IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

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elmomom said:
Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
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Ha, good point. :rolleyes:
 
elmomom said:
Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
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Yes, I think they might be challenging CR. I've never believed his amnesia was from being hit ... but I do think he could be "foggy" from the effects of alcohol and something. I'm thinking he'd at least remember doing whatever made him foggy. Actually, MB did say in one interview (Herald Tribune?) that CR crashed because he'd been drinking. But from his perspective, he's probably better off not remembering more than that.

I don't blame them for taking the gloves off, however.
 
elmorejames said:
As a poster mentioned earlier... The Dahmer case.. If you recall, the 13 year old Asian boy who was walking in downtown Milwaukee naked could barely form sentences and was barely coherent. As Dahmer approached the officers, he informed them that his "boyfriend" had a bad habbit of doing this often.

The sad part, 15 minutes after the cops left the poor kid was murder and cut apart.

Even sadder, the cops were known to address over the police radio using the words, "gay" "*advertiser censored*" and "******s"

If only it wasn't 1992 and being in a gay relationship was acceptable, perhaps the cops would have looked further into the situation as opposed to ostracizing them for being gay and letting Dahmer get away with it!
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This is absolutely horrifying. That poor boy. When I read about it an earlier post, I hoped beyond hope that he was somehow spared. I should have known better. It does show that LE can sometimes make major mistakes, very sadly.
 
elmomom said:
Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
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What path would you have them take?
 
IMO The bartender that turned over the phone to JW should come forward and claim to LE exactly when they found the phone. With all the conspiracy regarding the phone, there's possibility the bartender who had the phone was the same bartender that made the drinks that some people think CR and LS could have had spiked. While I don't think both their drinks were spiked, who knows if the phone was really left there, or given to the bartender later.

We don't know anything about that bartender, if they even went through the phone, and when they responded to JW that the phone was left. Was in during business hours before the bar closed, was it after closing, was it early the next day?

The phone could have never been in her possession after leaving Smallwood at 12:16am. She may have never left it at Kilroy's by mistake. Could have been placed there later. We don't know...

Was it a guy or a girl that responded to JW and met him to hand over the phone. Also is it possible to throw the phone/flip flops over a fence to the alleged sand area?
 
Jupiter812 said:
What path would you have them take?
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I think many people believe they should be trying to use sugar rather than vinegar. Be nice, open, politely ask for help, emotional non-accusatory pleas, and basically try to make them feel comfortable and safe offering up information.

However, I have been watching the case basically from Day 1 and they did that at first. Months have passed-no one has come forward. They are desperate. Maybe throwing a little pressure on people will make something happen.

I am still hoping they get lucky and somehow find some piece of evidence that blows everything wide open.
 
I thought CR took a polygraph (and submitted DNA too for that matter)??
 
Gabby66 said:
IMO they played a real trump card by waiting until the kids all returned to school, before making that announcement. This keeps the suspicion alive and well, and clouds opinions of friends. Had this statement been made over the summer, some students wouldn't have heard about it and others would have forgotten. This may get some kids talking.

I believe that LE must suspect these boys too. I think that they've surely found some little sort of evidence (maybe even in one of the apartments) which is enough to cause suspicion, but not enough to convict. Perhaps that's why they went to the landfill - to get the only thing left that they needed for a conviction?

IF one or more of these boys is guilty, their return to school tells me that their parents do not believe their son is involved (to a guilty level). If I thought that my kid hidden a body, there's no way in H*LL I'd send him back to school. An education costs a LOT of money. I hate to say this but practically speaking, if my son was likely facing prison time, I wouldn't be worrying about a college degree. Of course his attorney probably said, "carry on as normal". However "Normal" does not include spending thousands more on school, spending thousands on a defense attorney, then spending the rest of your life in prison. College education is WAY important to our family, but I guess I'm a bit too practical also. If these kids have snowed their parents, I have a strong feeling they aren't going to crack. I think I'd have been really drilling my kid about this over the summer.....probably to the point where he'd have admitted to something he didn't even do, just to shut me up. :floorlaugh:
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BBM

Just wanted to say your post tickled me. I know this thread is a serious matter, but sometimes a little levity is a good thing.

I can just picture myself (also a college parent) saying "It'll be OK, you can finish your degree in prison! " and me thinking "and I won't have to pay for it". :D

I guess that makes me a bad person.:innocent:

(OT, but we've all heard about people commiting crimes so they can get medical care, wonder if that's been used for education yet? With the skyrocketing costs? aye yai yai!)
 
akh said:
I thought CR took a polygraph (and submitted DNA too for that matter)??
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I thought all of the POIs had except for JR who took a private one and not a LE one. That comment is curious to me-wouldn't the parents know if he had taken and passed one??
 
Jupiter812 said:
What path would you have them take?
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Darcyline said:
I think many people believe they should be trying to use sugar rather than vinegar. Be nice, open, politely ask for help, emotional non-accusatory pleas, and basically try to make them feel comfortable and safe offering up information.

However, I have been watching the case basically from Day 1 and they did that at first. Months have passed-no one has come forward. They are desperate. Maybe throwing a little pressure on people will make something happen.

I am still hoping they get lucky and somehow find some piece of evidence that blows everything wide open.
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I think it's time to talk direct about what they want (Lauren's remains) and to name names. Seeking information about drug use is just going to increase the same pressure that led the POIs to hide the body in the first place, and I don't think it will give them what they really are after.
I know I am in the minority here, and maybe the Spierers are more like you all than they are like me, but to me justice is quite secondary to having Lauren's remains given the burial that she deserves. And in fact, if Lauren did die of an OD, or a bad combo of pre-existing medical issues and substance abuse, I have a really hard time imagining what I think would be justice in this case. I just don't know.
So I think connecting with the POIs either publicly, or through the lawyers to directly arrange Lauren's homecoming would be the path I would choose, rather than trying to pull information about the activities of the night.

jmho, and I know many of you may disagree intensely.
 
imkeylime said:
Yes, I think the might be challenging CR. I've never believed his amnesia was from being hit ... but I do think he could be "foggy" from the effects of alcohol and something. I'm thinking he'd at least remember doing whatever made him foggy. Actually, MB did say in one interview (Herald Tribune?) that CR crashed because he'd been drinking. But from his perspective, he's probably better off not remembering more than that.

I don't blame them for taking the gloves off, however.
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MB or his lawyers account has always seamed pretty absurd to me.Your roommate brings a girl home a 3 in the morning and you are going to put him to bed and send the girl on her way?What is this guy a priest.
 
elmomom said:
Why, of all things, focus on the phone call? Why not focus on the claim that she left around 4:30 under her own power?
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Maybe because they are using that as "proof" she was alive and well that late and her parents are doubtful? I don't know...
 
plaidmom said:
BBM

Just wanted to say your post tickled me. I know this thread is a serious matter, but sometimes a little levity is a good thing.

I can just picture myself (also a college parent) saying "It'll be OK, you can finish your degree in prison! " and me thinking "and I won't have to pay for it". :D

I guess that makes me a bad person.:innocent:

(OT, but we've all heard about people commiting crimes so they can get medical care, wonder if that's been used for education yet? With the skyrocketing costs? aye yai yai!)
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Ha Ha. I'm glad to have brought you some humor. I tend to be a very sarcastic person, in a fun-loving way. But in all seriousness, this would be very hard for any parent to face, and perhaps it's possible that some parents DO suspect their son but imagine if they were wrong? I just think I would have badgered my son to death by now, to the point that I'd know the truth by the time school started again. Something like this would have been eating me up....
 
Elmomom-I feel like that has already been done though-that they admitted they know it was probably just a horrible accident, didn't care, and tried to reach out to some of the kids privately and publicly and were shut down. What would you do if that method didn't work? I agree, but I feel like the parents did do that and this is where they are left after months of not getting anywhere with it :( I think, emotionally, they are breaking down and this is the result. I am not pretending like I wouldn't be the same way if my child had been gone for this long and any attempt I made to get her body back was met with lawyers telling me to screw off.
 
Darcyline said:
I thought all of the POIs had except for JR who took a private one and not a LE one. That comment is curious to me-wouldn't the parents know if he had taken and passed one??
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Perhaps that's what JR meant when he said he talks to them privately. :floorlaugh:
 
elmorejames said:
IMO The bartender that turned over the phone to JW should come forward and claim to LE exactly when they found the phone. With all the conspiracy regarding the phone, there's possibility the bartender who had the phone was the same bartender that made the drinks that some people think CR and LS could have had spiked. While I don't think both their drinks were spiked, who knows if the phone was really left there, or given to the bartender later.
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The bartender would not necessarily be the one who spiked the drinks, but most likely the perp would have to be closely associated with the bar; whether some other employee or former employee or a "regular" who goes there for more than social purposes. He likely got cooperation from someone working there that night.

CR may not know what was in the drink. His claim to amnesia may be true. Certainly there are substances potent enough to destroy someone's memory. Maybe he passed out at 5 North after MB "put him to bed." He wasn't conscious or awake when LS either left his place or suffered a medical crisis.

But if the "spiked drink" theory is true, it points to a professional criminal, not some student playing a joke, and perhaps to organized crime, something larger and more sinister than just a local group.

Would someone want to attack CR/JR so badly that they would harm LS as an apparent gf/friend? OR could LS have been terrified of such a possibility?

Maybe between 12:15 am and 2:15 am, LS went to JR's with DR, but then she was bored of watching the game, and decided to tag along as CR made his rounds collecting money on his newspaper route. Having a girl with him would attract less attention esp. so late at night. Of course, he warned her to pull the battery from her cell phone, since -- you just never know what might happen -- After a while, they decided to stop in at the bar. One of the other newspaper carriers was there, and somehow he knew that CR had a lot of money with him.

But who was the other newspaper carrier working for?
 
Darcyline said:
I feel like that has already been done though-that they admitted they know it was probably just a horrible accident, didn't care, and tried to reach out to some of the kids privately and publicly and were shut down. What would you do if that method didn't work? I agree, but I feel like the parents did do that and this is where they are left after months of not getting anywhere with it :( I think, emotionally, they are breaking down and this is the result. I am not pretending like I wouldn't be the same way if my child had been gone for this long and any attempt I made to get her body back was met with lawyers telling me to screw off.
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The ONLY evidence that they ever "tried" this course is all just rumors that got woven into entire sagas... personally I am not at all convinced that any effort other than some very indirect comments was ever undertaken.
What we imagine may be quite different than what has actually transpired. I myself have thought all along that the Spierers seemed to be strictly adhering to the wishes of the BPD from the early days, and certainly, directly dealing with the POIs is going to be against the wishes of the BPD.
 
Walker, Why do you say that it points to a professional criminal? (Not challenging your idea - just asking.)
 
akh said:
I thought CR took a polygraph (and submitted DNA too for that matter)??
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If CR took a polygraph, I would have expected his lawyer to say so, and I don't believe he ever did.
 
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