17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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I read that differently. I thought he had paid the full 15k-but only used 5k out of the paypal account towards it.

oh here this might help:

Last week the judge let out Zimmerman on $150,000 bail, of which his family spent three days scrambling to post the $15,000 needed for the bail bondsman. They even mortgaged one of their properties to come up with the money. It’s unclear why they did not use more of the PayPal funds.


It has been asked again and again why GZ let his parents put up their home as collateral when he had cash in the paypal account.

The answer is simple, I suspect: GZ intends to show up for trial, so he knows his parents' home isn't in danger. Any cash from the paypal account that he used for bond would not also be available for legal expenses.

As handled, there's a temporary lien on the property and plenty of money to pay for experts, tests, etc.
 
My comments are in red. I'd also like to mention that my husband was in a accident, hit by a vehicle and thrown 10-15' landing on pavement surrounded by railroad ties. His head hit a railroad tie and landed on the pavement. GZ had more of a laceration on his head than my husband had. Hubby's forehead laceration was about an inch long and no stitches. He did have road rash on his arm and knee. Hubby was knocked unconscious and ended up with TBI. So I don't think we can look at one head injury and expect all to look the same.

I had missed until now that the FBI analyzed the scream and it was inconclusive or it was not TMs voice. I wonder if they used a sample of TMs voice in addition to GZs.

Interesting.
 
bbm
You raise some interesting points Karmady. especially the one about George insisting he should be arrested. I can honestly say I don't think I thought of it in that way.

No one expects GZ to ask to be arrested. But to those of us who believe he lied to avoid arrest, that is damning enough.
 
"John" said that a man wearing a red sweater was on bottom. Neither Trayvon nor Zimmerman were wearing a red sweater so that makes me question if "John" really was close enough to see clearly or not. Personally I feel that if "John" can not be accurate in what either was wearing then I have to look at his entire account as questionable.

MOO

There are still only two people involved in the scuffle, and if Jonn saw the one on top dead in the grass and George is still alive, George would have to have been the one on the bottom yelling for help when John was outside, regardless of whether he was wearing a red jacket, fleece or sweater. Particularly since there's no dispute that Trayvon had on a gray sweatshirt with nothing red about it.

Personally, I think splitting hairs among the words sweater, jacket, fleece or whatever is just that - splitting hairs. The question is whether it was red and whether the person wearing it was on the bottom. Nonetheless, it still begs the question of how the altercation started in the first place and there, we have two witnesses (George or his family member and the gf) who agree that mildly confrontational words were exchanged. Imo, that's where the focus should be. How did both George and Travyon respond to those mildly confrontational words that both sides agree were spoken. Did Trayvon attack George because he was scared or po'd or both, or did George attack him and/or show him his weapon. Personally, I don't think we will ever know the answer to that question with certainty. That's why I think that there may be sufficient evidence to support a finding by the court that the preponderence establishes immunity at an SYG preliminary hearing, and certainly that the prosecution won't be able to prove murder 2 beyond a reasonable doubt unless there is some very significant evidence of which we are not yet aware. And that's true, imo, regardless of whether George is actually guilty or not. jmo
 
I had missed until now that the FBI analyzed the scream and it was inconclusive or it was not TMs voice. I wonder if they used a sample of TMs voice in addition to GZs.

Interesting.

Where are you getting that from?
 
It has been asked again and again why GZ let his parents put up their home as collateral when he had cash in the paypal account.

The answer is simple, I suspect: GZ intends to show up for trial, so he knows his parents' home isn't in danger. Any cash from the paypal account that he used for bond would not also be available for legal expenses.

As handled, there's a temporary lien on the property and plenty of money to pay for experts, tests, etc.
I agree Nova. But,I just think perhaps they still had to consider if it made sense to avoid the entire 15k cost of the bondsman overall.
I think being thrust into a situation of this magnitude and not being versed on what it takes to succesfully maneuver through what could potentially be a long, expensive road they needed to weigh things out.
I mean pehaps in their minds there is not going to be a trial so why spend 15k if they didn't have to?
I am not addressing the propriety or impropriety of the funds or the disclosure of them- only addressing the practical use of them.
 
Yes, same interview as I posted, in which John also states, "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Maybe he meant "stop" yelling? JMO

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1tN2jbYFE

Perhaps, but I suspect John was simply careless with the pronoun "he". As John is in the statement you quote above.

I speculate that John meant he told the guy on top to "stop" and then went to phone 911. (I also think it's possible that John simply assumed the guy on the bottom was the victim and therefore the one shouting, an assumption any of us might make.)
 
I went back and grabbed this link from Torismom

Where are you getting that from?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

GILBREATH: Did I?

O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

GILBREATH: No.
 
I had missed until now that the FBI analyzed the scream and it was inconclusive or it was not TMs voice. I wonder if they used a sample of TMs voice in addition to GZs.

Interesting.

Do you happen to have a link handy for this new revelation?


~jmo~
 
Where are you getting that from?

It came from one of my previous posts. This is what we were talking about:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

GILBREATH: Did I?

O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

GILBREATH: No.
 
There are still only two people involved in the scuffle, and if Jonn saw the one on top dead in the grass and George is still alive, George would have to have been the one on the bottom yelling for help when John was outside, regardless of whether he was wearing a red jacket, fleece or sweater. Particularly since there's no dispute that Trayvon had on a gray sweatshirt with nothing red about it.

Personally, I think splitting hairs among the words sweater, jacket, fleece or whatever is just that - splitting hairs.
The question is whether it was red and whether the person wearing it was on the bottom. Nonetheless, it still begs the question of how the altercation started in the first place and there, we have two witnesses (George or his family member and the gf) who agree that mildly confrontational words were exchanged. Imo, that's where the focus should be. How did both George and Travyon respond to those mildly confrontational words that both sides agree were spoken. Did Trayvon attack George because he was scared or po'd or both, or did George attack him and/or show him his weapon. Personally, I don't think we will ever know the answer to that question with certainty. That's why I think that there may be sufficient evidence to support a finding by the court that the preponderence establishes immunity at an SYG preliminary hearing, and certainly that the prosecution won't be able to prove murder 2 beyond a reasonable doubt unless there is some very significant evidence of which we are not yet aware. And that's true, imo, regardless of whether George is actually guilty or not. jmo

BBM

I have a problem believing John standing inside his lighted home looking out into the dark seeing the color of a sweater which has black arms which was probably unzipped and saying it was red.

I think it is far more likely he saw the color of the jacket after he got up and was walking around and the police officer told him the guy who was walking around was the one on bottom.

IMO
 
There are still only two people involved in the scuffle, and if Jonn saw the one on top dead in the grass and George is still alive, George would have to have been the one on the bottom yelling for help when John was outside, regardless of whether he was wearing a red jacket, fleece or sweater. Particularly since there's no dispute that Trayvon had on a gray sweatshirt with nothing red about it.

Personally, I think splitting hairs among the words sweater, jacket, fleece or whatever is just that - splitting hairs. The question is whether it was red and whether the person wearing it was on the bottom. Nonetheless, it still begs the question of how the altercation started in the first place and there, we have two witnesses (George or his family member and the gf) who agree that mildly confrontational words were exchanged. Imo, that's where the focus should be. How did both George and Travyon respond to those mildly confrontational words that both sides agree were spoken. Did Trayvon attack George because he was scared or po'd or both, or did George attack him and/or show him his weapon. Personally, I don't think we will ever know the answer to that question with certainty. That's why I think that there may be sufficient evidence to support a finding by the court that the preponderence establishes immunity at an SYG preliminary hearing, and certainly that the prosecution won't be able to prove murder 2 beyond a reasonable doubt unless there is some very significant evidence of which we are not yet aware. And that's true, imo, regardless of whether George is actually guilty or not. jmo

I think your right on the money. As I see it, neither of them were committing a crime until one lays a hand on the other. If that was GZ, then I think you have a case for manslaughter, possibly murder, but if it was TM that started the physical exchange, then GS acted in self defense, and potentially protected under SYG.

In the absence of any evidence of who touched the other first, you have to acquit.
 
BBM

I have a problem believing John standing inside his lighted home looking out into the dark seeing the color of a sweater which has black arms which was probably unzipped and saying it was red.

I think it is far more likely he saw the color of the jacket after he got up and was walking around and the police officer told him the guy who was walking around was the one on bottom.

IMO

I must have missed the part where John was inside. I was under the impression that he was outside and THEN went in and upstairs. I also missed the part where a police officer told John that the guy on the bottom was the guy walking around. I'm not gonna ask for links b/c I know that's a PITA, but if you have some handy.... :)
 
I think your right on the money. As I see it, neither of them were committing a crime until one lays a hand on the other. If that was GZ, then I think you have a case for manslaughter, possibly murder, but if it was TM that started the physical exchange, then GS acted in self defense, and potentially protected under SYG.

In the absence of any evidence of who touched the other, you have to accquit.

Truthfully we do not have a clue what there is for evidence in this case yet. It's not been released yet. The only thing we have is what the SPD has made sure to release in order to bolster their case.



~jmo~
 
It came from one of my previous posts. This is what we were talking about:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

GILBREATH: Did I?

O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

GILBREATH: No.

I read that just like the Orlando Sentinel article he mentioned. The test gave them no insight into who's voice it was.

But unless the FBI test reported something completely different then the Sentinel's test we know the voice is not Zimmerman's.
 
BBM

I have a problem believing John standing inside his lighted home looking out into the dark seeing the color of a sweater which has black arms which was probably unzipped and saying it was red.

I think it is far more likely he saw the color of the jacket after he got up and was walking around and the police officer told him the guy who was walking around was the one on bottom.

IMO

Yep, sort of like the lady who was on the phone with 911 so long and how they told her something to the effect if it makes you feel better the one screaming is the one who is alive. Baloney with a capitol B. Talk about leading a witness.


~jmo~
 
BBM

I have a problem believing John standing inside his lighted home looking out into the dark seeing the color of a sweater which has black arms which was probably unzipped and saying it was red.I think it is far more likely he saw the color of the jacket after he got up and was walking around and the police officer told him the guy who was walking around was the one on bottom.

IMO

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought John said he was outside and saw the altercation (the man in red on the bottom) and he went back inside through the patio door and locked it. He then ran upstairs to call 911 while he looked out the window. I will go listen once again........
 
I had missed until now that the FBI analyzed the scream and it was inconclusive or it was not TMs voice. I wonder if they used a sample of TMs voice in addition to GZs.

Interesting.

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?


GILBREATH: No.

This would be true because the only insight he has is that it was not GZ voice. They would need a copy of TM's voice in order to compare it to the tape of the screams. jmo
 
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