Weekend Discussion Thread 04/27-30/2012
- Thread starter SoSueMe
- Start date
- Status
I had no idea that if the defense called witnesses they could not do a closing argument. That is very different from here in the States, where it is expected that the defense will call witnesses and present a closing argument.
Wow. That makes it hard for the defense, in my opinion.
Salem
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/30/19698706.html
Mac is stating his/her opinion. In his/her opinion, he/she believes for a fact......
That's okay. We all get to take the evidence and infer from it what it tells us, individually.
Salem
Bravo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 20,354
- Reaction score
- 64,574
Truly. It does make for a tough Defense. Especially when the Crown has presented a strong case. It will be interesting to see what hand they play tomorrow.
I believe they still get to make closing arguments, only the crown will get the last word. If the defence does not present evidence, they go last.
LadyL
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2009
- Messages
- 26,653
- Reaction score
- 69,197
[bbm]
there is no justification, period
I don't think he was 'horrified' by any of TLM's actions but even if he was, he nullified his supposed innocence by not putting the battery back in his phone and calling 911
his goose is cooked IMO
I would disagree with this, actually. They met, they were intimate that same night, when she didn't call him, he went to find her and the rest is history. Yes he was standoffish with her when it suited HIM and he was very loving with her when it suited HIM and, in my opinion it was all done to make sure she would do what HE wanted.
If he wanted nothing at all to do with her why did he hold hands with her? Why did he show off his muscles and crack her back? Why was he playful with her? I certainly can believe his behavior was all a lie, I guess it is the reason for the lie that I disagree with - I don't think it was because he didn't want anything to do with her, I think it was because he wanted to maintain control over her.
The difference, as I see it, between MR and TLM is that TLM's anger is honest. She is a very angry individual. She puts that out there and you can see it. She talks big and bad and she is pretty rough, in all honesty, but, in my opinion it is anger that drives her.
What about MR? In my opinion, he is sneaky, secretive, dishonest, a user and abuser and you can't tell what drives him - apparently it is not good old fashioned anger - his problem is deeper and he is clever in his attempts to hide it and play off it at the same time. In my opinion - he is not the kind of person I would ever want to meet. However, TLM doesn't scare me at all. I am horrified by her, but I'm not afraid of her, if that makes any sense......
Salem
"If a defence lawyer decides not to call his client, he's faced with another difficult choice. By calling any witness, the defence loses the right to give closing arguments after the Crown"
I think that there's an advantage to having the last word. If the defence presents witnesses, then the crown has the last word.
"Closing arguments:
Prosecution closing argument. The prosecution makes its closing argument, summarizing the evidence as the prosecution sees it, and explaining why the jury should render a guilty verdict.
Defense closing argument. The defense makes its closing argument, summarizing the evidence as the defense sees it, and explaining why the jury should render a not guilty verdict--or at least a guilty verdict on a lesser charge.
Section 651 determines who closes first. If defense presents evidence or the defendant testifies, then defense closes first."
http://www.julianhermida.com/polnotesoverview.htm
Thank you Otto! So the defense doesn't give up the ability to close - just the order in which it happens. Okay - got it! Thanks!
Salem
Salem I'm not sure if this is correct but I took that statement to mean that the defence can make a closing statement but just not last meaning the have to go first...could be wrong and I stand corrected if so... JMO
Jezbel
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2011
- Messages
- 420
- Reaction score
- 4
Bravo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 20,354
- Reaction score
- 64,574
Bouncing off Salem's post. It makes perfect sense. Sense of a something driven we struggle to comprehend. TLM confessed as she is the weaker of the pair. Yes driven by anger and intense anger. The weaker of a pr always confesses. No surprise she is female despite her level of violence. MJR yes far more to fear. No surprise or shock to me to see him in the Courtroom. He was truly bored and struggled at times to stay awake.
JMO:
well I am a female and after reading about TLM and her lifestyle and what she has done and is capable of... I know who I would be afraid of and that would even be in broad daylight... I don't equate her with "weaker sex" because I have never believed that a woman is the weaker sex (well maybe when it comes to putting out the garbage or changing a tire)..MR I have not heard anything about him being a violent person only somewhat of a con artist and yes a liar so I could handle that no problem at all because I don't think he could hurt me physically. and that would be my fear....JMO
No worries - THMCO also answered, but I didn't see his/her post right away. All three answered the same though, so I feel pretty confident I had it wrong and you guys are right. Defense will get to close, the only thing that will change is the order of the closing, depending on whether there are witnesses or not.
Thanks everybody
!Salem
Bravo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 20,354
- Reaction score
- 64,574
I am Female as well. I think u are missing the point that TLM is driven from a rage. A sick rage. I was not equating her to the weaker sex cuz she was Female. I was referencing her as the weaker since she was the one to confess. Yes TLM might be the one one should fear crossing a street or in a dark alley. Oh yes Rafferty with his clean record would just be one you need to worry about in a relationship or if he was to babysit your children correct?
swedie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 5,472
- Reaction score
- 279
I know that an expert witness can be called upon by both sides, but I'm not positive about other witnesses. I cannot see why not. It may not work out in the defense's best interest and it is a rarity. The witness could be classified as a hostile witness but they my shed light on further testimony. HTH and MOO.
Bravo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 20,354
- Reaction score
- 64,574
As open minded as i can be at the end of the day I am to believe there might be a justifiable Defense for MJR???? I think not. There were 2 people in that car. That day. That day that ended up with 3. Miles away from home with an 8 year old girl. Horrific injuries and nude from the waist down. Dead and cast away. And some choose to believe only one involved???
TLM strikes me as the type that you would see coming, whereas MR seems like the kind that would sneak up behind you.
- Status