what the test results offered?

Kinda like we have been doing with the doc dump reports, although we are not deemed "experts" by the court..........yet.....:dance:

That or..
He didn't like hearing them say "show me the money"
:woohoo:

Searchfortruth · Dec 9, 2009

BeanE said:
But how can the experts render an opinion without ever looking at the evidence? Would they just go on speculation to save travel and time costs to go and examine the evidence? That would awfully risky. Not impossible, but risky.

Maybe they have already given an opinion based on what they have seen and read, discovery, pictures from scene, etc...The defense wouldn't pay unless they were sure the expert could offer something worthy to their client's case. Either they are broke or the experts are not delivering, IMO.

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

mydailyopinions said:
Maybe just as a way of getting himself out of this crap..OR, he felt that the Baez was trying in some way to throw him under the bus because he was in the area, so he covered his azz! Too bad LE didn't listen to the recording..

Ahhhh....got it. Conversation was getting a little to uncomfortable and hinky for JJ, so he pulled the old "push record on the cellphone" trick as protection....does make sense now!!

cyberborg · Dec 9, 2009

BeanE said:
But how can the experts render an opinion without ever looking at the evidence? Would they just go on speculation to save travel and time costs to go and examine the evidence? That would awfully risky. Not impossible, but risky.

IIRC they were doing it online to save travel money, thus the secure server with access to the forensic reports and autopsy results and photos --- then they needed it on CD because they are technology challenged. Still does not answer when/if they are going to examine the physical evidence and complete things, such as the car.

Seems the bigger focus is on the dumping of Caylee's remains and the timing of that. Does it all hing on that since the forensics are damning but "junk science" to them nonetheless?

sumbunny · Dec 9, 2009

I feel ridiculous asking but who is J.J (how does he relate to the case?)

mydailyopinions · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
Ahhhh....got it. Conversation was getting a little to uncomfortable and hinky for JJ, so he pulled the old "push record on the cellphone" trick as protection....does make sense now!!

Number 5 of the motion states:
"All individuals surreptitiously recorded have declined prosecution and the Orange County Sheriffs Office cleared and closed the case"

Now, why would Baez not prosecute unless something really horrid was in that recording? This was a witness who claimed the body was not there when he searched....I'd think that Baez needed his testimony..:waitasec:

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

sumbunny said:
I feel ridiculous asking but who is J.J (how does he relate to the case?)

I could give a quick synopsis but this posting is more detailed....about halfway down.....his name is Joseph Jordan and he was a searcher, although there is debate as to whether or not he was searching as a member of TES

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=899

Searchfortruth · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
But did I read once on this board that even if it is not favorable to your side, it must be turned over, or does that only apply to the prosecution (meaning if evidence etc is favorable to defendant, it must be shared?) Can't recall....

To your second question about deposed witnesses......LDB addresses this in the motion and if I recall, she states a few depositions were started but never completed (of witnesses) but that to date, no investigators or LE have been deposed by Baez?

BBM.

I know the state is required to turn over any evidence that points towards the defendant's innocence. I don't think the defense is required to turn over any conversations they have had with potential experts, only if they have deposed them and are calling them at trial. If I am mistaken, please feel free to correct.

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

mydailyopinions said:
Number 5 of the motion states:
"All individuals surreptitiously recorded have declined prosecution and the Orange County Sheriffs Office cleared and closed the case"

Now, why would Baez not prosecute unless something really horrid was in that recording? This was a witness who claimed the body was not there when he searched....I'd think that Baez needed his testimony..:waitasec:

Perhaps because Baez' line of questioning had become very leading (in a not so good way) and if he DID choose to prosecute, his tactics would become public knowledge (even if they are not supposed to be disclosed....). Baez sure doesn't want the speculation out there that he is leading ANY witnesses at all...perhaps he is going into "cover thy azz" mode....

nssherlock · Dec 9, 2009

The World According said:
She is going to mop the floor with the defense!!! What is interesting is that none , NONE of the would be experts on the defense team have requested to view ANY of the evidence, ANY OF IT, save for H. Lee looking at the car early on. Am I reading that right? If that is the case, the trial is very far away of they haven't even started. They sure have spent a lot of time on nonsense that is inconsequential and not going to ever be admitted at trial. Wow. It is a good day for you Caylee, we are getting closer to getting you some justice!!!

I was struck too that NO evidence review has been done by the defense......which made me think it might be a clue that they plan to plea in the end. Possible ya think?

Kentjbkent · Dec 9, 2009

cyberborg said:
IIRC they were doing it online to save travel money, thus the secure server with access to the forensic reports and autopsy results and photos --- then they needed it on CD because they are technology challenged. Still does not answer when/if they are going to examine the physical evidence and complete things, such as the car.

Seems the bigger focus is on the dumping of Caylee's remains and the timing of that. Does it all hing on that since the forensics are damning but "junk science" to them nonetheless?

Maybe because Joy W and others are cheaper than Henry Lee and other "high profile experts"????

cyberborg · Dec 9, 2009

Kentjbkent said:
Perhaps because Baez' line of questioning had become very leading (in a not so good way) and if he DID choose to prosecute, his tactics would become public knowledge (even if they are not supposed to be disclosed....). Baez sure doesn't want the speculation out there that he is leading ANY witnesses at all...perhaps he is going into "cover thy azz" mode....

True ...... and this motion surreptiously puts it out there, even if it is speculation reading between the lines :dance:

2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

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