AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

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I wish I could find Friday's presser where LE stated that they were only trying to identify the five, and anyone else in the video is already known. I was lead to believe that the man behind the wall was already known to LE. Seriously, we can assume they have had that video all week.

It was my understanding as well that his presence in the video was already known to LE, however there was no elaboration on his identification or whether or not LE was interested in him.

MOO
 
I looked at this video again. And again. Something seems...off kilter about the kid who went over to the house with his father.. Have no idea why I feel this,but I do.

Also, the narrator on the video mentions that the Celis family was not there when they went over.

Something not right with this...MOO

With good or bad intentions, they appear desperate to make contact the family.
 

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I am not real sure about it being the exact tree, hard to tell from the angle. There are a number of trees spaced along the wall there so not sure
 
Latinos are not necessarily Caucasian. Most Latinos from Mexico are indigenous/European mix, not straight Caucasian. Some are black, etc. Latinos comes in all colors! That's why there is a box to check for "non-white Hispanic" on many forms.



Right. There are many more cases where a child dies from abuse, not intentionally murdered, but homicide due to abuse, and they cover it up with a "kidnapping." I'm thinking that is the case with many of our missing kids who have not been found yet, like Hailey Dunn, Baby Lisa, Haleigh Cummings, Ayla Reynolds, Aliayah Lunsford, etc.

It is a viable theory in such a case at this. But, like Oceanblueeyes, I don't feel the parents in this case fit the pattern at all. Usually the type that abuse their kids to death and try to cover it up are younger parents, or often step parents or new, blended families with new boyfriends/girlfriends in the picture, and usually the families have a much lower economic status and often a criminal history involving drugs.

But, it makes sense to look at the possibility of that angle.



The UK is much more similar statistically to the US than the rest of Western Europe when it comes to sex crimes/crimes against children.





It really irritated me. Watch again how they just hang on that door handle like they have a right to be there, even while the police are talking to them. And, didn't I hear that they went over there AFTER being tensely questioned? Or, am I wrong about that. One would think that a man and his teenaged son would be the last people to want to be seen lurking around the house where a baby girl has gone missing. Who are they and what right did they think they had to be there?

Yes, Gitana, that's it. MOO Watch the kid's face when he glances at the LEO by the door... There is an almost...territorial look on his face. MOO

The Celis' have family on the block. Wouldn't family members feed their dogs ? MOO
 
So, Galiuro, a car cannot drive behind Office Max from the main parking area, correct? A car would have to come down the service alley from Craycroft, right? There's a curb on both sides of Office Max back there? This is why the LE used it at first as a command center, they also blocked off the side street at Cooper.

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Oh, and how high would you say that wall is?
 
I think the five people on the video are red herrings and it'll turn out they were just twentysomethings heading home after a night at a local bar.
 
Thanks to another website, I found LE's neighborhood canvass questionnaire. It's quite lengthy.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/557339/pdf-tpd-neighborhood-canvass

Wow. Great find.

I do not want to sidetrack from this topic, but yes if you are from Spain or Latino of mestizo blood, you may self identify as Caucasian, however many Latinos identify as indigenous, meaning in north/south/central America or the Caribbean before the Caucasian, meaning Spanish, Portuguese, or other Europeans came. If you self identify as Maya( not extinct like dinosaurs, that's just a media lie), Azteca, Taina, Afro Caribbean, etc, then you are Latino-Non-Caucasian. Not all Latinos are Caucasian. Most Latinos are a mix of caucasian, african, and indigenous blood. Plenty Latinos check 'other' on that form because our heritage is too diverse to fit into White (Hispanic). Personally i think this is whitewashing of minorities . There is a native american box for native north americans, but not for native south or central americans.Too off topic and irrelevant. But if it helps, I will say Latinos can be mistaken for American Caucasians of non Hispanic origin.

You said it better than I!

I drove thru the area in back of the Office Max this morning, sorry did not have camera...it is a driveway just north of an entrance to St Joes, its a driveway wide enough for two cars and well traveled enough to have speed bumps in it. Of interest was a tree next to the wall that had yellow tap wrapped around it, looked to be police tape, as I could make out 'do not cross' on it. The tree itself is beside couple piles of bound cardboard sitting on a wood pallet on the side of the curb. So looked to me like at one time they had bound the area off for some sort of police examination/forensics...nothing else remarkable about the area, except to say that the dumpster for Office Max is up against the Office Max building, snug up to the western side, so whoever the figure is in the film, he ain't taking out the trash...

Big important question. Is there a back door where we see the figure on the tape?

Finally, the boy and his father. I hope Patty G is right and they were there to feed the dogs. The dad appears to resemble a skinny white neighbor that was in a media interview very early on that perked my ears up when I first saw him. Just an overeager type.

But, it does look like a match, Patty G with the door with the dog and the gate they are going through. However, I thought that footage of the door with the dog was in reference to the neighbor's dog, since she was home at the time. I don't know. Otherwise, who was there at the Celis home at time of the ABC neighbor interview who had the door/gate open and the dog easily able to come out?
 
Been lurking on here for months, finally registered. Yay!!! :woohoo:
I will have comments on this case when I process a bit of what I have read. :seeya:
 
I think the five people on the video are red herrings and it'll turn out they were just twentysomethings heading home after a night at a local bar.

I think most of us are assuming they just want to talk to the five to see if they witnessed anything at all. It seems clear they are coming back from a night out - two guys and three gals. No one is really thinking they had anything to do with this but any tiny thing they might have seen could be important which would lift them from red herring territory.
 
It really irritated me. Watch again how they just hang on that door handle like they have a right to be there, even while the police are talking to them. And, didn't I hear that they went over there AFTER being tensely questioned? Or, am I wrong about that. One would think that a man and his teenaged son would be the last people to want to be seen lurking around the house where a baby girl has gone missing. Who are they and what right did they think they had to be there?
SBM.

I got the impression that it wasn't Isa's door...at least it didn't seem to be so (the several narrow white-painted posts). That segment moved from place to place while talking about neighbors being interviewed.

However, I don't think we've seen a photo of Isa's entire front porch (just the dog thru the front window).

I could be mistaken, IDK.
 
Been lurking on here for months, finally registered. Yay!!! :woohoo:
I will have comments on this case when I process a bit of what I have read. :seeya:

:fireworks::welcome::fireworks:
 
It's an unsolved case, so any theory is going to be speculation. But it doesn't make sense to me that you don't believe that parents could accidentally kill their child and then cover it up, but you'll believe that an intruder would murder a child in their home, while the rest of the family slept. You posted that you can't find any cases where parents covered up the accidental death of the child, but how many cases do you know where a child was murdered in their home by an intruder?

I can think of at least one, but I can't find it and I can't remember the name. :banghead:
It was just on the ID channel a few days ago I think? Possibly a serial killer victim?
It was a teen girl who was murdered in her bedroom, while her parents slept and they found her body in the morning.
Hopefully someone remembers the case because it is going to bug me now. :banghead:

I'm thinking that the neighbor (father and son) might be going to the house to feed the dog(s).

I was wondering if I was missing something...
I didn't think they would go there if they didn't belong... confronting LE in the process... and LE could stop them if they were trespassing.

I figured that they were probably going over there because they were asked by the family to do so. (Dogs, mail, utilities, supplies...)
I thought that the family might be a little busy looking for Isa and freaking out... to go over there and handle those things. :twocents:
 
If they were going to feed the dogs, and there was a police presence...wouldn't someone have informed the police of this beforehand? Or at least told them to approach the officers first before going in?
 
Yes, that is correct, the only way a car can get back there is by driving down the wide alley between the buildings. It is pretty open for an individual on foot; it is only a sidewalk/curb keeping someone on foot from getting back there. It was a pretty good setup for the command post as they could control it fairly well.

The height of the wall, I'm going to say maybe 5 feet? It sort of steps uphill towards the east, the corner of the wall is on higher ground than where the tree is. The whole alley in general seems lower than the parking lot of the church so that the wall on the church side seems shorter in height than it appears on the Office Max side.
 
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